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Horse People - what is up with them?

Hunter/Jumper
#41

Posted by meupatdoes:

I once moved my horses to a barn that swore up and down they would be turned out “as much as possible, weather permitting.” Well, the first week I showed up three times on a sunny, 70 degree day with everyone locked inside in their house. I gave notice and left. This was not incosiderate of my horses or of myself as their owner. Or should I have taken your advice and left them locked up in their 10x10s all day for no reason?

I did not advise you to leave your horse locked up in a 10 x 10 stall at a crappy barn.

#42

[QUOTE=BaroquePony;7773558]
I did not advise you to leave your horse locked up in a 10 x 10 stall at a crappy barn.[/QUOTE]

Well, you sort of did. And you did not answer my question about what is your non-moving answer for a barn that is not a good fit the horse and/or owner.

#43

I have to agree with Baroque Pony. And a Code of Ethics that all reputable trainers subscribe to. And maybe some kind of self-policing system, like lawyers have.

While some of the responses keep hope alive that there are honest, well-organized, caring horse professionals out there, it is quite honestly very depressing how many people have had experiences similar to mine… and it seems others are learning to cope by writing off horse people as “crazy.”

#44

[QUOTE=Alt1Sad;7773570]
I have to agree with Baroque Pony.[/QUOTE]
I guess I should not truck to the park to go riding then, I will be risking my horse’s life and all by not only doing stuff with it at home in the security of my barn.

It would be nice if every person in the world had a code of ethics. But that is not the case, everywhere. Not simply in horses. I do not think horse people are any more crazy or any more unethical than any other group of people. It is pretty safe to say that any group of people really into something are going to be pretty intense about it - some people consider intense as crazy.

Self policing is done by not giving a place that does not fit your needs your money.

And for the record, not everyone wants a well organized immaculately run barn. Some people like a hands off barn owner where the horse owners take care of everything themselves. Some people like something in the middle.

#45

There is a BIG difference in hauling from coast to coast, which I have done, using your own rig, feed and plan, and barn hopping trying to find a barn that actually provides proper care and doesn’t interfere with the welfare of one’s horse.

And it is, or used to be, a common fact that hauling or transporting a horse from one barn to another or over a long distance is stressful and should always be taken into account if you’re showing or whatever it is you’re doing.

Did anyone miss that chapter of horse management?

#46

[QUOTE=BaroquePony;7773619]
There is a BIG difference in hauling from coast to coast, which I have done, using your own rig, feed and plan, and barn hopping trying to find a barn that actually provides proper care and doesn’t interfere with the welfare of one’s horse.

And it is, or used to be, a common fact that hauling or transporting a horse from one barn to another or over a long distance is stressful and should always be taken into account if you’re showing or whatever it is you’re doing.

Did anyone miss that chapter of horse management?[/QUOTE]

No, didn’t miss this chapter, which is why I don’t think moving 20 minutes down the road when a barn doesn’t live up to care standards is a big deal. There are people out there with magic knowledge that enables them to attend a horse show or move to a facility with an indoor for the winter without completely derailing their horse’s equilibrium.

Good lord, the horses who go to Florida have to move a minimum of twice a year. I wonder how they handle the “barn hopping.”

Part of being a competent horse owner is the ability to successsfully transact a move, whether temporarily moving for show/clinic/seasonal purposes or just making the call to move barns.

You can sit there complaining about everyone else not being competent, or you can just be competent yourself.

#47

Don’t know what you talking about. Horse peeps are the best peeps. :cool:

There are shady people in all walks of life. The horse world is just a smaller place I think.

#48

Honestly, it’s not necessarily that I disagree with you here. I also don’t go to the barn for routine stuff. However, I am paying a lot of money to board my horse and have someone with her for shots, farrier, etc. I am also paying a lot for the vet just to come out. If I want to ask questions and be there, I am going to be there. If my BO/Trainer had a problem with that, I would leave.

#49

And we wonder why “trainers today” are turning out RIDERS and not HORSEMEN.

[QUOTE=Vindicated;7772799]

Why doesn’t BO/BM/Trainer want you there. Well, you get in the way and take up time. Specialty stuff, yes please be there. Routine stuff when you are asking the vet/farrier 400 questions-most which are not Actually relevant. It is taking up my time, and the other pros time. For me, it was a matter of expediency. It had nothing to do with hiding anything. It had everything to so with trying to get through 30 sets of vaccines & coggins, 4+ sets of bi-annual injections, and not having extra sets of ears around when discussing other customers horses. See above regarding selling.

If we are doing a lameness exam on your horse, yes you NEED to be there. If we are doing a lameness exam on Suzie’s horse, I would prefer you were not there[/QUOTE]

I guess I was very luckily in that I was young when I was in a training barn (perhaps people aren’t so willing to share knowledge with / tolerate beginner adults?) - But my trainers / vets / farriers seemed to enjoy sharing their knowledge with me. And yes, that meant asking questions and getting answers. I was there to LEARN not just how to ride, but to learn about horses.

