Would also evaluate whether the horse is moving too close behind. My horse fell twice with me at a canter last year over a period of about six weeks. The problem was he was interfering. I put splint boots on all four legs and have since had no more tripping/falling problems.
Please, please, please terminate that lease unless the owner agrees to call the vet or allows you to do so! Her bad judgement is putting you in jeopardy! Have your parents talk to her, if she won’t take the concerns of an 18-year-old seriously. I’m no lawyer, but there must be some level of liability on her part of you are injured by this horse and she has failed to consult a vet. The vet’s bill will no doubt be cheaper than your own possible trip to the local ER.
Sounds neurological to me, and could be very unpredictable. Don’t ride him. Why continue leasing a horse that’s so potentially dangerous?
Prayers for you and the horse. Stay safe.
I appreciate your responses to the thread. With school, appointments, and life in general, I haven’t been on here to check recently.
At the moment, everything seems normal, in the barn. Due to the ice we have, going out of the barn is not an option right now.
Talk to me a bit about EPM. In my (very nonprofessional) opinion, it doesn’t totally seem like a neurological problem that I’m dealing with. But, that is a disease I am not familiar with, so…
Better to have a vet make that call…
agree.
You do not sound at ALL qualified to be making decisions about the health and safety of this horse.
Ya know, truthfully…I can see where grounds for sueing the OP can happen if this ends up getting back and it is something like EPM or whatever…enough time has passed that the owner should have been contacted. I’m not saying this to sound mean to the OP, but has the owner been contacted?
It’s like I always told BOs where ever my horse was, “You aren’t sure, then call me. If you can’t reach me, call the vet, period.” I even had that written in my handwriting on boarding contracts with (and anyone that has seen it can tell you it’s identifyable :lol:).
Hi All
I am new to this forum and have found this thread interesting. Its almost like a “who done it” mystery. A few remarks caught my attention.
- Only falls on the right lead
- cross canters when on the right lead but not the left.
- does not walk straight, but arches to the left.
I don’t know much about EPM other than it is a protozoa found in the central nervous system. 50% of horses tested for EPM test positive, although the majority have dormant protoza. It affects the stride at every gate. In advanced active stages one visible sign is a very relaxed fetlock, giving the appearance of a hind post legged conformation. Could be EPM, but why is only the right lead a problem? Don’t know. I think the problem may be in the left hind limb or hip. This sounds more reasonable to me, but I have been wrong before. The initial and least expensive step I would take is a Chiro. If the problem is in the stifle, hip or back he/she will know. If not, well your horse is going to feel better and no harm will be done. Then call the vet, do a spinal tap for “active” EPM and go from there. My money is on the Chiro. who’s taking bets.
[QUOTE=Appassionato;2181696]
Ya know, truthfully…I can see where grounds for sueing the OP can happen if this ends up getting back and it is something like EPM or whatever…enough time has passed that the owner should have been contacted. I’m not saying this to sound mean to the OP, but has the owner been contacted?
It’s like I always told BOs where ever my horse was, “You aren’t sure, then call me. If you can’t reach me, call the vet, period.” I even had that written in my handwriting on boarding contracts with (and anyone that has seen it can tell you it’s identifyable :lol:).[/QUOTE]
I doubt that the OP could be sued. She’s told the owner about the horse’s falling down and the owner has chosen not to do anything. If I recall, I think I read earlier that the horse had fallen prior to the lease. In any case, now the horse has “a history” of falling down. If providing veterinary care is not part of the lease agreement, then surely the owner should come forward and provide veterinary treatment. The OP’s hands are tied, if I understand her situation correctly.
I feel sorry for the horse and I fear for this girl’s safety if she tries to ride the horse again before getting answers and solutions from a vet. The owner needs to get off his/her duff and call a vet before someone gets hurt or the horse gets worse.
It does seem that the owner, and to a lesser degree, the OP, are treating this pretty casually. If it were my horse, I’d be freaking out. At least the OP is here asking for advice and opinions. Sounds like the owner of the horse couldn’t be bothered until somebody gets badly squashed.
