Horse people of the north, talk to me about keeping your horse at home

[S1969]

@sascha

No. You said the coldest place for a horse is a stall. You also said the only way for a horse to warm itself is by running around.

Both statements are completely false. Please just stop. You’re only digging a deeper hole for yourself by attempting to backtrack with but, but, but.

Well, this isn’t what she said. It is true that given the choice, many horses will choose to walk around on a cold day rather than stand in a stall. But obviously that depends on so many other factors - wind especially, and precipitation. And in a place like Western NY - snow depth can make walking much more challenging.

In an ideal scenario, horses would have a mix of options. But, an insulated and/or well constructed barn that blocks the wind properly should be fine. I took lessons at a place that had a metal barn - on cold days - it was definitely not warmer IN the barn than outside. Especially if the sun was out and starting to warm things up.

If I had to consider a move to a cold, snowy climate with an elderly horse, I would definitely consider retirement boarding in a warmer climate. I live on the other side of NY and get far less snow, but when we’ve had large snowfalls – it is hard. Hard on the horses, hard on the barn owners/help. A light, fluffy snow is fun. Two feet of heavy, wet snow is not. A good setup makes a huge difference, because shoveling paddocks/gates can be very tough.

I definitely would be very careful about committing to buying property, building a barn, and managing an elderly horse at home versus boarding in a setup that is prepared for the work for the climate.

[sascha]

Pardon? It certainly is what was said.

Here you go:

@ShenanAnna

Why is being in a stall generally the coldest place for a horse? Because the only way they have to generate heat is to move . Think how exercise makes you hot and sweaty. Horses, too.

When you let a horse out in cold weather, what is the very first thing they do? Run and buck. To warm up !

[SMF11]

I really wish so many threads didn’t turn snippy on COTH. Things usually aren’t so black and white, and certainly are not wrt horses staying warmer by moving around vs standing still. Not every barn is warmer, or that much warmer, than moving aroumd outside.

Some situations lend themselves to one solution or the other. There is no one, and only one, right way.

Can we move along?

[sascha]

@SMF11

I really wish so many threads didn’t turn snippy on COTH.

If wishes were horses! (we’d all be broke because too many horses lol)

@SMF11

Not every barn is warmer, or that much warmer, than moving aroumd outside.

Not true. Not unless you’re blowing cold air into the barn or the barn is refrigerated.

@SMF11

There is no one, and only one, right way.

True!

@SMF11

Can we move along?

Sure, when people stop making false statements and claiming they/some other poster didn’t actually write something when that something is exactly what they wrote.

[S1969]

@sascha

Not true. Not unless you’re blowing cold air into the barn or the barn is refrigerated.

I gave the example of a metal (Morton) barn being colder than outside, especially as the sun was warming outside. The inside of that barn was colder than outside for sure.

[FjordBCRF]

I find that most well insulated barns will take a day or so to warm up when the weather outside is warming up. I wouldn’t consider that to really be the same thing though. And I love that cool feeling on the barn on a hot summer day and am currently really looking forward that!

[fivestrideline]

Yep! That’s how insulation works and it’s a fabulous thing to have. Though, an uninsulated barn is just fine in many climates and for many uses

[S1969]

Yes of course - what you get in winter you’ll also get in summer but in reverse. It’s just something to consider. I can remember wishing that barn had paddocks for horses to get outside so that they could warm up better on those bitterly cold days.

Whoever built my barn was very thoughtful in how they aligned the barn with Dutch doors. The doors open up to the rising sun, and the back of the barn (which has a connected hayshed) is against the setting sun and the prevailing wind. So in cold weather, horses can stand in the sun but out of the wind in the morning, and in hot weather the same place is in the shade as the sun gets hottest in the afternoon. Brilliantly done. If done in reverse, they would be in the wind and out of the sun in the winter…and in summer would be baking in the hottest part of the day.

[jvanrens]

@S1969

I gave the example of a metal (Morton) barn being colder than outside, especially as the sun was warming outside. The inside of that barn was colder than outside for sure.

That is after the fact though. It makes sense that the interior of the barn stays cooler for a while. Opening everything that can open helps circulate in warmer air. They will also stay warmer inside when the temperatures start dropping too. When it’s bitter cold out though there isn’t a windchill factored into the barn temperature that I’ve ever noticed unless the doors are open.

[2tempe]

Agree with your points and will add one more: ICE. Any break in temps that starts to melt snow will lead to ice when the temps drop back. I can remember barn gravel parking lots being iced over, walkways to paddocks, same thing. I had a saintly TB while living in Ohio; he would stop at barn door, and then take little tiny steps across the frozen gravel driveway - took forever to get to the paddock… None of these things are insurmountable, they are just harder than other milder climates and winter just seems to drag on.
I feel for the OP; if she does find him a retirement place, that is likely the best decision, but it will definitely be an emotional decision.

[sami-joe]

What we’re all trying to describe and claim as fact turns out to be something we humans are not equipped to sense. Horses’ thermoregulation is not the same as ours. What feels cold to us may or may not feel cold to a well-fed, furry equid.
This study of Nordic horses is one of the best papers I’ve read on the topic, and I am down a deep academic hole with Pleistocene survival of equids and hominins.

