Horse I gave to a friend being starved...advice please

[WildLittleWren]

@SusanO

I am with ML Oaks here. People can be really weird sometimes. I would not give her a heads up about animal control. This is a mustang and they are easy keepers so adequate half way decent hay should keep her in good flesh. I don’t have a mustang but my horses are really fat just on grass hay and a little pasture. They do get a little ration balancer but I could drop that and they would still be overweight.

I have known horses with sweet itch - they rubbed themselves till they looked like crap but none of them lost weight from it. I don’t know what you can do really since you no longer own the mare. And that sucks too. Maybe if she gets enough feedback from different people she will change how she is caring for the horse. I hope so!

Yes I feel like my hands are tied and it is breaking my heart. This mare was my everything for three years. The ONLY reason I let her have her was because she was a friend and her other two horses have always been well cared for, look good, etc. This mare would have gone nowhere else. It’s heartbreaking to see her in such a state, because when she was with me she was shiny, fat, healthy, just an absolutely beautiful mustang. She stayed fat on coastal hay and the minimum amount of ration balancer. I never had weight issues with her. So its either parasites, something seriously wrong with her, or lack of feed/care.

It’s like…the horse looks like a completely different horse, she’s in a sad state, you say you love her, so either step up to the dang plate or hand her back over to me. I would have NEVER let her get to this state in the first place. As soon as the mare started dropping weight I would have had a vet out. She would have never ended up in this sad condition. It just wouldn’t have got to this point.

Apparently animal control has not been out yet, unless she just hasn’t said anything to me. I am not giving a heads up because no one wants to be identified or even remotely attached to the call. Apparently the neighbor says they have a bunch of guns and her husband has a temper, so they want to stay as removed from the situation as possible. They do not want anything escalating or falling back on them. My heart is breaking for this mare. Other than keep an open line of communication with her, and keep an eye on the mare and continue giving advice and continue repeating that I will gladly take the mare back, I just don’t think there is anything else I can do.

[EmilyM]

i’m late to this party, and OP you have done such a great job managing this situation. i’m impressed.
i would offer that if the horse was that miserable from allergies it could have paced some weight off and perhaps make the SI more sore. I have a horse with gnat allergies so bad that if he doesn’t have an in and out paddock he will just run and pace into a lather. he actually injured his tendon doing that this spring. could not even stand to be out for 3 hours in the early morning.

the grain you get from Chewy will help. I wonder if the horse is exposed to insects without cover? do they stable the horses or only live outside? forgive me if i missed that. maybe this horse can’t tolerate the elements (i.e. bugs) in the summer? I’m hoping your fly spray advice to your friend is helping.

i hope she gains her weight and comfort back. Best to you both!

[Christa_P]

If you’re still the owner of record with the BLM could you request a duplicate title? At least to keep just in case.

[WildLittleWren]

I will update everyone tonight, animal control is involved, my friend did reach out to me to let me know, she will not let me take the horse back, but steps are being taken to help the mare…she gets an unscheduled recheck in approximately 2 weeks. I’m at work so I don’t have time to go into much detail, but things are moving. I did request a duplicate title from my contact at the BLM, have not heard back yet, and I also requested a copy of her only current coggins, which is in my name with my vet. I have these on hand, because should she be confiscated the investigator said I would have a very easy time getting her back, with the proof of ownership that is still in my name. I have spoken in depth with the investigator on the case and feel that we are all working together to get this mare healthier and happier. I hope it continues in this direction. The easiest thing would have been if she just gave her back, but since that’s not going to happen I am doing all I can to ensure that proper steps are being taken to protect her. Will update later tonight, I didn’t want to leave everyone hanging but its been a rough, emotional few days and work has been crazy busy, and now my daughter’s gelding is sick so we have been spending a lot of time running to the vet and treating him. Thanks for everyone who has chimed in with their advice.

[trubandloki]

Thanks for the short update. Look forward to your more detailed update.

I am glad the mare is getting the care she needs.