My farrier is excellent about this - he likes to SHOW me (he will say, “come here! Let me show you this”) everything he is doing, and explain the whys and hows of it. He will even invite me to get “hands on” and handle the tools.

As a student, when I was handling other horses for the farrier, I found those farriers also didn’t mind answering questions and sharing their knowledge.

And I guess I got a pass during my years as a working student? I held numerous horses for the vet - learned about various aliments and soundness issues. Was invited to watch arthroscopy and scoping procedures - never my own horse, but an opportunity to learn.

Would I have been shunned if I was an adult? Apparently my trainer didn’t seem to think that the health issues were secrets to be kept - rather than an opportunity to learn.

And these days - I am paying for every pro I am using, and I expect them to be willing to answer questions etc. Its part of what I am paying them for.

OP - Maybe you need to find pros who are willing to be mentors - not just check takers.

#50

Often I think that answer to this is actually - yes you would find it very different even with the same people as a novice adult.

In my experience trainers, farriers etc are much more likely to want to answer questions, show new things, explain what they are doing etc to juniors than they are to adult beginners.

It may be that they find juniors listen better, argue less, are less threatening to their knowledge, whatever… but it is something I have seen repeated over and over again. The same trainer that will explain step by step what they are doing to a novice 12 year old will get frustrated and/or be much more defensive with an adult of the same level of experience.

This is not so much based on personal interaction since I have never been a novice adult but it is based on what I have seen of trainer/client interactions over many years and many different barns/trainers.

Not everyone is like this of course but it does seem to be harder to really get someone to teach you horsemanship as an adult.

#51

I think many of today’s trainers have developed a business plan that relies on less involved owners because they feel many of today’s ‘new’ ammy owners simply do not have the time to become as knowledgeable about what their horses need, and it’s just more cost/time effective for trainers to have everyone on the same ‘program’.

Society in the 21st century has less actual ‘free’ time to devote to hands on learning, and the technology at it’s fingertips to ‘research’ anything. Unfortunately, most of the available information has not been filtered for accuracy and/or truthfulness.

This is why there are now a prevalence of overwhelmed, bewildered, or incompetent professionals and/or owners who know lots of things out of context. There is more access to unfiltered information and less time to gain the good judgement that comes with years of hands on experience. And with unfiltered access to both good and bad information, we’re not even able to recognize what we don’t know.

#52

Moving barns may not be ideal but if what you are currently experiencing is not something you can overlook/work around then you really have no other choice.

You won’t change the barn owner/trainer. Nothing you can say will do that.

You have to either come up with an acceptable work around (i.e always be there for the vet, give own meds, whatever), ignore the problem, or leave.

#53

Try eventing :cool:.

#54

I’ve had to move several times- sometimes it was due to an unexpected barn closing, sometimes due to inconsistent/poor/completely rotten care for my horses. My horses were fine- moving isn’t something that needs to be horrible for them!

I’m a really knowledgeable horse owner at this point- I learned a lot of it early on because I was at a great barn as a kid, so I was lucky there. But I’ve had to learn about the nitty gritty of daily horse care- feed and hay and so on- because the owner of the excellent barn I began riding at when I first got back into riding decided to sell up. From that point on it was a hard slog finding good, affordable care with the facilities I need, and options like being able to have my own trainer come in, etc. I was willing to compromise on some of the options (I have my own trailer, for example, so I could ship out to my trainer), but I was not willing to give up on good turnout, good management, good hay, feed, etc. I even did self-care for a while, but it got to be too hard to juggle that with my job.

If you want to be able to know that your horse is getting good care, you need to arm yourself with more knowledge. I’ve been at barns where the BM/BO doesn’t want the boarders to be involved in anything but showing up to ride, and that type of place is not for me. It works for a lot of people but I’ve had too many bad experiences where me not being there leads to poor care for my guys. Plus, I like knowing the details of what they are being fed, their turnout situation, and so on.

I board with a good friend now, so we share things like arranging the vet for seasonal shots, someone being there to hold for our farrier (who LOVES it when I pick his brain), and so on. I like that I can completely trust her with my two boys, and she manages the barn extremely well, but everyone in her little barn is as hands on and involved as they want to be. It took me years to find this type of situation again, but it was worth it. There are plenty of good horse people out there, but you need to be able to educate yourself so you can recognize when a situation is not good, or has become not good. Good luck- it sounds to me like you need to start looking around.

#55

Horse traders are notoriously shady. It’s all about a buck. Not all, tho.

Surround yourself with the best team you can find - vet, farrier, trainers, barn managers, comrades - and you will get the best value for you and your horse.

They are not expensive - not having them is expensive. You will gain with such a team better care, communication and trust. Each will co-operate with each other.

#56

[QUOTE=Vindicated;7772799]
I was many of these. Back I the dark ages when I was a pro.
My biggest problem was wanting everyone to be happy.
“Yes, I will do that for you” No, it won’t be an extra charge" Then I never had the cojones to tell my customers they were asking for too much of me.

