Horse falling is becoming a common occurance.

[YankeeLawyer]

[QUOTE=Dazednconfused;2157960]
I agree that this is very serious but when you are a kid with a horse and inexperienced parents - it is not so black and white when it comes to calling a (potentially costly) vet. It sounds like the OP is in fact taking it seriously - I had this same problem myself once and it really sucks - I can see how her hands are tied.[/QUOTE]

I understand. I am hoping her parents will see these posts so that they understand that this is serious. A lot of nonhorsey parents just don’t know how to recognize some potentially very serious conditions; it is not that they don’t mean well. I would hope, in such situations, a more experienced BO or trainer would recognize the issue and advise accordingly.

Regarding costs, it is often a lot less expensive if the vet intervenes early, rather than later, in such situations, particularly if failing to timely treat the horse leads to that horse becoming no longer rideable or worse.

[Highflyer1]

Remember that, while you have to pay for the vet to come out, it’s free to call them and ask a question!

[SpazabianLitRB]

Dazednconfused hit the nail on the head. I am taking the matter seriously, if I wasn’t, why would I post here?
Getting a vet out is a complicated (don’t even ask) and costly thing to do to begin with. The vet has already been out many times to look at him, and he’s never found anything. This is why I came to you, I need a good idea of where to start. If I don’t know where to look, the vets wont do it. How do I do that rolly-eyes icon…?

I do appreciate the responses, and FWIW, I was searching for the vet’s # in my phone yesterday after he went down again. When he walked out of the arena nothing looked out of the ordinary, and in the barn everything was fine, which is why the vet wasn’t immediately called. If he was limping even the slightest bit after he went out that gate, the vet would have been called then and there.

[2DaPoint]

Aside from all the gloom and doom possibilities brought up by the other posters, it could also be a pain response to something in his spine that really does only occur when his body sets itself up to canter. In which case you should contact a reputable equine Chiropractor to see what kind of diagnostic work up they can give you.

I hope you get to the bottom of this quickly. If he’s ill, you need to get him well. If he’s in pain, you need to alleviate it.

[egontoast]

it doesn’t have to be a dire neurological illness but it could be something like navicular which also causes horses to stumble. The horse has something significantly wrong with it. I think some of the replies are just trying to emphasize that this sounds like a serious issue which needs to be addressed. Obviously it is dangerous. The OP has already been injured.

If your vet is not taking it seriously, you need a different vet. Find a really good vet and get that vet to come out and do a full assessment. Write out the full history so you don’t forget to tell her or him anything.

[Warmheart]

My question is what is the footing in the indoor arena? Not to undermine the fact that he is continuing to fall and this could be something that needs to be further explored.
I have seen such terrible footing in arenas that have a hard underground with no grip for the horse. A horse needs to cup the earth to get good traction otherwise they will fall. I know of an arena in the area that has a hard under surface then there is some sort of dry loose material on top of it, kind of like they took their manure spreader and put the refuse from the stalls out in there thinking that it would be a good spongy footing. Then to give the horses a cushion they spread the rubber pellets on top. I am not talking a heavy enough layer or that they mixed them in, it is just a layer of rubber pellets. I walked in there the first time for a clinic with a well know clinician and he was doing a demonstration just as you described except he was cantering off the diagonal making a turn onto the short side. The horse basically did a “motorcycle turn” and all four feet when out from under him. No traction and the rubber pellets merely rolled out from under his feet. So when talking about incidents as this you need to realize that you are a bit green with horses, you don’t have knowledgeable parents, the barn management is not going to go where they will say it is the footing, and your friends who have seen the horse fall in lessons may be feeding the frenzy.
I am not saying to “not” call the vet but you say that the vet has been out there before with no diagnosis to indcate a problem. I am saying that you need to be observant of everything to come to conclusion whether it is horse health or environmental along with someone who does not know horse behavior and mechanics. Just my 2 cents.

[egontoast]

Go back and read REbe’s post that highlights the history. I doubt very much this is just a footing issue. Are all the other horses falling too? The horse was falling in lessons before the OP bought him. Something is wrong with the horse and no one has figured it out yet.

