Heritability of cribbing?

[NancyM]

I’m so glad to see all this study on cribbing finally supporting what I have believed for years. What is heritable is personality, and the potential to have the requirement to acquire a repetitive habit which develops an addiction to happy chemicals (endorphins) in the brain to deal with whatever situation a horse happens to see as “stress” in his life. Different things are “stress” for different horses, but some of the stress triggers are pain, illness, living conditions, or training that they may find to be confusing. Some of these things are able to be foreseen and avoided for a horse, sometimes not. “Stress” and a trigger for the start of cribbing for a competitive horse who is susceptible may be taking him OUT of training, and turning him out in a field. Other horses, it may be taking him out of his field and away from his family, and putting him in a stall. During a racing career, there are many opportunities for stress… a change in living, being moved from barn to barn with different care, and pain (often sore shins from bone remodeling as a youngster, or racing injuries during the race career) and sickness and fever (colds and flu infecting young horses without adequate immunity). Many of these issues are also present in show barns too.

When we breed horses who have been carefully selected as high level sport athletes, we are selecting horses who feel stress. They are horses who have a huge drive, and work ethic, to win. They are competitive horses. Many of them are sensitive, they CARE about hitting that rail, or winning that race, or doing their job to the very best of their ability. If they didn’t feel that way about their work, they may not be as successful as athletes. They may worry about things more than less competitive horses, they often tend to be “over achievers”. That’s why they have been such successful athletes, and why we like them as breeding stock Not all of them may be cribbers, but a higher percentage of them may have the potential to be effected by stress, and may need a crutch to get through the stresses of life, and become addicts. Horses who are not high level athletes may also be cribbers. They have the same drive to excel, to succeed, but their job may be pulling a milk cart through the streets. But they do a really good job at this, and stress about it just like an athlete does.

Putting a cribbing strap on a horse may physically remove the behavior (and may be useful for some specific reason), but it doesn’t mean that the addiction is gone. The horse is simply separated from his addiction, which in itself can be a stress. If a horse is a potential addict, and is put under the stress that is the potential trigger for the addiction, he will figure out how to crib. If there is another horse already doing the behavior, he may learn it a bit easier if he watches, but he is going to figure it out himself anyway, without help. So the trigger is the stress, not watching another horse.

Over the last fifty years, I have owned and trained a number of cribbers. Some have started cribbing in my care, for one reason or another. After the fact, sometimes a reason may be assigned as the trigger. Occasionally, a horse cribs for a while, and stops on his own (but not often!). When a person starts to understand the issues with dealing with an addict, and can start to understand stresses as triggers, one starts to understand a cribber, and the revulsion and irritation that some owners feel about the behavior may recede. As addictions go, there are far worse among our own human population. I would rather deal with a cribber in my life than many of the addictions that one sees in the human population. Probably 50 % of the extremely successful horses in race and showjumping training I have worked with have been cribbers. So while I am never “happy” that a horse starts to crib, I do understand that it is a crutch for him/her, to help him/her through life, and the stresses they feel.

So OP, that is my take on it. Sorry that your foal has started to crib. He feels the need for a crutch, he needs help to feel better about something he sees as stressful in his life. Sometimes, it is “life itself” that a being sees as stressful. He has found this crutch to help him. Whether he will be the superstar athlete or not, I can’t say. But he is a sensitive guy, just like his mother is. I’ve used a number of cribbers as broodmares, and have never had one of their foals become a cribber in the time I have owned them (perhaps they started later in life). I’ve used non cribbing mares as broodmares, and some of their foals have become cribbers. But most of them have the potential to be cribbers, if they see their stress trigger, whatever that may be.

This susceptibility to stress is the link to ulcers that we often see in both horses and humans. Cribbers are “marked” as being susceptible to stress, by definition. Non cribbers may also develop ulcers from stress, but have not seen their trigger to start to crib. The pain of the ulcers may be the trigger.

[danacat]

@NancyM

I’m so glad to see all this study on cribbing finally supporting what I have believed for years. What is heritable is personality, and the potential to have the requirement to acquire a repetitive habit which develops an addiction to happy chemicals (endorphins) in the brain to deal with whatever situation a horse happens to see as “stress” in his life. I do understand that it is a crutch for him/her, to help him/her through life, and the stresses they feel.

So OP, that is my take on it. Sorry that your foal has started to crib. He feels the need for a crutch, he needs help to feel better about something he sees as stressful in his life. Sometimes, it is “life itself” that a being sees as stressful.

So what you’re saying is that (IYO + study results) horses are genetically born with a personality that dictates not only what their stress factors are, but also ‘how’ they will deal with this stress which can include just being alive?

My translation of that (and I’m not being argumentative, correct me if I’m wrong) is that cribbing as you interpret it,can be the result of anything and everything – that stress isn’t really identifyable to us – that only the horse knows, either on a subconscious or conscious level what that stress is… and that the knowing is hereditary?

I’m just trying to understand what you said.