Not talking about major stuff. I always tried to fess up to that. However, when your stall cleaner goes home sick the day you are supposed to leave for a horse show and little Suzie’s mom calls to say she can’t make it out to clip Pookie…and no she really does not want to pay for it.
Thats why stuff doesn’t get done on time. I had a lot of clients that thought I was their private trainer. [/QUOTE]

This. OP, multiply all your questions, requests, whathaveyou by the number of people in your barn. It can get to be a lot. Owners think ‘it won’t be too much to ask BO/BM/Trainer/whomever you work with to do X’ but when 10 people have an X that they’ve requested, and pro already has a busy day, well…it’s too much. And many people don’t know how to say no.

Why doesn’t BO/BM/Trainer want you there. Well, you get in the way and take up time. Specialty stuff, yes please be there. Routine stuff when you are asking the vet/farrier 400 questions-most which are not Actually relevant. It is taking up my time, and the other pros time. For me, it was a matter of expediency. It had nothing to do with hiding anything. It had everything to so with trying to get through 30 sets of vaccines & coggins, 4+ sets of bi-annual injections, and not having extra sets of ears around when discussing other customers horses. See above regarding selling.

If we are doing a lameness exam on your horse, yes you NEED to be there. If we are doing a lameness exam on Suzie’s horse, I would prefer you were not there

all this is true as well. It’s always important to remember that while you are enjoying your horse and are on downtime, your pro of choice is at work. Shooting the breeze or talking about why you think pookie needs a change in feed, turnout schedule, shoeing, when everything is working fine and horse is sound, healthy and happy is wasting their work time and pushing their day into the wee hours. If someone was interrupting you at your job with chatter/delaying your work day, you’d probably get frustrated.

Now, that’s not an excuse for pros to be incompetent or dishonest. But it can explain why you aren’t the great client you think you are. I KNOW I can be demanding, but I make up for it in other ways.

Yes, some horse pros are dishonest and incompetent…but that’s not any different than regular folks.

#57

[QUOTE=Alt1Sad;7772439]
I try to be at every vet/farrier appointment. Oddly, that seems to make me a less desirable boarder because yes, I am on top of things and I know what the instructions are.

You are right, though–the fact that we have very few boarding barns within driving distance makes me put up with a lot. That, and the fact that I am a very nice person and try to get along with people.

However, what I have observed isn’t just one barn or one trainer…[/QUOTE]

Please would you like to board with me. I love it when owners are there. Less work for me. Fewer messages and explanations to go through.

We aren’t all monsters, but are only occasionally dragonish. :lol:

#58

[QUOTE=RugBug;7774794]

all this is true as well. It’s always important to remember that while your are enjoying your horse and are on downtime, your pro of choice is at work. Shooting the breeze or talking about why you think pookie needs a change in feed, turnout schedule, shoeing, etc is wasting their work time and pushing their day into the wee hours. If someone was interrupting you at your job with chatter/delaying your work day, you’d probably get frustrated.
.[/QUOTE]

You are not saying that an owner shouldn’t talk to the trainer about concerns regarding the horse’s care, are you? It kind of sounds that way. If I am paying $800+ for boarding/training, I certainly expect to be able to chat with the pro if I notice an issue. Now, if the pro would rather receive those inquiries by email or text, I have no problem with that–they should just let people know that is their preferred method.

#59

Alt1Sad- crazy is one thing but dishonest is quite another. I don’t think I’m crazy and I’ve been in " the horse business" in one capacity or another since I was 13 years old. I’m sure there are people that would disagree with my self-assessment of sanity. As far as dishonest?? I have no patience for that. Whether it’s horses or hamburgers, if someone is dishonest with you, run, as fast and far as you can in the other direction. I don’t know what area you’re in but maybe I could suggest someone to you who wasn’t too crazy but definitely not dishonest.

#60

[QUOTE=HLMom;7775052]
You are not saying that an owner shouldn’t talk to the trainer about concerns regarding the horse’s care, are you? It kind of sounds that way. If I am paying $800+ for boarding/training, I certainly expect to be able to chat with the pro if I notice an issue. Now, if the pro would rather receive those inquiries by email or text, I have no problem with that–they should just let people know that is their preferred method.[/QUOTE]

Not saying that at all. But be mindful of the conversations you are having. Asking if Pookie enjoyed his turn-out today and wanting a rundown if all the details is overkill and unnecessary. Noticing that Pookie isn’t eating the new hay and having the discussion on a way to resolve the issue is just fine.

Lots of people confuse needed information with wanted information. Be considerate and make sure the information you are requesting, especially during peak hours, is really needed (not just perceived as needed) and be respectful of your pro’s time.

Ah, just re-read and see where how you were reading. I edited it to be more clear. The owner that just read something new on the internets and now their horse must either be a victim of said ailment/disease and it must be discussed ad nauseum…or will clearly become super pony because of a new training technique/food/turnout regime are the ones wasting time. The internet is a wonderful invention. It’s also a huge time waster for not just primary users but those downstream as well.

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