[vanjumper]

[QUOTE=SpazabianLitRB;2158052]

again. When he walked out of the arena nothing looked out of the ordinary, and in the barn everything was fine, which is why the vet wasn’t immediately called. If he was limping even the slightest bit after he went out that gate, the vet would have been called then and there.[/QUOTE]

The fact that he went down, had difficulty getting up, and then some peculiar behaviour (“he got up, he half reared a few times before taking slow steps toward the arena door”) should have been WAY bigger alarm bells than whether or not he was showing lameness.

ETA: I can see now by reading thoroughly that you are new(ish) to horses. Things like this are an indication of neurological problems. Call the vet - and as was said, if the vet you are using isn’t taking you seriously, find a new one who will.

[Warmheart]

I think if you read my post I am saying to take everything into consideration nor am I saying that there could not be something terribly wrong. I am not an alarmist, but I think that a very experience horseman should evaluate the who situation, including the vet. You also are taking the descriptions of “difficulty getting up” from a new horse owner, perceptions are different from people who have experience and those who have varying degrees of experience.
The horse has trouble with his right lead, she is observant to this part, could it be that the horse is so non-supple going to the right that it struggles traveling that way and contributes to this problem?

[plumbrook]

Is your horse built down hill? Or does he have low hoof angle and/or long toes? This may be a serious problem as others have suggested. Or this could be a balance problem.

I have a horse in my barn that is NOT the most athletic beast. She came to me with very low hoof angles that did not match her pasturn angle at all. She has fallen like you discribed and would trip A LOT! But now that her angles are fixed we have not had any trouble. We were able to bring her hoof angles up from 45 to 55 degrees.

[Appassionato]

I’ll probably stand alone on this potential cause, but here goes anyway: is it in his hooves? I ask because for years my horse could be “stumbly”, he had thin soles, and was an undiagnosed pedal osteitis that later foundered (and a very bad one). Definately get a video and consult a podiatrist on this IMHO. I listened to vets too, they said my horse was just being a clutz. Although, this clutz was winning competitions…go figure.

Best of luck to you!

[egontoast]

I don’t think you are ‘standing alone’. Navicular was mentioned as well. Thing is, she needs the vet.

it does seem that some people do not understand neuro issues and how they present. I remember another long thread (fargo?) where a horse was showing neuro symptoms sporadically and the owner had to be convinced that the vet should be called because the horse was not symptomatic all the time…That horse was having seizures but the vet was not called for weeks.

[Appassionato]

@egontoast;2159318

I don’t think you are ‘standing alone’. Navicular was mentioned as well. Thing is, she needs the vet.

it does seem that some people do not understand neuro issues and how they present. I remember another long thread (fargo?) where a horse was showing neuro symptoms sporadically and the owner had to be convinced that the vet should be called because the horse was not symptomatic all the time…That horse was having seizures but the vet was not called for weeks.

Oh. I missed that then (navicular). :o :lol: I mentioned a podiatrist because my horse’s troubles before founder went undiagnosed, even after founder it went undiagnosed for some time…I’m not slamming vets at all, just that some ain’t “on par” if you know what I mean. At least on hooves. In any case, it was why I mentioned a podiatrist. At least rule that one cause out.

To fargo’s defense, the owner was being an asshat about it all.

[Giddy-up]

@SpazabianLitRB;2156811

The other day, when I was talking to a friend about the accident, she mentioned that she’d seen him fall before in lessons, before I got him.

That statement makes me nervous. Really nervous. What else don’t you know about this horse’s past??? (I am not blaming you, just merely pointing out you may not have the full history on this horse) I would get a vet out (or at least be calling them ASAP with the most recent events). Or perhaps you need to find a new vet. Sometimes a fresh set of eyes can find something others overlook.

And it doesn’t matter if you aren’t going to be riding anytime soon–your horse could be a hazard to people around him at the barn. Imagine if he falls on somebody in his stall or while being led down the aisle?

[JackieBlue]

Hold on a minute. I’m getting the feeling this may have been a lesson horse that you bought from your barn? Most likely with your trainer’s involvement? How on Earth could these people sell a “horse that falls down” to a novice girl/family? If I were your Mother, I’d be getting to the bottom of this horse’s story and quickly. How your trainer can sleep at night is beyond me. Maybe the horse has already been diagnosed with something and that’s why the vet doesn’t ever “find” anything. Did you have a prepurchase exam done when you bought the horse? I’m very worried that you may have been taken advantage of and that your suffering ma only be just beginning.