Shilohqh, you give me hope for this thread since so much of it is a “CALL THE VET” or “CANCEL YOUR LEASE” pile-on. I know a horse that falls down occasionally and calling the vet didn’t solve the mystery so I was hoping to see some more informed guesses as to why. This particular owner won’t pay for a major workup in a horse because it is probably going to turn out to be exactly what it is now – a pasture pet. I still wonder why the poor guy falls down though.
In his case, there have been no changes in his circumstances for three years. He came as a long-distance sale with not much of a history but some similarities to the OPs horse. He is terribly stiff to the left, also a problem taking that lead, nervous under saddle. No muscle wasting, no problem backing up, no weight loss, no hoof problems. Melanomas on the outside of his sheath.
On three occasions over a year period he has fallen down like a fainting goat. Once when he was startled by a slap on the rump; once when he was trotting purposefully, and once when he was playing and cantering. All three times he didn’t trip or seem to even TRY to catch or right himself and didn’t panic or scramble but just calmly got back up. On the cantering one he had grass stains all down the front of him from his legs all the way to his ankles. I did seem him trip once and he seemed overly startled about it but he does not trip as a rule. Yes, only a vet can diagnose such a problem but in this case it will remain a mystery unless someone else here has seen a similar problem.
As far as the OP goes, if you’ve seem a similar problem then she may be able to convince the owner to call a vet to check a particular thing, like the EPM suggestion, or the interfering hind legs idea, or the bet on the chiro. Hopefully the answer will eventually be found.
I haven’t read the last half of this thread, but to answer the OPs post about EPM-- one of the first major signs many see is simple tripping and falling down. The only other time I have seen a horse actually fall down, the horse did have nerve issue in one shoulder. Either way, the problem needs to be addressed with a vet.
You mention that he fell down but then wasn’t lame or hurt, so that is why the vet was not called this last time. Honey, it is not the after effects-- it is teh simple fact that he is FALLING DOWN!!! How many people on this thread have told you that is NOT normal and needs to be addressed ASAP.
Call the owner, tell her it has happened too much just to be coincidence. What is in your contract about vet care? When I did leases in the past I was always responsible for the cost of vet care, so if that is the case you need to hold up the end of your lease and get the vet out NOW, before you end up with much worse options after the horse falls down again and gets hurt this time around.
Consider a front pastern problem
Several years ago my horse fell repeatedly taking his right canter lead. It turned out he had low ringbone in the right front pastern. I’m not discounting the neurological possibilities, but it could also be a mechanical issue.
Doesn’t matter if the problem is mechanical, neurological, viral, whatever. The horse needs to be examined by a vet. If the vet is also a chiropractor (we have a few of those around these parts) even better – cover all bases.
The horse is not safe and he needs help.
Ah, see I hadn’t read that the owner did know. My mistake! Hence I asked!
Well…I personally would call the vet (and a very good vet)…but I also wonder how experienced of a rider and horseperson the OP is and if she is inexperienced… recommend talking with someone who knows the horse and is experienced before riding this horse again.
Sometimes it is nothing more then a horse who is week, not balanced and doesn’t have a strong self preservation—or it could be something much more serious.
I have access to more then one top sport vet…this makes a HUGE difference in horse management. Also, being experienced…when I tell my vet something is off…he believes me and we will keep looking until we find it. An inexperienced horseperson might not be able to tell what is a problem and what is a balance issue and bad footing. I also know of more then one indoor where horses…expecially lesson horses and horses being ridden by inexperienced riders… fall down. Speed at the canter and the weeker lead (so he isn’t as balanced) with not great footing in an indoor is often recipe for a fall…and hopefully that is all it is (although I perfer my horses to stay on their feet).
While a BB is a great place for ideas and interesting…it is hard to really know what is going on and before jumping off the deep end with doomsday diagnosis…the OP needs to talk with an experienced person, have them work the horse and let her know whether to push the owner or walk away from the lease.
Personally…the risk to you as a rider is very serious (as well as to the horse) so I would want to get to the bottom of this even if it meant that YOU need to pay for the vet visit (with the owner’s permission).
Good luck.
Okay. Here we go. I haven’t read all the postings since I was here last, but I’ll get there.
