If you do want the instructors to spend an extra hour or half hour at the start and end of the lesson block, then they do need to be paid something for that time.
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This is the correct way to rug and unrug and is the way taught by Equestrian Australia.
When the leg straps are linked through each other, if you are rugging and unrugging in a windy paddock and the rug flip back over their body, they can easily step out of the rug.
If you do up the chest strap and not the leg straps the wind can flip the rug over the horses head. If they panic you are now in a very very bad situation that could have been avoided.
This is exactly why it should be trained instructors teaching the basics. How many accidents have been avoided because of people being taught the correct way.
We see the ramifications of people being taught the incorrect way by well meaning people who think they know best on this forum and in life.
As we have established many times on many subjects, there are many roads to Rome and usually no one single âcorrectâ approach. Itâs pretty arrogant of you to assume that yours is the only correct way for any circumstance.
If the only correct way is to save the chest buckles until last, you must be appalled at the use of closed front blankets that slip over the horses head.
FWIW, this is how I was taught to put a blanket on:
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And then there is myself chasing a horse with the blanket belly and leg straps undone and flapping and the chest straps firmly buckled. Thereâs no perfect way if something goes whacky.
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In my experience, some horses will manage to find the weak spot in any plan. :lol:
I once had to put a turnout sheet on an old mule in a pasture in the middle of a tropical storm. By myself. Head into the wind, blanket rolled up tight back-to-front, chest buckles first, and no dilly dallying.
@NoSuchPerson - my current trainer taught me the same way, with exception to the over the head part during removal.
I realize there are many ways to don/doff blankets, however Iâm partial to the way we do it now. I knew of a girl who was removing a blanket and didnât realize the back leg straps were still done up and the horse panicked, as I guess she was going front to back and working quickly, and the horse double-barrel kicked her, breaking ribs, internal injuries, etc.
I have nothing to add that others havenât. I love the working student route for this. I just wanted to say that as the parent of a little barn kid I really really appreciate the fact that my daughter is made to learn these things. I have taken her out of lesson programs where she was not learning good horsemanship. For some reason, kids pay closer attention to details around the barn when being taught by the cool barn teens and not their own dorky mom. Go figure. I tip the teenager with cold fountain sodas and she makes my little rascal clean and learn the different parts of the bridle etc for extended amounts of time. I would rather the paid lesson time be used on actual riding. Itâs a win-win if thereâs a good teenager at the barn, really. Stuff gets cleaned up and kids learn the important details.
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In my experience, even if you tell the parent the child cannot tack/groom alone does nothing. In most cases the parent knows as much as the child about horses if not less. Sometimes it is good to have a helping hand in the barn if the trainer is not available, but you would have to make sure it is someone the children are comfortable asking for help, and will show them how to do it without being condescending, or just fixing it themselves.
I definitely think you should test the kids to see if they are ready, you cannot just assume they are able to do it, some kids learn differently. Also, is the problem them not knowing how it should be, or them not caring? If they donât care maybe have a bit of incentive, best groomed horse gets to be the lesson leader (idk about your lesson program but someone always has to go first, make it this kid) Once everyone is ready for the lesson have them line up, check grooming and tack, award a winner.
As a child, I was part of an evening âPony Clubâ. Where we were there was no indoor, and on evenings in the winter it was too dark and cold to ride. so this club met once a week, and we would go over grooming, tacking, parts of tack, braiding, different grooming tools that are not commonly used, how to take TPR, know if our horse is sick, vet, farrier, and chiro visits ect. In the summer, if it was raining we would have stable management lessons and go over the same things. The barn would also hold âTack cleaning Partiesâ mid winter, as a get together and everyone would go over parts of tack while cleaning, and everyone would race to see who could put a bridle back together the fastest blindfolded.
Now that I am older and have an indoor, I teach lessons with the OEF rider levels in mind. Most of my students like to test the levels. They have a stable management section. We will have at least 1 off horse lesson a month. This will teach proper grooming and such, and the older more experienced riders learn to lunge, build courses, ect.
I also think the trainer should kick the child out of the lesson (send back to barn to fix) until their tack is proper (should they be expected to know, if not take 2 mins to do your job and teach them). Iâve been kicked out of lessons for not having polos on right. And Iâve seen at larger a level barns lessoners being sent back as they had 2 bits of shavings in the tail
Thank you all for your input. I do appreciate it. I donât directly supervise the instructors (meaning that I am not their "boss) and i canât (mentally or physically) stay at the barn 14 hours M-F and 8 hours ea Sat and Sun to watch/supervise the lessons. I am on my way to being burnt out but I think itâs a good sign that I really do still care!
