Horse property - where to start?

[BalancingAct]

I recently bought 26 acres about 12 minutes from downtown Austin and did an intense amount of research and planning in order to make things run as smoothly and “green” as possible.

-Look into nearby mills that want particular species of trees if you need to clear areas of your property–they will often do it for you for free and pay for the lumber.

-Look into soil/mulch companies and offer your scrap wood that the mills won’t take. The will cleanup, haul off, etc. for free or for a minimal fee.

-If you have buildings you want removed contact metalworkers, landscapers, etc. to see if they’d like the metal, reclaimed wood, etc. That’s a big thing around here and I traded an old metal roof for land grading and drainage.

-If you have any radio towers, satellites, and outdated technology contact the home inspectors in your area. They often know of someone that will purchase and remove it from your property.

-The property we purchased had an old victorian on the property. Before we ever ventured inside we assumed it was ready to be demolished based on the boarded up windows, removed porch railings, etc. After some research I discovered that it was an original house near the capital and was built in the 1890’s. The inside is immaculate with original fixtures, millwork, crank piano, etc. I spread the word to local builders involved with the preservation society and have a line of buyers waiting to get their hands on it. (Its right where we plan on building the barn). If you find a property with an old house you might consider selling it to be moved off to fund some of your plans.

-Also, make an effort to meet the neighbors while you are with your realtor. My realtor arranged for us to meet the fire department, established neighbors, local feed store, community center,etc. So, we can source and plan out supplies, emergency contacts, etc. It was very beneficial.

good luck with your search!

[Tiffani_B]

You guys are so awesome! This is super helpful. Are real-estate agents fairly honest about this stuff (drainage, etc.) Or is it “anything to sell”?

My rule was we always visited the property during or right after a big rainfall if possible. The one we bought was 3 hours away from home so we weren’t able to, hence the discovery of the leaking roofs AFTER we moved in.

[Simkie]

You guys are so awesome! This is super helpful. Are real-estate agents fairly honest about this stuff (drainage, etc.) Or is it “anything to sell”?

Simkie, it sounds like your agent was great and I will definitely reach out once we are ready with a bit more of a down payment in a year or so

Yes, please do!

As far as agents on drainage and stuff…the majority will have NO CLUE and make it up. Or say they’ll ask the owner. Some probably outright lie. But I honestly think ignorance is more common. Verify everything you can with your own two eyeballs

[ladymcts]

I’ve been farm hunting for a few months, for my first one. I’ll probably read the other comments here, especially from folks who have already been-there-done-that. But since I’m a technogeek, I’ll share some of my tips and tricks to online hunting. Because I’m an interwebs addict.

Realtor.com - I tend to use this website the most. I’m not affiliated with them, just find that they seem in synch with whatever’s in the MLS. I am also working with a realtor, and most of the time I “see” a new property for sale online before she gets a chance to let me know. However she usually does a little more research before contacting me, which I think is great.

Zillow.com - I will visit this one maybe once a week instead of daily. It has a feature for “keyword,” so I will look for properties in an entire county that have keywords like horse, horses, pasture, etc. It also offers for-sale-by-owner properties, and “make me move” properties, ones where someone’s only half thinking about it but for the right price they’d move.

Trulia.com - I’ve barely used this one at all.

Craigslist.com - It’s free, so you get what you pay for. Badly worded ads, horrible pictures, people wanting hideous prices, etc. But still, I figure it’s worth a look, and it got me to my favorite property so far, because that property’s agent decided to put a decent ad up on CL.

Facebook - There are actually a lot of for sale groups popping up on Facebook. It can be a good place to find saddles, horse trailers, etc. I’ve not looked at any properties yet posted on there tho.

Non-Digital - yard signs, signs in feed stores, word of mouth, etc. These are even worse than Craigslist! I remember when I first looked for a house years ago, my agent really poo-poo’d “for sale by owner” signs acting all snooty about them. I figured she was just wanting a commission, but sheesh, I have seen one super duper dump that had me worried for my safety, and got my ear talked off by a woman who wants a premium price for a 30 year old manufactured home that screamed 1980’s (even the frilly window treatments hadn’t been updated). But, even so, I don’t pass them up! I keep hoping for a diamond in the rough!!!

Searching Tips - I’ve found that the housing “inventory” around here is so limited, that I don’t use many filters to narrow things down. On Realtor.com, the main thing I use is under the “more” tab, where I can set a distance range of up to 20 miles, and a Lot size starting at 2+ acres. As I mentioned, I’ll check out Zillow for Listing Type = For Sale by Owner and Make me Move. Or will use the “More” tab for Keywords.

Property Info - When you’re visiting a listing on Realtor.com, there’s a section for features that has a link for “more,” which gives things like School information and whatever the agent feels like taking the time to fill out. In here I’m mainly looking for utilities (high speed internet because I work from home), Zoning information (looking for Agricultural, Mixed Use, or None), and lots of times I can find a property tax ID in there … stay tuned for more on that!