[Pictob]

Sounds like it could be symptoms of wobblers which is very serious and potentially fatal neurological disease. I believe it’s a special test that needs to be done to test for it so maybe that’s why nothing has been found previously by the vet. We had a horse at the barn with it and to look at him even free lunging and playing in the arena you would have never ever guessed there was anything wrong with him. One fall and they took him to the vet, and he was at the most serious degree of wobbler’s you can get.

I don’t want to scare you and worry you even more but I would have it checked out as soon as you possibly can.

[Huntertwo]

@Warmheart;2158328

I think if you read my post I am saying to take everything into consideration nor am I saying that there could not be something terribly wrong. I am not an alarmist, but I think that a very experience horseman should evaluate the who situation, including the vet. You also are taking the descriptions of “difficulty getting up” from a new horse owner, perceptions are different from people who have experience and those who have varying degrees of experience.
The horse has trouble with his right lead, she is observant to this part, could it be that the horse is so non-supple going to the right that it struggles traveling that way and contributes to this problem?

I was thinking the same thing also. To the OP, was the horse ridden in the same indoor before you bought him? (You mentioned he tripped before you bought him)

How is he in the outside arena? Or being ridden in a field etc.

The footing could be very deep and he is having a hard time getting out of his own way.

[citydog]

[QUOTE=Dazednconfused;2157960]
I agree that this is very serious but when you are a kid with a horse and inexperienced parents - it is not so black and white when it comes to calling a (potentially costly) vet. It sounds like the OP is in fact taking it seriously - I had this same problem myself once and it really sucks - I can see how her hands are tied.[/QUOTE]

I totally understand this.

But Spazabian, how about printing out this thread and showing it to your parents? This is all potentially very serious, and a vet needs to be involved now. As expensive as vet work can be, if your horse topples over onto someone and injures them, I suspect (YankeeLawyer?) your parents could be dealing with a law suit.

At least call your vet, phone advice is free, and perhaps your parents will listen to the vet?

[SpazabianLitRB]

I’ve considered the footing of the arena as part of the problem. Near the front of the arena is where he’s tripped at the canter before, and its where he fell both times. I’ve never seen another horse have a problem down in that area, except for this past Saturday (before the second fall), when my friend’s horse went down in the same area. The footing in there is pretty uneven, but its only the front half where my horse has had issues.

I don’t know if it was mentioned before or not, but the choice isn’t mine to make as to whether the vet is called. He is mine on a full lease, and when I called the owner today to let her know what was going on (couldn’t reach her yesterday), she stated she wasn’t bringing the vet out, and if it happened again she would call the vet at that time. Even though I realize that its obviously not a safe situation, I have no authority to go around his actual owner.

I’ve done some digging in the past few days in regards to his history, and according to the trainer at our barn, as well as a few others who have been there long enough, there is no history of him falling, or stumbling. I don’t know what the other girl was thinking of when she said she’s seen it before, but since noone else has been able to back that up, I can’t really believe her. The only time he had been used was in lessons, and if either instructor had seen him falling, it would have been mentioned to me sooner (I’ve had the horse for 3 years now), or at the very least, the instructors would have mentioned something about it after the accident.

The horse has been on the property for about 6 years now. He’s been worked in the indoor before. The indoor is where he’s always seemed to have problems, however. About a month ago I had him out on the trails and he was perfectly fine cantering along the trails, no problems at all. He’s always been fine in the other arenas as well, and in the field out back where we ride sometimes. Its isolated to the indoor, and the right lead canter. He doesn’t travel straight in his body, I’m told he never has. Walking naturally, he travels bent slightly to the left. When he’s on the left lead, I’ve never noticed him swapping his leads behind or anything, he always stays on it perfectly. His feet were done at the beginning of the month, and nothing has been out of the ordinary. I think its something higher up thats causing the issue.

The difficulty getting up could always be attributed to the fact that the horse looked shell-shocked as to what had happened, it looked like he truly didn’t understand what had just happened to him. It wasn’t so much difficulty as just slowness I think. It wasn’t like it was a struggle for him to get to his feet (and I’ve seen many horses who had that problem).

[Laurierace]

Just in case this has not been said often enough in this thread…DO NOT ride this horse. If your parents/the horse’s owner think vet bills are expensive just wait until they see what long term ICU and years of head injury or spinal rehab cost.