[vxf111]

Thanks for updating

Sending good vibes to all the sick/in need of help horses

[candyappy]

I am glad that AC is involved and that you are ( hopefully) getting the stuff you need to confirm ownership should the need arise. Her attitude is baffling in that she seems reluctant ( or unable) to feed the mare the hay she needs but refuses to relinquish her and professes to love her? I wonder if she is in need of some kind of help herself?

[SecondInCommand]

@WildLittleWren any updates? Surely by now the originally scheduled vet appointment would have happened - did it shed any light on what’s going on with the mare?

[WildLittleWren]

She has stopped communication with me. I did nothing (and I don’t think I said anything), that would cause her to cut off communication. She is still friends with me on fb, but is no longer responding to any messages (not even a hey, how are you doing today?), but they do show that she has read them. I am in contact with the animal control officer on the case. She said that as soon as she does her recheck I can obtain all their records if I go down to animal control. Recheck by animal control should be sometime next week. She did say that if the vet has not been out as promised, and the mare has not gained any weight (or lost weight) by her recheck, that she would bring the local vet who assists on cases (and ironically, is also this gal’s vet), to evaluate the mare, and determine if they have enough to confiscate her.

The BLM still hasn’t gotten back to me on title, and I’ve emailed twice and called four times and left messages. I did a copy of her coggins from my vet, but they are now expired (she’s had the mare over a year…but I don’t think she has drawn a new one). I’m sort of in a spot where I don’t know how to proceed. The animal control officer did state that she provided proof that she had the mares teeth floated in January. Her feet were recently trimmed. She said that she says the mare refuses to eat grain (which is a bunch of BS, this mare loves her food) so she is feeding her Renew Gold, beet pulp (again, that’s not nutritious!), and that she promised to buy quality hay…in fact the last time I had talked to her she had bought several bales of T&A, but who knows if she continues to. The officer asked if she has been deworming her, she told her she refuses to use a commercial dewormer and is instead using diatomaceous earth.

I did push to get the mare back, kindly. I told her I would love to bring her with me to retire in TN when I move, and I’m having a hard time emotionally leaving her behind. She refused to even entertain the idea. The animal control officer said that if she is still concerned at her recheck but they don’t have enough to confiscate, that I should try to find a local or Florida mustang rescue or something to help put pressure on her. She says they are great at getting the media involved and making things happen. However, I REALLY don’t want to go that route. I do, however, want to make sure the mare is taken care of.

Any advice at this point that I’m not doing that might help the situation?

[TKR]

[ATTACH=JSON]{“data-align”:“none”,“data-attachmentid”:“10747385”,“data-size”:“large”}[/ATTACH] FYI - I had a stellar litter of GSD puppies 6 years ago. Their dam was from imported, titled working parents - I had to fly to NC to get her (from AL) and bring her back under the seat of the plane (she was 8 weeks) that same day.

Her pedigree was similar to my heart GSD that I had lost and nothing else would do, so I researched his pedigree and searched for the right puppy. I had frozen from my male’s semen, but he was older, it wasn’t good, and didn’t work. So I used the top sire of working GSDs in the world - Drago von Patriot, who sired many top working dogs in all types of service and Schutzhund and is now in China (cringe!). I wanted another male that I could pick after choosing parents and spending time with the litter.

A friend of mine in KY was doing SAR with his 2 GSDs and had met a guy in TN that wanted to participate but couldn’t afford a good puppy. He convinced me it was a great situation and the puppy would be doing service work, which is what I was hoping for some of them. The puppy he got was my top prospect for Schutzhund and a gorgeous male.

Fast forward, found out he was not with a “real” fire department, not with any SAR group and was a convict on parole. He was working alot of hours and keeping my puppy kenneled for 18 hours or more a day. I hit the ceiling and we argued about it and I wanted him back. I even offered $1K. He moved out from his girlfriend’s who didn’t know about his “record” and also thought he was an EMT/fireman. She loved Bravo (who they called something else). She actually threw him out. He moved around, was in motels, finally rented a house, trashed it, left my puppy in there for several days without food or water.