Property Tax Maps - I was thrilled when I found this stuff out!!! Not all counties do this, but here’s one for the county with Hardford, CT in it. http://www.hartford.gov/mhis/hartford-gis/interactive-mapping For mine locally, I can take the Property Tax ID and plug it into the website in order to get a good idea of where the property boundaries are. They have disclaimers saying don’t use this for legal reference and may not be accurate, and I’ve noticed the pictures can be years out of date. But still when you’re looking for a horse property and it MATTERS whether the 5 acres is woods or pasture, I find it so valuable to see where the property lines are most likely to be.

Google Maps - After looking at the property tax map, I’ll go out to Google Maps and take a look at the earth view. Most often I find it is more current than my local county’s maps, but it might also be from a different season and give a better idea of the lay of the land. I’ve been finding that for my area, the actual placement of the marker is often wrong by as much as a half mile, so it may take some hunting to find it, but between the two maps, I can usually figure out where the farm is.

Google Maps Measurements - I don’t know when google started offering this, but now I can right-click on a spot on the Earth view map to start measurements! Woo hoo! So I can start planning for how much space is there really for my horses if it’s existing fencing, or where I might want to put fencing in. Sometimes a 5-10 acre property whittles down pretty fast when you factor in the trees, buildings, and roads. When you click a few points on the map and come back to click on your starting point, Google will give you the area in square feet. W00t! (I say few points because it doesn’t have to be a square, you can make a triangle or click a dozen times for a really custom shape, just click a final time on your starting click, and it should give it to you.)

Biggest annoyance I had when I started my search - I had to figure out that the phrase “cable ready” does not mean that cable (or any high speed internet) is actually available at the house. They just mean someone took the time to run co-ax cable to various points inside the house. I now don’t trust anything they try to tell me about Internet, and make sure to call the Internet vendors directly about a specific address.

I got a laugh where someone above said the agent “will make it up.” Yes, this. If they don’t know, they will BS an answer at you.

[Simkie]

Oh, lady, your post reminds me:

There’s a Connecticut Horse Properties FB page: https://www.facebook.com/groups/170560873336973/

It doesn’t get a ton of action, but some.

I also asked the CT Horsey Folks page for leads on FBSOs or not yet on the market properties when we were looking and got some interesting leads: https://www.facebook.com/groups/cthorseyfolk/

Totally agree on your rundown of various online resources–I went about it in the same way. I do know that Realtor descriptions can be pulled directly from the MLS OR updated for much, much more info by the listing agent. That’s why you’ll see super short ones sometimes. Found out about that when we sold our house in MN and I wanted a detailed description.

[OTTBs]

Lighting - and how you will reach it. I was so excited to see the outdoor arena had lights. The outside of the barn has huge lights. The indoor arena has lovely high bay lights. Just wonderful! Until one burns out. OMG. How the hell do you get up there? We still don’t know LOL.
Extension ladder. Scaffolding. Bring in a hay rack to climb on. Cherry picker.

Put in LED lights and don’t worry about it for 20 years (allegedly.) I hope my T5 lights are good for at least 8 years.

[js]

Also, it’s cheaper, not in the literal sense to buy property that already has a barn, fencing etc. at least something that you can live with till you have time and money to do improvements. I say this because to build a barn and put up fencing requires cash; buying those things already existing on a property means those costs are figured into the price of the property, hence your mortgage. Goggle veterinarians, farriers, boarding/training facilities to see if you can find something in an area with other horse properties, makes getting vets and farriers to your property much easier and you can split farm call costs. In our area some vets and farriers are getting fussy about doing small farms with only 2 or 3 horses, they want to do bigger places only, it helps if there are other horse farms near enough that you can get services to your place. Also check to see if zoning requirements for number of acres per horse exist. Also, limitations or restrictions on other pets; something I was not aware existed in many cities and counties, a limit on how many household pets you can have.

[CVPeg]

Absolutely know your zoning. When XDH and I were looking for our first house, he proudly brought me to a “horse property” (marketed as such). A utility shed, perhaps big enough for a mini, was “the barn”, and it was on 4 wooded acres in an area requiring 5 for one horse. Looked the realtor square in the eye and asked about the zoning. She stuttered and stumbled and said that the previous owners had had a pony in the “barn”. Legally? She thought so. Turned out she hadn’t.

And working in real estate, I’ve seen plenty of other properties advertised with “possible horse potential” - that were well outside of zoning requirements for horses.

So before you even get in the car to look at a property, look up the zoning for horses - town’s website, call their offices. Don’t waste a trip when it really isn’t correctly zoned for your purpose.

Good luck, though. Exciting!

[gumtree]

[B]"And working in real estate, I’ve seen plenty of other properties advertised with “possible horse potential” - that were well outside of zoning requirements for horses.

