Horse "doesn't like flatwork"?

[Gumby80]

I think I follow the same rider, although I don’t know her personally. As I remember it, a rude teenager demanded she post videos of her flatting the horse in question, you know, to assure the audience that she was doing it CORRECTLY. Because that’s what you do apparently, you demand that someone post content that satisfies you on their own instagram account. Yikes.

I also remember the rider in question saying that she was working with a grand prix rider to bring along the horse, and they had found that including poles and cavalettis in most rides worked well with the horse. But of course, you all know better than this grand prix rider. I’m sure you’ve all trained horses to that level, yes?

Again, I don’t know the rider. I follow a lot of horse accounts because I like pictures and videos of ponies. I just find the pile-on mentality to be kind of disgusting.

Would you be showing the same bullying attitude to Rowan Willis? He has a fabulous horse called Blue Movie, who he’s represented his country with. According to him, he doesn’t flat this horse either. Because, she doesn’t like it. But I guess he just needs y’all to tell him where he’s going wrong? Right?

[crookedpainting]

@Gumby80

I think I follow the same rider, although I don’t know her personally. As I remember it, a rude teenager demanded she post videos of her flatting the horse in question, you know, to assure the audience that she was doing it CORRECTLY. Because that’s what you do apparently, you demand that someone post content that satisfies you on their own instagram account. Yikes.

I also remember the rider in question saying that she was working with a grand prix rider to bring along the horse, and they had found that including poles and cavalettis in most rides worked well with the horse. But of course, you all know better than this grand prix rider. I’m sure you’ve all trained horses to that level, yes?

Again, I don’t know the rider. I follow a lot of horse accounts because I like pictures and videos of ponies. I just find the pile-on mentality to be kind of disgusting.

Would you be showing the same bullying attitude to Rowan Willis? He has a fabulous horse called Blue Movie, who he’s represented his country with. According to him, he doesn’t flat this horse either. Because, she doesn’t like it. But I guess he just needs y’all to tell him where he’s going wrong? Right?

First of all, no, we’re not thinking of the same rider. She never spoke about cavalettis or poles, and nobody ‘demanded’ that she post videos of the mare to make sure she was doing flatwork correctly. It was a simple question, just “Why don’t you ever post flat videos of this mare?”.
Second, I don’t think there was ever any bullying displayed in this thread, I just asked a question and people gave their opinions/answers on it. Nobody said “Oh, this is obviously a terrible rider who shouldn’t ride horses”.
Third, no, nobody’s claiming to know more than a GP rider and nobody’s going to ‘bully’ Rowan Willis for not flatting Blue Movie, because at least he doesn’t jump her 5 times a week. I still believe that horses should be able to flat, but to each their own, I guess.
Sorry if this offended you or if you think that we shouldn’t be able to share our opinions on horse-related things. I didn’t give out the name of the rider, the owner or even the mare. Nobody wanted to reach out to the trainer and give them their opinion, this is a discussion board where people discuss things. I don’t know why you’re so up in arms about someone wanting other people’s opinion on what they saw on social media.

[Jenerationx]

Ehhhh could mean nothing. I knew a horse that would do all the fancy flatwork you wanted outside in a field or on a trail, but hated rings or arenas. He’d do it, but it wouldn’t be a highlight reel. Maybe they’re just trying to show off the horse in it’s best light.

Or there could be issues. If we don’t know the mare, we don’t know.

[Marigold]

@Eclipsed

Anyways, any thoughts? Any similar experiences/how you solved it?

I knew a mare like this once. Came to our barn from good people (that certainly did not have her in a twisted wire) because she was meant to do dressage, and didn’t want to. Would hack beautifully, would barely move in an arena. The guy who began working with her at our barn wasn’t the “force her to” type, but we had been well-warned that you wouldn’t get anywhere with that - it had been tried once with…vertical results.

At any rate, the solution was ultimately that you entered the arena at a turtle’s speed (the fastest she’d give you when she saw where you were headed) and aimed directly at a small crossrail. Do not pass go, do not collect $200. She liked the jumping thing and would happily move towards it. After that one jump, you could get essentially normal flatwork out of her, as long as you incorporated the odd pole (didn’t have to be raised) to keep her brain happy and engaged. She did like to jump, and was very good at it, so she went into the usual program of a jump school or two a week, interspersed with some hacking and some flatwork days (which for her first six months or so, always included the one small crossrail and some polework). Eventually, she learned she wasn’t going to be bored to death, and happily lived her life just like all the other horses.

Ironically, she suffered a paddock injury several years later that required her to be retired to flatwork only. As far as I know, the problem has never resurfaced.

[Gumby80]

Actually I’d be quite surprised if it wasn’t the same rider, perhaps you missed her update post a few days after the one you refer to. But let’s say it’s a different rider, my point still stands.