Firstly, on what grounds would I be sued? I’ve told the owner. She was THERE when he fell on me. After he fell the second time, I called her, didn’t reach her, and called the next day and told her what happened, including how I feel that the horse needs the vet. I’m not going to go over our entire conversation, but she HAS been made aware. The entire BARN knows that he fell, twice. They know not to handle him, except if an emergency. My trainer knows, and re-told everyone, and reiterated to the owner the need for a vet. Once is a freak thing, twice is not.
Veterinary treatment is not my responsibility per our lease. Of course, neither is hoof care or supplements, but I’m in charge of that anyway. If I had the money, you can bet that vet would have been out ASAP. But, it wasn’t my call. I’m sure most of us know how it is to be in college and low on cash. Whatever comes in usually goes right out to insurance, gas, books, and school stuff. The horse ranks lower than my education.
I’m not going to say that I’m experienced, because I have years to go still. However, I’ve been around horses for an awful long time, and the horsemen that come along with it. I don’t think you can determine experience level from a BB post. Of course, with all the horses I’ve dealt with, they have never had anything but minor issues (except for the blind one), so this is just a wee bit different. And as someone said, I’m pretty close to having my hands tied at the moment.
Believe me, I’m taking this seriously. I’m not just dismissing it, because I know there’s obviously an issue here. And I’m not about to get on and ride him any time soon, considering someone’s already BEEN ‘squashed’ (sorry, Beasmom, I’ll shoot down your theory- the owner was THERE that day- nothing was done). As I sit here all happy and pain-free on my heavy painkillers and anti-inflammatories, I’m looking for clues. And this isn’t the only place I’ve been. If the vet DOES end up looking at him, I need to know where to point first- the money is not there to send the vet checking every single thing, when instead we could just say, “please check this and this and rule them out”. The reason I came here was to figure out what could be ruled out and what could be pointed to.
You know what?
It’s pointless to call the DVM and give her/him a list of possibilities you got from laypeople after presenting an incredibly vague case over the internet.
Most assuredly no DVM I know would formulate a list of tests/differentials to investigate/not investigate based on the information handed him by a kid who got it off the internet.
It might even be considered malpractice. At least incompetence.
If the leading equine neurologist in North America were presented with the information you provided thus far, he wouldn’t even speculate without a thorough hands on examination.
Ditto for a good lameness specialist.
If there isn’t money for you to spend on the vet, I’d drop the lease.
Absent a diagnosis, it’s risky to ride the horse, so why pay for it?
Take the money and invest it in textbooks.
It wasn’t meant in a mean way! I was concerned for you considering what a litigous nation we live in today. I felt it would add insult to injury, no pun intended!
And ditto Ghazzu’s advice.
Appassionato- I apologize, at the time that was how I interpreted it. I do, however, like the pun 
I, personally, think that the owner should be more concerned as there is that chance of something more happening, and where I have a release of liability signed, not everyone else does. Who is to guarantee that despite the fact that he practically has a warning stickied to his forehead, someone won’t handle him? It wouldn’t be the first time a student has mistaken him for one of the schoolies.
Yes, I understand that vet care should be the responsibility of the owner as per your lease. But this sentiment really bothers me. If money–and not the lease agreement–is what’s stopping you from calling the vet, then I agree with Ghazzu, drop the lease.
When your horse needs a vet, you find the money. You make the money. Or you don’t do horses. And yes, I do understand what it’s like to be in college and low on cash. I just graduated from college six weeks ago, the same day I had to euthanize my horse…after treating his illness aggressively for full year. That included a two-week hospital stay, lots and lots of labwork, lots and lots of medications, and over 30 farm calls. I got a second job. I worked out payment plans with the vet. But I got my horse what he needed.
Again, I know he’s not your horse. But if the owner isn’t going to get the vet, and you won’t because you need to pay for textbooks, you need to wait until you’re out of school to own a horse–or to lease one from someone who won’t call the vet themselves.
No need to apologize! Just clarifying that I was trying to think of anything and everything that might happen! 
I understand concerns for the horse, believe me I do, and as much as I hate getting others involved, would it help to get your trainer involved with the owner? I know it doesn’t help the horse, but it appears the horse isn’t going to get help anyway from it’s owner.
