How much turnout time does he get? I think I’d go with the pasture board.
I truly thing it’s an ornery issue in the mornings. He’s gone almost 20 hours without hay and on short grass then in the mornings during bringing in I can see him being frustrated and aggregated. I stood out with him tonight for a bit he quietly walked off side by side with the other horse. Let the other horse grab at the halter he has on now. He never pinned ears or fight back. I’ve turned him lose with other horses that weren’t his pasture mates during winter seasons he never had any mean moments. I truely think this is a lack of food issue. I brought up the hay but it’s their decision to make.
He’s not happy about wearing it I can tell
It sounds like your root issue with this barn is lack of forage.
However, I do think the ThinLine muzzle is a great solution for curbing biting/chewing on other horses. You can modify the center hole to make it less restrictive for this kind of case. Horses like it much better than the type shown in your photo because it is lighter and cooler. The horse I currently use one on has no trouble eating hay (much to my chagrin, in her case!) or even licking/chewing on her salt block while wearing this muzzle.
My muzzled pony cannot break the skin when she bites her sister while wearing the muzzle. She can, however, still “feel like” she is biting the other horse. She and her sister can even still have mutual grooming sessions.
I imagine the other horse owners aren’t happy about constant chunks being missing from their horses. I know I wouldn’t be. An occasional one is fine and part of being horses but one horse constantly taking hair off others is not ok.
I’d try the thinline muzzle and see. He doesn’t look thin. Maybe throw a toy in the pasture if the BOs approve, give him something to beat up on that isn’t his pasture mates.
He also isn’t missing any hair (at least from the picture), so this isn’t mutual roughhousing. It’s your horse being a turkey.
Whether or not it’s hay related doesn’t change the fact that he’s got to quit it. The muzzle is a great middle ground where he can’t take chunks out of other horses while you work out the other stuff.
A horse causing regular injuries in a turnout group is certainly an issue. As a previous BO and currently back on my own small farm with my babies at home, I know how frustrating that can be.
Sorry not sorry, I don’t believe for a second the horse is injuring mates “while playing.” Playing does not involve bites hard enough to cause “decent gashes.” Decent gashes come from disagreements and/or resource guarding. Personally, I’m appalled that their idea of a solution is a muzzle and I fully agree with the posters that said it will very likely cause behavior to escalate to kicking. That would be a very very very last resort for me.
Since the horse has done this with multiple pasture mates, obviously there’s something else going on (or it’s a VERY antisocial horse, in which case it should be out alone, not muzzled). I scanned most of the OPs responses and think it’s pretty clear the lack of hay/grass while turned out is the main issue. If they won’t/can’t give more hay outside, and they won’t/can’t give him solo turnout, I would be moving to the pasture board option you have.
I know it’s the usual response but, consider that he may have ulcers if he seems more sensitive than others.
But, going from 4p to 7a with no hay and little to no grass? I wouldn’t call him sensitive. That’s just unacceptable.
Well, a lot has changed in eight years, and prices have skyrocketed. If your board fee hasn’t skyrocketed too, then I’d assume they can’t afford to feed the amount of hay they fed in the past.
You don’t get to call this shot because it’s not your barn.
Either work it out within the BOs desired parameters, or go. If they want him muzzled so he isn’t constantly harassing the other horses, that’s what it’s going to be.
I think I have a fear of moving him when I do not know what the reason behind the biting is. If they would just move him to a field where can a be a busy body grazing and not 12 hour shifts on over eaten grass, I would like to see if that changes the dynamics. The other barn I am in contact with IS willing to put him out solo if he becomes an issue but he also agrees he’s probably aggravated.
I agree prices have gone way up - we have had board increases but as I am looking around we are the cheapest in the area. Yet, I am finding most barns only hay in the AM around here and I can’t grasp why!
This is just a guess and based on my time keeping horses in Florida. If the horses are in all day, they get hay in the morning to give them something to eat, but no hay at dinner feeding time because they are immediately going out to eat grass. Feeding everyone hay in the evening and waiting for them to finish eating the hay before you turn out is a hassle and throwing hay in the field is also a hassle. If it is a barn where staff are around all day long, Then I can see feeding hay at maybe 3:00 or so, so they have plenty of time to eat before getting turned out at 5:00 or 6:00, but if staff is just coming to feed breakfast and dinner then I also would not want to feed hay at dinner and wait 2 hours to turn out.
Who knows people tend to get stuck doing the same thing as everyone else because it’s “standard.”
I grew up in Ohio, and way back then hay (even alfalfa) was $3-4/bale (now $6-8/bale), yet 99% of the barns in my area would only feed 1-2 flakes AM and PM. One or two would feed more hay if you paid for it, but most just wouldn’t (some didn’t bother even if you were paying for it). Plus, they barely turn out more than 2-3 hours a day.
Then I moved to Florida, and those same bales (shipped down) were $14/bale (now $18-22), but soooooooooo many barns in the area fed free-choice hay.
How do the barns in Ohio think 2-4 flakes of hay per day is enough? How does it make sense that the hay that costs 4-8x as much gets fed free-choice? A lot of people are clueless about equine nutrition, that’s how.
Yeah, I mean I do think about it. If this muzzle, biting issue never popped up I would never ever have thought of leaving here. The commute is so nice and my horses always in good shape. They probably know feeding just am and tossing out on grass is harmless to most of these guys because they all need muzzles here. It’s just the logistics of mine being a thoroughbred he needs a bit more to make his belly happy. Do I just suck it up. Muzzle and enjoy the commute? The facility is the best in the area. Huge indoor I would sacrifice leaving. And $200 less than most facilities around here.
I do think to myself if they never never even brought up this muzzle, biting thing I would’ve never of second-guess of leaving this place
If everything else is working well could you pay for the field to have more hay? Maybe I overlooked that option but to pay an extra rate for a trial month of them tossing twice as much hay in the field and seeing if it addresses the dynamic. An extra $100 in hay may be a lot cheaper than moving.
Have you talked to them yet about throwing hay in separate piles when they turn out? He should be able to eat through the muzzle.
I sent them a text asking so fingers crossed they will either let me buy more hay off of them or I can pay to store hay in an empty stall. If all else falls maybe I can store a few bales at a time in my trailer.
I hope they’re willing to work with you, it seems reasonable to me if you’re supplying the hay!
That might be a better route if otherwise you like it there. A soft muzzle wouldn’t upset me much either if my horse was actually peeling skin of his turnout companion either. I hate it when that happens, though it was usually my horse being the farm chew toy back in the day.