[QUOTE=Skyedragon;7073587]
I think a common misconception about the changeable gullet system is that it only changes the shape of the front of the saddle. It doesn’t change the shape of the tree. Signs of bridging are always the first thing I check on a saddle.[/QUOTE]
I wasn’t talking about saddles with a changeable gullet; there are high-end saddles that allow you to actually change the tree size. That was the idea I was getting from 3S’s post… Not something along the lines of a Wintec.
After reading some more on this forums, I think I am going to do a total 180 and contact Trumbull in the morning about Thorowgood or Kent and Masters. I just spent the last 15 minutes watching Kent and Masters’ promotional video and really liked what I saw. The older Thorowgoods I always thought looked like junk, but the newer ones look quite nice. Thinking the cob might be a good compromise for the two draft crosses. Wide for my lease gelding with the option of going wider while I ride my friend’s mare and in the future should I buy her.
I have a Kent and Masters dressage saddle and REALLY love it. The first one they sent me actually was from a bad dye lot and had serious rubs almost immediately where the stirrup leathers hung. So…they sent me a whole new saddle! They were super to work with and I love love the balance, feel, comfort of this saddle and even though it does have changeable gullets, the tree points are much longer so I don’t have the pressure point issues I did with the Wintec types.
I rode in a friend’s Kent and Masters jumping saddle and really liked it – comfortable and balanced. I hunted in it so was riding for quite a long time.
I contacted Trumbull about both saddles. I have read a lot of good things about the Kent and Masters. The only thing that concerns me is that a few people complained about a wide twist. Can anybody confirm that? Wide twists and my bad pelvis do not get along.
[QUOTE=arabiansrock;7073166]
I have an HDR Austal, and am very happy with it. Did not get to sit in the buffalo one, but have heard it is nice. But it depends what kind of seat you like. I have short legs and needed the more forward balance point of hte Austal to get my legs in the right place.
Also, I have two saddles that are similar to the K&M. One is a thorowgood T4 and one is a Hastilow concept. Very comfortable tree, tends to be very adjustable, you pick conformation specific tree. The seat is not deep, is very open. Haven’t seen the K&M to be able to comment on leather quality.[/QUOTE]
I have a Thorowgood T6 dressage saddle. took a few rides to adjust to it, as it seems to have a wide twist. but once i rode in it a few times, all is good! We bought the 11 year old a Kent and Masters general purpose saddle. The horse is very cob like in his construction-wide shoulders and withers, flat back. add to the mix that 8 years ago he broke OFF the long spines off four vertebra in a trailer accident…he can be a challenge to fit (and no, he’s never ever been back sore since. i’m paranoid about saddle fit). I am really really pleased with the K&M. Annette did a great job of fitting, and I believe it’s good value for the money.
i should correct that the 11 year old is my son. the horse is 14. I like the K&M so much, that i am going to be selling/ebaying the thorowgood and the beval to fund the purchase of a K&M all purpose for myself.
The KM has a moderate twist. I prefer a narrow twist but have ridden quite a bit in them and found it fine. The seat is open so one is not “stuck” in a spot.
[QUOTE=twoxover;7074258]
i should correct that the 11 year old is my son. the horse is 14. I like the K&M so much, that i am going to be selling/ebaying the thorowgood and the beval to fund the purchase of a K&M all purpose for myself.[/QUOTE]
Is your Thorowgood the cob version? Let me know if you decide to sell.
When I first got my new K&M, yes, it felt very wide, but once it broke in and the wool settled, it felt normal again. So if it feels bit funny at first, don’t freak out and see if you can ride in a demo or used one that is already settled a bit.
I have seen some K&Ms with awful looking leather. I have seen a photo of two now with yummy looking leather. I’d either try to buy one “in the flesh” rather than order OR I’d just double super triple confirm that the leather will be ok if you order one. Aside from the few I saw with bad leather, I have nothing but positive things to say about the K&M-- but the ones I saw with bad leather made a bad impression on me.
Saw this Fairfax on ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fairfax-Dressage-Saddle-w-Gullet-Exchange-/161061840578?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item258008a6c2#ht_725wt_1390
Looks to be in good shape other than the color on the cantle and back of the panels seems a bit off. Vxf, is that what you were talking about with the bad leather?
