Hock spur - inject or cut our losses?

[Home_Again_Farm]

If the horse has a badly fitting saddle on, saddle issues can show up on the longe, not just under saddle. In fact some horses will buck on the longe and never buck under saddle, without any saddle problems.

A good dose of bute may be a less expensive way to see if pain is causing the bucking. However, if you don’t get a definitive answer with the bute, I’d recommend shooting some new xrays and doing some new flexions. I’d also recommend you use a different vet (one that specializes in lameness) if you go that route.

[poltroon]

I know lots of horses that buck on the longe that will not under saddle. If you’re worried about coming off, 30 days with a trainer you trust would seem in order. One thing about the longe line is that circles are quite a bit smaller and create torque… most people don’t even make a 20m circle on a longe line, especially not with a green horse.

I don’t know any horses that have been used significantly for dressage or jumping that don’t have some sort of bone spur in the hock. Not any. If you think you do, most likely that horse hasn’t been x-rayed recently. (Maybe vets out there see some.) They are not career ending or even limiting in most cases, and the joint injections, if warranted, are a huge step forward and very useful.

[Dalemma]

[QUOTE=Ysabel;6257325]
Thanks you have all been very helpful and have made me feel a lot better.

It is really hard to feel comfortable having a different opinion then a vet when you don’t know that much about the condition. Since I have no knowledge of hock spurs other than what little I have been able to find online it was very easy for the vet to make me feel hopeless. On one hand you don’t want to be that annoying client that always thinks they know better than the vet, on the other hand I do realize that vets are just people and not infallible.

I will will try a loading dose of bute on him tonight and see what happens.

What worries me about the bucking is the way he is bucking - I expect silliness and/or stubbornness in a youngster so I am not surprised to see bucking in the canter - but when he bucks he is kicking out violently and tucking his tail between his legs - he just looks very irritated and worried. That makes me think pain somewhere so the bute idea may be able to confirm that for me.

I don’t think it is saddle fit since he is doing in on the lunge - I don’t dare to try and canter him under saddle if he is that bad on a lung line (I would come off for sure - and I don’t bounce like I use to). :winkgrin: I have been trying to do lots of trot work under saddle in the hopes that it was a balance issue and the trot work would strengthen him and the trot has improved A LOT over the past few months.[/QUOTE]

I have a horse that was thought to be having hock issues …my vet always suggest a run of at least fives day minimum before drawing any conclusions and prefers to go to 10 days.

Dalemma

[ljcfoh]

[QUOTE=stolensilver;6256703]
Let’s put some logic into this situation. You have a young horse with a minor x ray finding who also bucks when going into right canter.

The question is are these two things linked? If they are linked then the cause would be pain. So the answer, surely, is to aim to remove the possibility of pain and see if the horse’s behaviour changes.

The simplest way to do this is to give your horse a loading dose of Bute. It’s cheap and effective. If your horse stops bucking then you know the cause of the behaviour is pain although you don’t know where that pain is coming from but it would then make sense to have a vet out and do nerve blocks in the horse’s leg to establish the area that is sore.

IMO jumping to the conclusion that a minor x ray change =pain = misbehaviour = euthanise is madness! Give the horse a chance.

I also think that jumping straight to hock injections is jumping to conclusions. You have to find out if the bucking (which is the problem. If the horse was not bucking you would not have a problem, would you?) is pain related or behavioural.

The logical path to follow is Bute then reassess under saddle.
If no improvement send the horse away for reschooling.
If there is improvement call your vet for a full lameness work up with nerve blocks.

I’d be very surprised if this is anything more than a schooling issue.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree and this definitely needs some logic! Good luck OP, I think you are going to fine and you should completely remove euthanasia for this reason off the table.

[ljcfoh]

[QUOTE=Ysabel;6257325]
Thanks you have all been very helpful and have made me feel a lot better.

It is really hard to feel comfortable having a different opinion then a vet when you don’t know that much about the condition. Since I have no knowledge of hock spurs other than what little I have been able to find online it was very easy for the vet to make me feel hopeless. On one hand you don’t want to be that annoying client that always thinks they know better than the vet, on the other hand I do realize that vets are just people and not infallible.

I will will try a loading dose of bute on him tonight and see what happens.

What worries me about the bucking is the way he is bucking - I expect silliness and/or stubbornness in a youngster so I am not surprised to see bucking in the canter - but when he bucks he is kicking out violently and tucking his tail between his legs - he just looks very irritated and worried. That makes me think pain somewhere so the bute idea may be able to confirm that for me.

I don’t think it is saddle fit since he is doing in on the lunge - I don’t dare to try and canter him under saddle if he is that bad on a lung line (I would come off for sure - and I don’t bounce like I use to). :winkgrin: I have been trying to do lots of trot work under saddle in the hopes that it was a balance issue and the trot work would strengthen him and the trot has improved A LOT over the past few months.[/QUOTE]

Ok, just so you know that same 13 year old I mentioned before? Bucks like crazy on the lunge – with all kinds of contortions. But that is silliness and he does do it primarily in one direction. But also, if the hock spurs are bothering your horse it would not likely only be at the canter. If they bothered him that much he would be at least stiff at the trot if not outright lame.