[Simkie]

@Feathered_Feet curious where ocd behaviors lie on the innate/learned line. That seems like a good parallel to a horse cribbing. Or nail biting?

My personal guess on innate/learned with regard to cribbing is that it’s innate…the horse is born with the tool “cribbing” as a fully formed action in the tool box. Some horses with the tool may never reach for it and never crib. But others due to environment or nutrition or whatever will begin cribbing, but start from the initial moment with the fully formed cribbing action. Most horses don’t have the tool “cribbing” in their tool box at all and will never crib regardless of circumstance. I have absolutely nothing but my own experiences and observations to support that and could be totally wrong :lol:

Also, it’s my understanding that smiling and laughing are not innate. Children raised with no human interaction (as in some horrific neglect cases) do neither. Aren’t these learned, and learned from others via mimicry?

[noreins]

@danacat

My translation of that (and I’m not being argumentative, correct me if I’m wrong) is that cribbing as you interpret it,can be the result of anything and everything – that stress isn’t really identifyable to us – that only the horse knows, either on a subconscious or conscious level what that stress is… and that the knowing is hereditary?

Not NancyM, but what I associated with her post was anxiety and how some anxious people have stereotypys similar to cribbing - I pick my nail polish off when stressed out. People with anxiety can be high-achievers (and often, high performance and anxiety can have a hand-in-hand relationship, though I will not venture to guess which causes which), and the stressors in their lives will be different than stressors in the average person.

Maybe our horses crib because it’s their version of nail polish picking, or skin picking, or pen-clicking - human versions of annoying habits with no particular benefit, but emerge when under stress.

That said, the most prolific cribber I know was NOT careful and a little too laid-back for her own good. But I only knew her after the track - maybe the track was her stressor, and the habit was already too ingrained once she retired.

[GoodTimes]

I’ve got one who cribs on buckets in his stall. I’ve never seen him crib on a fence or stall door, etc. I’ve never seen him crib outside or at a show.
This horse is mouthy and smart, he’s a professional escape artist when he’s not being my 3’6" hunter, he plays with anything he can put in his mouth, and does this air pawing thing with his right front. I believe this horse was probably genetically predisposed to cribbing. As a young horse he was always sleeping. Once he aged out of that he started to develop more of an attitude and had a lot more energy. The first time I saw him crib was when he was 5. I was standing outside his stall where he couldn’t reach me, but was begging for attention, and all of a sudden I heard that awful cribbing sound. I immediately took him out of his stall and starting brushing him.
With this horse it seems to be a boredom thing. He won’t crib if there’s hay in front of him. He won’t crib at a show where there’s lots going on, etc. It seems to be a “hey, I’m bored, I don’t know what to do with myself, let me outside”.
While I would love to have him on outdoor board again, there isn’t anyone in this area with an indoor that offers it. Instead I’m forced to try lots of toys to keep him entertained.

He was never at a barn with a cribber until this year, so he definitely didn’t learn it by observation. I kind of equate him to someone who eats when they’re bored, or a smoker who only smokes after they eat, but not when they’re busy, etc.

[Feathered_Feet]

@Simkie

@Feathered_Feet curious where ocd behaviors lie on the innate/learned line. That seems like a good parallel to a horse cribbing. Or nail biting?

My personal guess on innate/learned with regard to cribbing is that it’s innate…the horse is born with the tool “cribbing” as a fully formed action in the tool box. Some horses with the tool may never reach for it and never crib. But others due to environment or nutrition or whatever will begin cribbing, but start from the initial moment with the fully formed cribbing action. Most horses don’t have the tool “cribbing” in their tool box at all and will never crib regardless of circumstance. I have absolutely nothing but my own experiences and observations to support that and could be totally wrong :lol:

Also, it’s my understanding that smiling and laughing are not innate. Children raised with no human interaction (as in some horrific neglect cases) do neither. Aren’t these learned, and learned from others via mimicry?

Definitely off topic, but since it’s such an interesting topic, one of the ways scientist identify what is innate versus learned is whether it’s universal across all cultures, with the assumption that at least SOME culture somewhere will differ if XX behavior under scrutiny is not innate. For instance, that’s how we’ve identified a handful of emotions as innate - every culture seems to display happiness by smiling, anger via a furrowed brow, etc. (though I think some of this research is currently being re-examined). Momentary smiling when happy/content is universal (though prolonged, sustained general smiling differs in meaning across cultures), so most scientists would classify it as innate (if not, surely by chance some culture somewhere would differ in their expression of contentment). Also, blind babies and blind children (and adults) smile, and normo-visual babies start to smile at ages that some scientists think are too young to be due to mimicry.

Also I’m curious about the cases of children raised with no interaction - do they not smile or laugh because they don’t know how/haven’t learned that that’s an expression of happiness/contentedness? Or because such situations rarely provide a reason to do so? If the former, I suspect that would certainly contradict a fair bit of science out there (again with the caveat that I don’t study this field - this is mostly based on what I picked up in grad school!).