[S1969]

Well, yes agreed. But all horses are different - so you do need to be mindful of each horse’s individual temperature regulation abilities. My 29+ year old TB is blanketed around 30-45F which is actually a pretty wide range and depends greatly on wind more than anything else; especially because I want her to be out walking around and not standing in a run-in all day because she’s too cold. My two younger (19) year old fatties rarely wear blankets. One is a hard pass never – as in spontaneous combustion may occur. The other might get one in sustained <20F temps.

[fivestrideline]

Agreed. One of mine gets a sheet under 60 degrees at night, a blanket under 50 (and often a 100g for those weird days in between). Depends heavily on wind and sun, but I’ve found him shivering under his heavy with neck cover when it was 25 degrees. He is honestly hard to overblanket unless it’s particularly sunny.

The other runs warm but doesn’t need to burn off any weight, so he gets a sheet if it’s below 50, but rarely does he get more than a high neck 200g.

Some of our retired yaks only get sheets if it’s rainy or we get a random polar vortex. Every horse is unique, and while generally I would rather under blanket than have them hot, my one guy is much happier bundled up

[PaddockWood]

OP, did you see this place for sale? Sure is cute and 25 min from Buffalo.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/660-Rice-Rd-Elma-NY-14059/82777518_zpid/

But it doesn’t mean it’s right for you or makes keeping horses easy…er. The house needs work but we know horse people first want to see the barn and property set up. That’s what really matters.

You’ve had good advice that boarding sure is easier if you can find quality care. Your 28yo needs to be out moving and not stuck in a stall half the day or more. Like us, they need to be out moving as much as they want. Healthier muscles, tendons, lung, feet and mental state. Certainly have the option to do what he wants. The idea of sending him to Madden’s sounds like a perfect retirement home.

My thought is building is great if you’ve got lots of money. If you do, hey, build exactly what you want and have somebody else handle all the details. And have a GC and the best excavator, builder etc. Then you design it exactly how you want. I built a few years ago and built for efficiency and ease of operations so do have some ideas on all that. And it’s been amazing. And ALOT of work. And no, we don’t have lots of money. We did all the electrical, plumbing and a 100 other things and it was grueling when working FT.

You do know what you’re getting into right? Having horses at home is a lifestyle and 24/7 you have something to do, plan for, fix all.the.time. It’s endless. And leaving isn’t easy. Just last night someone gave me a farm sitter name that has a great reputation and is reliable. That is priceless.

BUT, when your 28 yo dies, are you staying in horses? Will you be in Buffalo a while - 10 yrs or so at least? Is your work schedule flexible that you can be there for the vet and farrier/trimmer? And even more flexible like if somethibg went wrong and you need to work from home for a period of time to cover something going on with your boy? Otherwise, I’d work hard to find an amazing boarding situation.

What I read about your horse and he/she’s been a huge part of your daily life so it is very important he be near enough you can get to him and visit.

[Rel6]

On the general topic of thermoregulation, the Equestrian Voices podcast did an excellent episode on this titled “Why a Hot Bran Mash Doesn’t Your Horse Warm, and other Blanketing Myths Busted with Dr. Deboer.” I keep my horse clipped in Upstate NY and blanket pretty heavily as a result (so I’m definitely not anti-blanket) and really liked how she talked about the science behind horse’s thermoregulation and explained some of the studies done on blanketing.

[Bogie]

@NancyM

The coldest place for a horse to be in a cold climate is IN A STALL. Do not build stalls. It is very important that a horse can move around, run around, to warm up. Put horses in a group, in a herd, and they will move.

I live outside Boston. For the past 15 years I have kept my horse in barns with run-ins rather than stalls. Unless it’s both cold and wet, we rarely blanket. One of the horses is 32 and she does just fine. In the winter we feed extra hay and have water tanks with heaters. The horses can choose when they want to be inside (the barn has a huge, matted run-in area) or out in the elements. They are happy and it’s much easier than having them in stalls.

[Christa_P]

One problem with this place is that it’s right in one of the major snowbelts. To avoid the snowbelts and be able to commute to Buffalo you really need to stay north of I-90.

[Cowgirl]

I haven’t read all the responses, so I hope this isn’t repetitive. What I love about my barn is that I have a 12 foot overhang. So while the snow will fall off the overhang and make a snow wall, my horses can still go out in the covered area and not be confined to a stall. They will paw their way through the snow. I also have really nice steel board fenced runs with gates at the end that allows me to turn them into a sacrifice paddock and then into the pasture. The runs are 50 feet long, but the sacrifice paddock (with stone dust footing) gives them an area to go out together when it’s too muddy or snow bound for the pastures. My barn is well insulated, but not heated, but it only gets below 15 here for a couple of weeks. I would heat it to above freezing if it got below 15 for longer stretches of time. I only shut the run doors on the rare occassion where a storm would blow snow into the stalls (orient your barn against weather patterns).

[PaddockWood]

You make a very good point. I cannot imagine dealing with heavy snow. Since we built there were a couple good dumps - 6 in or so and I’d spend a couple hours just moving snow with the FEL. My guys would get snowed in outside the lean from the build up sliding down the barn.

[RedHorses]

Actually hay nets don’t cause the problems you imagine they do. Horses eat enough for the digestive process to keep them warm even if there’s a net on the bale. Horses eat enough to maintain their healthy weight (barring other health issues) and that amount is enough to generate sufficient heat for warmth. Even when the netted hay bale is out in the open, well away from shelter.

I realize your imagined issues have stopped you from gaining any experience with nets, but this comment is… ohh - maybe you meant it as a joke!