I have seen much much much worse. I saw one where literally chunks of color were coming off on the flap. I’m not talking normal wear/rubbing but a noticeable problem with the leather.
Look at the Kent and Masters S-Series, for some reason I thought they had a less wide twist, though I could be mistaken.
[QUOTE=js;7074450]
Look at the Kent and Masters S-Series, for some reason I thought they had a less wide twist, though I could be mistaken.[/QUOTE]
I am not sure how I feel about the external block though. I have tried three saddles now with external blocks and all three times I had to have my stirrups soooo long to keep my knees off the large blocks that I was standing on my tippy toes. Maybe I am doing something wrong?
Is Hastilow the same thing as Farifax/KM/Thorowgood? http://www.ebay.com/itm/2012-Hastilow-Concept-Flexibility-Dressage-Saddle-/190866234697?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2c70839d49#ht_612wt_1369 looks and sounds a lot a like.
They’re built on the same tree, but no, they’re not exactly the same thing.
Why not call the expert on all these brands? Annette Gavin at www.hastilowusa.com. She’s an excellent fitter with Society of Master Saddlers credentials, and she reps for Thorowgood, Hastilow, and Kent and Masters (among other brands). She also knows plenty about Fairfax. She can answer all of your questions.
As for the knee block issue, it’s hard to say what’s going on without seeing the evidence. But here’s some common reasons that that happens:
–Riding in a too-small seat size or a seat architecture that shoves you toward the front of the saddle, which means that your leg is jammed up against the knee block more than it might be in a saddle that’s effectively sized for you.
–Not yet having an effective enough dressage position to ride with your pelvis open and ride with your leg straighter/further back. I see this a lot from eventers or hunter converts: they’re sitting in a dressage saddle like it’s a jump saddle. I’m not criticizing, just saying that this happens a lot, and a big knee block can be incompatible with it. Ironically, I occasionally meet a hunter/eventer convert who LIKES having their jump-saddle-esque leg jammed up against a huge dressage block; it makes them feel secure.
–Even if the saddle fits your body beautifully and you’ve got an awesome dressage position, the block’s shape/placement might just be incompatible with your body shape. This definitely happens. Heck, even if the block fits you well, it might just not be your personal taste or style. I find that if the block fits you well, it practically disappears and you don’t notice it–but even so, some riders prefer the freedom of a more open flap with less blocking.
That said, I’m not sure why you’re worried about this with a Kent and Masters saddle. Some of the have external blocks, but others don’t. Their Moveable Block model is very popular because the blocks are velcro and they’re under the flap, so you can move them (or totally remove them) as you please.
I emailed Trumbull since they carry KM and Thorowgood. They had me send pictures and fill out their saddle survey and I am now waiting (impatiently) to hear back. I may contact Annette, but I don’t want to get too many cooks in the kitchen just yet. Her website is what actually turned me on to KM, plus her price is $200 cheaper than Trumbull.
This will be my first dressage saddle that I have had in years. I have been riding pretty much exclusively in my collegiate diploma for the past two years. Monday when I tried the Larissa I thought that maybe it was a case of not having enough of the right dressage leg muscles/balance. When the Wintec Pro with the countour block first came out I tried it and ran into a similiar discomfort, same with the Toulouse Verona about the same time.
Ebay is a dangerous thing!
I like the look and price of this Schleese, plus I honestly thought I would never be able to afford one. May give them a call about it. How do these saddles fit the wide and flat types?
[QUOTE=Skyedragon;7074318]
Is your Thorowgood the cob version? Let me know if you decide to sell.[/QUOTE]
it is the cob version. wide/xwide tree. but, I should tell you that it is one with the non adjustable gullet bars. it’s an 18" seat. if you are interested, let me know…
Fairfax is what K&M used to be.
vx, what you saw are probably ones from the bad leather lot that K&M had. If it was, all the owners had to do was contact the company and K&M would have taken care of it. That lot was probably about a year or so ago and they got it from a bad supplier. It looked fine till you started using it. But again, company made good on their warranty.
As for external blocks, that can just be a person thing. I hate them, I think they look bad, and I find them extremely uncomfortable. I find others who love them, so there ya go, ha.
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