I had lost touch and track of him, although I was communicating on FB with people that knew him - who he had also ripped off - and tried to help me find him. I called his parole officer and the DA - went ballistic and threatened to “come up there with an AK47 and blow the bastard away” if he didn’t get my puppy back.

I had a 3 page contract and spoke to an attorney, who didn’t think I could get him back and I just told him “you don’t know me”.

I made 2 trips to TN and visited police and sheriff departments trying to get my puppy. He completely went off my radar, but I hired a PI in TN to find my puppy and asked a friend who handled work release prisoners in Alabama, to pick out a big,mean one and I’d pay him to steal Bravo. There was just no damned way he was going to live like that.

Well, after 7 months of relentless pursuit, the ex-girlfriend, who had become a FB friend and was trying to help find him - contacted me and said he was in jail! YIPPEE!! He had impersonated a police officer in one county and was passing bad checks in another and living with another girlfriend in her house, who believed he was an EMT/fireman, etc.

Sooooo - HERE IS WHAT GOT HIM BACK - I got the my sheriff’s department to make a report to the our DA that the puppy was “obtained under false pretenses” since everything was so specific about this exchange. He contacted the DA up there and my husband and I went up to Murphreesboro to the Police Dept. One of the deputies had gone to the jail and had the POS sign a document I sent him, signing over total ownership, registration and microchip ID to me. He had to find out where he was as well. The deputy told him I was going to press charges unless my dog was turned over with a signed document.

So, we followed the Deputy to his girlfriend’s house. We had to park across the street while he went in and put Bravo on a leash. When Bravo spotted me, he literally drug that deputy to me and jumped up into my arms with his forelegs wrapped around my neck. OMG! What a moment! NO ONE thought I would get him back, but I just don’t give up and Bravo was not going to live like that.

He will never leave me - I have a brother, sister and his dam as well. Love my GSDs!!! Anyway, IT’S A LAW - if something is obtained by false circumstances or statements, agreements, you can recover the animal or article. I hope that helps you. I got Bravo’s name changed on his papers and re-issued and his microchip name and ownership changed too. Don’t give up!!! At the top is a picture of Drago (who can also be seen working on UTube) – I don’t have one of Bravo on this computer, but will post one ASAP!

[SuzieQNutter]

Well that kind of explains it. Horse won’t eat grain because it has ulcers and it hurts to eat grain. Horse has not been wormed because of woo woo owner, so not getting everything it eats.

This horse is not being ridden right? And not able to be ridden? This is why you do not give horses to anyone who is not a real rider and riding. You keep forever or put down.

I have 2 horses given to me. They are treated as my own, have a forever home and will stay here for life. Either to live in comfort or be put down. I would never give away.

Dodge is called Dodge because the girl who named him found him in a doggers yard. He just looked so sad that her heart broke and she took him home. When she fed him up and finally got him, she found out he was dressage trained and could jump. It was absolutely criminal that a horse like that ended up where he was in that condition. He is the best horse in the World. Everyone should have a Dodge. He can be ridden by anyone. He rides to the ability of the rider.

That saying I would never take on a horse that can not be ridden and we have 100 acres and make our own hay. You should not expect other people to feed a horse forever that they are not riding. It has been proven time and time again that that is a fantasy and your story is a warning to all.

All I can say is good luck. You have done all the right things. If the cards fall the right way, you will be given this horse. You will worm and the horse will bounce back. That is my wish for you.

[candyappy]

@SuzieQNutter , you make some good points, but I can’t agree with you 100% about someone not taking care of a horse they were given if it couldn’t be ridden. I know of several people who gave horses a forever home who were basically not worth a plug nickel and just took up space and resources. Many horse lovers take and care for unridable horses and treat them better than they do themselves.

Unfortunately the OP couldn’t predict this would happen and based off the condition of the other 2 horses this lady has I am having a hard time grasping why this is happening myself.

It is sadly a risk we take anytime a horse we have leaves our possession, ridable or otherwise. A reason I pretty much keep what I have.