The horse world is surprisingly small at times. Let’s say you’re a younger professional, who has to work with quirkier/more difficult horses instead of 6-figure imports. What if you found this thread? Sure, you didn’t include any identifying information, but you can still read the comments that she “doesn’t know very much”, that they’re “not a person you would want to know”. That the rider only cares about the “fun part”, that they’re a “child” who “hasn’t the slightest clue”. All direct quotes from this thread. How would that make you feel? It’s bullying and mean-spirited, and as far as I can tell, none of the other posters on this thread have even seen the horse or rider. It does not seem to me at all that you’re “wanting people’s opinion on what you saw on social media”, it reads much more like you enjoy tearing others down. I hope I’m wrong about that.

What about the horse in Marigold’s post? That horse was technically jumping every ride, but I think most people would agree that it’s a smart solution to a tricky problem, which resulted in a happier horse and happier rider. But as you said initially, “any sane person … would know that jumping a horse 5 days a week can’t be good for their legs”. So this person was wrong then? Or, could it possibly be that each horse and rider situation is individual?

For what it’s worth, I also think flatwork is super beneficial for most horses. But I had an old trainer say to me once that people who really know horses don’t speak in absolutes. e.g. the horse should “always”, the rider should “never”, and so on. If you give it long enough, you’ll always meet the exception to the rule. I also see stuff on social media that makes me think “Ehhhh, not sure I’d do it that way”. But unless it’s a case of clear-cut animal abuse, I think keeping your mouth shut is the best policy. Firstly, because the damage that bullying can do is enormous, even to adults. And secondly, because I think that harsh and personal criticism (as on this thread) implies that you think you could do better. I’ve been in the horse world for enough decades to know that this is a very risky thing to assume!

[paw]

Flatwork is the foundation to work over fences. It’s a very rare horse who will hold up over fences if they’re not working properly without jumping stress.

[Scribbler]

There are two possibilities here.

One, the trainer is inexperienced and doesn’t understand the role of flatwork.

Two, the trainer knows the value of flatwork, but made an offhand comment on social media that makes knowledgeable people question the trainer’s experience.

Without knowing the trainer’s work IRL, we can’t fully say, though the twisted wire bit is not a good look.

What happens if the trainer recognized themself on here? Well, hopefully it would be a learning moment. If I say that, it damages my credibility.

If it’s scenario #2 then they’ve learned that they might need to shape their professional profile a bit.

If it’s scenario #1 then they can either also do that, or they can come on COTH, identify themselves, and have a public meltdown.

[enjoytheride]

I’m going to agree with Gumby80 here. Demanding that a trainer post instagram videos of flatwork just so you can judge them is childish. Perhaps they rushed through their flatwork and have a horrible trainer and its going to come back to bite them in the future. But do we really need to drag it onto COTH and post about them? It’s mean spirited bullying. It’s not an attempt to “understand” the rider’s view.

[crookedpainting]

@Gumby80

Actually I’d be quite surprised if it wasn’t the same rider, perhaps you missed her update post a few days after the one you refer to. But let’s say it’s a different rider, my point still stands.

The horse world is surprisingly small at times. Let’s say you’re a younger professional, who has to work with quirkier/more difficult horses instead of 6-figure imports. What if you found this thread? Sure, you didn’t include any identifying information, but you can still read the comments that she “doesn’t know very much”, that they’re “not a person you would want to know”. That the rider only cares about the “fun part”, that they’re a “child” who “hasn’t the slightest clue”. All direct quotes from this thread. How would that make you feel? It’s bullying and mean-spirited, and as far as I can tell, none of the other posters on this thread have even seen the horse or rider. It does not seem to me at all that you’re “wanting people’s opinion on what you saw on social media”, it reads much more like you enjoy tearing others down. I hope I’m wrong about that.

What about the horse in Marigold’s post? That horse was technically jumping every ride, but I think most people would agree that it’s a smart solution to a tricky problem, which resulted in a happier horse and happier rider. But as you said initially, “any sane person … would know that jumping a horse 5 days a week can’t be good for their legs”. So this person was wrong then? Or, could it possibly be that each horse and rider situation is individual?

For what it’s worth, I also think flatwork is super beneficial for most horses. But I had an old trainer say to me once that people who really know horses don’t speak in absolutes. e.g. the horse should “always”, the rider should “never”, and so on. If you give it long enough, you’ll always meet the exception to the rule. I also see stuff on social media that makes me think “Ehhhh, not sure I’d do it that way”. But unless it’s a case of clear-cut animal abuse, I think keeping your mouth shut is the best policy. Firstly, because the damage that bullying can do is enormous, even to adults. And secondly, because I think that harsh and personal criticism (as on this thread) implies that you think you could do better. I’ve been in the horse world for enough decades to know that this is a very risky thing to assume!

I’ve gone back and read everything. I’m sorry for coming on here, you’re right. I shouldn’t come on and ask for opinions about a horse and trainer I know nothing about. My actions were thoughtless and reckless, from now on I’ll try to think a lot more about my actions and what I want to say before even doing anything. I’m sorry for being hotheaded and aggressive, I shouldn’t try and defend something that’s not right, regardless of how it makes me look. I shouldn’t have opened my mouth and I shouldn’t have attacked you for pointing out the faults in my original post and what followed. Apologies.