Listen to the suggestion above to do a course of bute not just one day before determining if it is having any effect.

[tryintogethere]

Sent you a PM

[szipi]

Serious?

I have had a lot of similar experiences with PPEs of young horses. The most likely your horse’s spur is just an osteophyte and will not be a problem now, if ever. In most cases it’s not arthritis, its just something that’s there - and often times there’s no interference with the joint itself.
In one of these cases, when the spur was really huge and the buyer initially backed off, the lameness specialist ultrasounded the hock and revealed that there’s synovial fluid between the joint space and the spur itself - suggesting that the oteofication is OUTSIDE the joint. Eventually the horse was sold to the same buyer. Now, 4 years later, the horse is 8 years old and equally successful in eventing and in dressage. The owner never had to inject the hock.

If the horse is fine on flexion, your horse’s training problems are the most likely due to something entirely different.

[Ysabel]

I am so glad I came on here for advise!

I feel like such an idiot! I figured out why he was bucking and it has nothing to do with pain or saddle fit - it is actually quite embarrassing - it was the flaps on the saddle - he is spooking at them when the wind blows them open at the faster gait (like wings!).

When he walks and trots on the lung they don’t bother him because they don’t move - but when he canters the wind catches them and they spread out like wings on both sides of him. We figured it out by first removing the saddle and finding out that the bucking stopped. So we put the saddle back on and lunged him … but here is were we just got lucky … it is a really really windy day here today - so even at the trot the saddle flaps were blowing out - each time they did his ears would pin and he would “scoot” forward - it was then that I realized I am an idiot. :yes: So we secured the flaps to the saddle and voila… no kicking out in the canter. Even went for a short canter under saddle today without incident - in fact he has a beautiful ground covering canter that was a joy to ride.

My lesson to myself - I have to get over what that original vet put in my head - ever since that day I have been waiting for the bomb to drop. She had me convinced that it was only a matter of time before he became useless and I have been watching him like a hawk ever since. I now know (thanks to you guys) that I can relax - the spur is not the end of the world. Yes I should still be careful with him, but I don’t have to jump to the conclusion it is his spur every time he has an issue.

I am a very happy girl today.

[4wdNstraight]

Oh yeah! Enjoy your horse! That is a funny story because of the saddle outcome, but I am sorry you agonized over the decision of whether or not to put him down. I had a horse with hock spurs that evented through Prelim, and only got injected twice at the end of his career, so don’t worry! It is no big deal, and is way worth it if you love this horse and want to keep him. I would find a vet that you can use if his soundness ever gets questionable who does lots of this type of vet work, so you are ready if and when you have to address this issue.

[ljcfoh]

[QUOTE=Ysabel;6259903]
I am so glad I came on here for advise!

My lesson to myself - I have to get over what that original vet put in my head - ever since that day I have been waiting for the bomb to drop. She had me convinced that it was only a matter of time before he became useless and I have been watching him like a hawk ever since. I now know (thanks to you guys) that I can relax - the spur is not the end of the world. Yes I should still be careful with him, but I don’t have to jump to the conclusion it is his spur every time he has an issue.

I am a very happy girl today. :D[/QUOTE]

Just to be clear, you are not an idiot…the vet who said that to you was a complete IDIOT! Enjoy your horse and don’t bother looking for the next shoe to drop, your horse has as much chance at a long happy career as next one. No horse is ever perfect. Enjoy him!

[flyracing]

I’m happy for you!! For your piece of mind, I HIGHLY recommend you get new digital xrays taken! In hind sight, xrays are usually pretty darn cheap Knowing how he looks now can go a long way for your mental health and not thinking the worst every time he has a young horse moment!

I had a horse that was xrayed at 6 with a bone spur in his R hock. He had just run his first preliminary event and wasn’t carrying him self as well as we wanted in dressage, so had him checked out by a vet between events (a second prelim event two weeks later). Diagnosis made, prognosis given (optimistically guarded for a long upper level career), injections done, horse rested then put in a top placing performance at the event a week and a half later. We all go home bummed about the bone spur, but happy the treatment seems to work for now.

Took him to him to our regular vet 6 months later for injections (out of state vet said every 4-6 months for the rest of his career). They wanted their own xrays. Try as they might (extra views), they could NOT find a spur on this horse. Fragment? Answered prayer? Who knows, but at the end of the day the truth is the horse had new xrays taken last year at 14 and he has perfectly clean hocks. No signs of arthritis. He’s a hard working horse (with some serious miles to get 3 national title year end HOYs) on no joint supplements, no legend or adequan, and did I mention perfectly clean hock X-rays?!! I even had his hocks injected last year and it didn’t change him bit (won’t waste that 700 bucks again soon, lol)