[SuzieQNutter]

@candyappy

@SuzieQNutter , you make some good points, but I can’t agree with you 100% about someone not taking care of a horse they were given if it couldn’t be ridden. I know of several people who gave horses a forever home who were basically not worth a plug nickel and just took up space and resources. Many horse lovers take and care for unridable horses and treat them better than they do themselves.

Unfortunately the OP couldn’t predict this would happen and based off the condition of the other 2 horses this lady has I am having a hard time grasping why this is happening myself.

It is sadly a risk we take anytime a horse we have leaves our possession, ridable or otherwise. A reason I pretty much keep what I have.

Yes it does happen but you cannot guarantee it and once horse has gone you find you have no control. As OP has found it is better to free lease so you can get Dobbins back. What happens when the person you gave the horse to dies and now non horsey family has it? No worming, no teeth done, not fed properly etc etc. It is not their fault. It is better to have the piece of paper and never use it than like in this situation need it and not have it.

[WildLittleWren]

@SuzieQNutter

Well that kind of explains it. Horse won’t eat grain because it has ulcers and it hurts to eat grain. Horse has not been wormed because of woo woo owner, so not getting everything it eats.

This horse is not being ridden right? And not able to be ridden? This is why you do not give horses to anyone who is not a real rider and riding. You keep forever or put down.

I have 2 horses given to me. They are treated as my own, have a forever home and will stay here for life. Either to live in comfort or be put down. I would never give away.

Dodge is called Dodge because the girl who named him found him in a doggers yard. He just looked so sad that her heart broke and she took him home. When she fed him up and finally got him, she found out he was dressage trained and could jump. It was absolutely criminal that a horse like that ended up where he was in that condition. He is the best horse in the World. Everyone should have a Dodge. He can be ridden by anyone. He rides to the ability of the rider.

That saying I would never take on a horse that can not be ridden and we have 100 acres and make our own hay. You should not expect other people to feed a horse forever that they are not riding. It has been proven time and time again that that is a fantasy and your story is a warning to all.

All I can say is good luck. You have done all the right things. If the cards fall the right way, you will be given this horse. You will worm and the horse will bounce back. That is my wish for you.

She doesn’t ride (hasn’t for 20 years). She promised to keep her as a pasture pet, which is all that this mare can be. Like I stated above, the mare would have stayed a pasture pet with me had she not begged and begged me for her, and I thought it was a good home (have known her for years, her other two horses have always looked great). I had planned on keeping her for the rest of her life. Learned my lesson now.

[TKR]

As the owner of record, you could just take her back with the help of law enforcement. Even if she has Coggins and Title, you can just say that paperwork went with the mare while she has her in case it was needed, but the mare still LEGALLY belongs to you. Her condition should make it easier to take her back. Good luck! BTW - she is NOT your friend and certainly not good for this mare and I would leave her behind.

[EmilyM]

I’ll never understand why someone would rather starve a horse than give it back to a good home. I guess mental illness? I’m sorry. I hope it works out for the horse.

[MLOaks]

it sounds like you have gone above and beyond for this horse and AC is doing a good job following up.

Regarding the BLM, they have shrunk quite a bit and a new guy is running the entire East Coast. I just dealt with him when adopting our burros, so, I can PM you his email, if you need it.

[WildLittleWren]

@MLOaks

it sounds like you have gone above and beyond for this horse and AC is doing a good job following up.

Regarding the BLM, they have shrunk quite a bit and a new guy is running the entire East Coast. I just dealt with him when adopting our burros, so, I can PM you his email, if you need it.

Yes please! I had a contact but I hadn’t contacted him for the past year. His name was David Farrar, but I have yet to hear back from him. I also called several times but never got a live person, aside from shooting him an email.

[TKR]

The sweet itch could possibly be resolved with a double dose of Ivermectin - repeat in two weeks.

[SuzieQNutter]

@TKR

The sweet itch could possibly be resolved with a double dose of Ivermectin - repeat in two weeks.

No proper Sweet itch is a hypersensitivity to certain insect bites not something under the skin. It will not resolve while the insects are rife.