Part of the problem is what Findeight has said - we have few kids who have time to hang out at the barn after their lesson. They are off and running right after their lesson, or they are 7 years old and their parents want to leave them at the farm all day. Our older kids who could help with lessons would love to hang at the barn but they work, do other sports, have gobs of school work, etc. Or, they have money and have no need to work off extra lessons. And with a volunteer program of working off lessons, how do you get them to commit to being there every Sat (or whatever)?
I know that if instructors arenât willing to do what needs to be done they shouldnât be instructorsâŠhowever, that again is easier said then done. We have finally, after a lot of searching, hired an additional instructor that has a brain and wants to use it, actually wants to teach and needs the money, and is enthusiastic! I am very excited about her. The others are not particularly motivated by money and canât spell work ethic. The kids seem to like them though. We are not a big lesson program so even if one instructor taught all of the lessons it wouldnât be a full time job. And because we arenât a big program and there are 50 other barns within 20 miles, telling students to conform or leave isnât good for business. I think our instructors have an easy job (compared to some other barns) - their lessson horses are always in, they donât handle money, they donât schedule, if there is an issue with a parent they donât deal with it, they donât do barn chores, etc. They just teach.
As for grooming - all of our horses go out in clothes and their legs get hosed when they come in. But this is Pennsylvania where it seems that for the past 9 months, it precipitates every 3 days. The mud this winter is indescribable because the ground wonât freeze and stay frozen. All of the horses come in with mud on their bellies, in their manes, on their heads, etc. My only option is to not turn out in the sacrifice paddocks and I wonât do that. They need to go out.
I take good care of my lesson horses - they all get regular vet, farrier, and dental work. Some of the olders are on pentosan or equioxx to keep them comfortable. They are fed high quality grain and hay. None of them do more than 2 lessons a day (unless the 3rd lesson on a Saturday is a walk/trot only).
All of that info was written not as an excuse but to give you insight into my situation.
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None of your update changes any of my answers. Itâs not the horseâs fault a kid has soccer and gymnastics immediately following their riding lesson.
Grooming/tacking before and after is part of their hour, they come before and stay after to properly care for horse, or they pay for a âgroomâ to do this for them - whether thatâs an additional hire or the existing instructor (perhaps the one who needs money) is up to you. Whichever standard you wish to apply is also up to you. Shoot, make all three options available, and let each client choose what kind of client they want to be. But the options are the options. Donât let Susie, who didnât pay for a groom and is crying about ride time because her lesson is from 5-6p but didnât start until 515 because she showed up at 5 and had to tack up, ride until 6 then peace out at exactly 6:01pm without brushing her horse.
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I get that kids are busy, but having a more qualified kid there to help still does not seem like too hard of a thing, unless the program is very tiny. And do not dismiss the kids that can afford more ride time. They might actually like the idea of working at the barn, the extra ride time is just a bonus.
In the end you have to have a sit down with the barn owner and the instructors and figure out how this problem is going to be solved. Doing nothing is not an option.
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In a a perfect worldâŠ
Again, OP does not own the barn, manage the lesson program or the instructors. The reality is itâs expensive operate a lesson program and, while itâs admirable to stand up for principles and tell clients they can leave if they donât want to come early or stay late, it doesnât pay the hay guy when they go to other barns. And they will leave for one of the other barns in the area that will work for their time needs.
If the student doesnât drive, itâs the (usually full time working) parent who doesnât have time. This isnât an upper end barn and their target demographic sounds more blue collar and young non owning weekly riders.
Me? Id build it into the lesson time and schedule it an hour and 15 or 20 minutes and publish that on all rate and rule sheets without raising the price. But the non resident instructors will absolutely hate it.
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I donât know any. other. sport. where the instructor will give you an extra 30+ minutes of unpaid time before or after your scheduled lesson on a regular basis. Why on earth should horse back riding be any different? This is a fundamental problem in all aspects of horse sports, from boarding and late fees to lessons and training time. There is zero reason why equine businesses should be expected to operate without the standard business practices used elsewhere.
My sister runs a daycare out of her home. If a parent is late picking up a child, they get charged for the extra time. Doesnâtâ matter if it was because of snow, or an accident, or whatever. Itâs not the daycare teacherâs fault the parent was late.
When I was on swim team, swim coach was there from practice start to practice end. That was it. Needed/wanted extra time to work on something specific? You scheduled and paid for it.
When I took piano lessons, if parents didnât just stay for the lesson, and were late picking up, they were charged a fee.
When I played soccer, you started cool down 15 mins before the scheduled end of practice, and were done on time.
Itâs really not a hard concept. Time is money, and riding instructors should not be expected to work âfor freeâ just because horses are involved.
You canât please everyone, thereâs always going to be someone who doesnât fit into a program.
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OP Iâm confused as to your role at this barn. Are these your personal horses in lessons, but you donât get to hire or supervise the instructors? Or are you just a groom or barn help?
If they are your horses you need to negotiate a better deal.
If you are a groom bring your concerns forward to barn manager with some concrete cost effective ways to solve them.
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I did not say it was the only way I said it was taught to me by Equestrian Australia so it is not completely wrong and is for when in a windy paddock for safety. In a stable you can do it the other way safely.
My last comment was me thinking about us teaching to pick out hooves and always go down. I have always done this and always taught this. Then I read on this forum about 2 people picking towards themselves and slipped and gashed opened their arms.
So yes in a windy paddock I do put rugs on and off the EA way, especially yesterday in cyclonic winds. I had to change as I used to do it the other way.
I have never seen or heard of no front buckle rugs. I only learned they exist in this thread.
In our barn, instructors are expected to arrive about 45 minutes to an hour before the first lesson, and to do some of the grooming. The lessons then run back to back after that. The kids are expected and their parents are told that they need to arrive twenty minutes early for an hourâs lesson, and stay 20 minutes after, for an hour and forty minutes all in. All kids are expected to groom, even if the instructor already took the first pass. The competent kids can tack smaller horses/ponies, and instructors tack any horses that are too big/too touchy. Kids and instructors both will help the newer kids tack up. All the kids are expected to untack and brush. If there are beginner kids, they get paired with a more experienced kid and that pair is expected to brush the beginnerâs pony and the more experienced kidâs pony together so that the beginner kids are never alone. If we have a bunch of adult beginners, one instructor will be in the barn getting that class tacked while another is with the preceding class in the ring. As the adults get better, they have to do their own tacking.
While I agree with this, the glaring difference between riding and other sports is the 1,000lb animal. At the end of the day, it is the animal who suffers when the instructor passes the buck. Yes it sucks, but it sucks more for the horse. There is also that liability issue of an instructor walking off the property when the lesson is over but kids are still actively handling horses. A little different than when the ballet/piano/soccer lesson is over. for me, the obvious answer would be to work this into lessons when a client is failing to do right by the horse. But I also understand OP not being in the position to make that decision.
Agreed. And kids donât have to inflate balls, line soccer fields, haul equipment to and from a shed, test the chlorine in the pool, etc. There are a lot of tasks for MANY extra-curricular activities that the kid taking the lesson does not have to partake in, or âpay forâ directly. Yet are performed by instructors or staff or volunteers.
As a parent who took lessons and also brought kids to lessons, I have mixed feelings on all of this. Younger kids simply are not capable of properly catching, grooming and tacking up. They are not tall enough or strong enough, and I am particularly against young novice riders separating horses in paddocks and bringing them in, after my daughter and another 8 year old tried catching the wrong horse (because 4 bay horses all in one field) and caused a stampedeâŠ
So you either end up with a lot of unsafe behavior or some parents (not all, because many are clueless) end up taking on this task. Which some might enjoy, but as an adult with horses at home also - I did not. I do not find it âfunâ to groom someone elseâs wet, muddy horse or help other enthusiastic kids to tack up (who donât want my help because they want to do it themselves, yet canât lift the saddle high enough.)
Some barns might have a plethora of willing teenagers available for this job, but neither of the two barns my kids rode at did. I hated it.
I think it might be worth paying a couple of kids to help, OR in busy times - to actually groom and tack up lesson horses. If kids love the sport and stick with it - they will learn. But just like soccer or piano, or swim teamâŠthere are kids that are not going to stay with it. They may take lessons for a year and then drop it. Not sure it is necessary to make âhorsemen/womenâ out of them at the ages of 8-10. The idea of making them clean a stall before a lesson is ridiculous.
Older kids and adult beginners - of course thatâs different. I love the idea of 1 day/month horsemanship clinic or something like that. I would have liked it for myself, and my kids would definitely have loved it.
This would still be an employee-employer relationship and would have to be documented on the books, workers comp paid, withholdings paid, etc.
What @mmeqcenter said. To build on that, when you get a hair cut, you donât walk into the salon and sit in the chair and the hairdresser starts hacking away. You do a quick consult, get your hair washed, then the cutting begins, they you usually get it blow dried and styled. All that time and effort is built into the cost of the âcut.â
Beginner lessons should almost be more expensive due to the need for supervision at all times. An hour is an hour, no matter what you are doing - teaching horse care or riding. If the kid canât get the horse ready or turned back out safely, the kid needs supervision. No one should have assigned duties but not get paid, including the trainer.
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