So before you even get in the car to look at a property, look up the zoning for horses - town’s website, call their offices. Don’t waste a trip when it really isn’t correctly zoned for your purpose"
[/B]

When I am using a real-estate agent I make them work for their commission. I don’t want to waste my time looking at a properties that have or may have “holes” that I don’t want to deal with.

“possible horse potential” If I heard that I would tell them to find out EXACTLY if horses are allowed or not.

“So before you even get in the car to look at a property, look up the zoning for horses - town’s website, call their offices. Don’t waste a trip when it really isn’t correctly zoned for your purpose.”

IMO this is part of the THEIR job description. Make a list of zoning questions, farm related questions, and MAKE them take the time to look up all of these details. Download the exact files/links and email.

I was looking at a property that had been on the market a while. The agent was vague about a number of things I asked after looking at the property. I asked repeatedly to EXACT details. Got the runaround.

Dropped a letter in the sellers mailbox that I was interested in the property but their agent was giving me the run around. Not returning calls or emails in a timely fashion etc. I have bought enough properties to know the drill. Gave my phone number. The seller gave me a call and was grateful for my letter. They said the listing was coming up for renewal and they did not renew with that agency.

I did not end up buying it. Found something else in the meantime. But it did sell not long after by the new listing agency.

As others have mentioned and I totally agree. Buying horse property with some existing infrastructure is almost ALWAYS a better deal. Unless the barn, Ag buildings are in extremely poor condition. The cost of rehab and or tear down can cost more than starting with a blank slate. Especially if a new barn is not going to be built in the same spot. Site prep can be very expensive.

A lot of people over built horse infrastructure and rarely regroup 100% of the cost.

[Alpha_Mare]

For northern CT I would be careful to look at the property in winter - as you have the time - because working on a farm in snow/ice is not fun if it’s hilly and/or drainage is bad. I would care a lot about the driveway in case I had to get a horse out to vet hospital or vet in for care during bad weather.

In addition to what others have said, check into any farm tax considerations. It may impact the size/location of what you intend to buy. In PA a farm must be 10 acres but if at least that size it is eligible for favorable tax consideration (saves $). If you are ‘preserving’ land or old building that may be helpful also.

Another consideration, if you are building/renovating, I found it easier to get permits to ‘repair’ than to ‘build new’. Even when the repaired building was on it’s last legs and a tear down, it was cheaper in $ and aggravation to go that route. ALSO if a farm has been subdivided some buildings may be too close to the lot line for current regs but if existing may be grandfathered as permitted in that location.

[Alpha_Mare]

CT - consider winter weather

For northern CT I would be careful to look at the property in winter - as you have the time - because working on a farm in snow/ice is not fun if it’s hilly and/or drainage is bad. I would care a lot about the driveway in case I had to get a horse out to vet hospital or vet in for care during bad weather.

In addition to what others have said, check into any farm tax considerations. It may impact the size/location of what you intend to buy. In PA a farm must be 10 acres but if at least that size it is eligible for favorable tax consideration (saves $). If you are ‘preserving’ land or old building that may be helpful also.

Another consideration, if you are building/renovating, I found it easier to get permits to ‘repair’ than to ‘build new’. Even when the repaired building was on it’s last legs and a tear down, it was cheaper in $ and aggravation to go that route. ALSO if a farm has been subdivided some buildings may be too close to the lot line for current regs but if existing may be grandfathered as permitted in that location.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=Alpha Mare;8998273]
For northern CT I would be careful to look at the property in winter - as you have the time - because working on a farm in snow/ice is not fun if it’s hilly and/or drainage is bad. I would care a lot about the driveway in case I had to get a horse out to vet hospital or vet in for care during bad weather.

In addition to what others have said, check into any farm tax considerations. It may impact the size/location of what you intend to buy. In PA a farm must be 10 acres but if at least that size it is eligible for favorable tax consideration (saves $). If you are ‘preserving’ land or old building that may be helpful also.

Another consideration, if you are building/renovating, I found it easier to get permits to ‘repair’ than to ‘build new’. Even when the repaired building was on it’s last legs and a tear down, it was cheaper in $ and aggravation to go that route. ALSO if a farm has been subdivided some buildings may be too close to the lot line for current regs but if existing may be grandfathered as permitted in that location.[/QUOTE]

“Another consideration, if you are building/renovating, I found it easier to get permits to ‘repair’ than to ‘build new’”

Like you we are also located in Chester County. Building permits and the amount of hoops one has to jump through is Township specific.

We are located in Highland Township. Here it is VERY easy to build, renovated just about anything on one’s property. If I want to build a new barn all I have to do is basically go to the Township and show them what I am building and pay a small fee permit fee. If I want the work verified, built to code it is up to me to hire a building inspector and paid for their service.

Land preservation is area specific also. In Pa the property generally has to be of a specific size, its location and be sub-dividable for residential development. If the property qualifies the state may buy the “development rights”.

I have built things in a number of different areas of different states. Some make if quite difficult and some make it very easy. When I buy property I check and see what the building rules and regs are. I try to avoid areas that make it difficult and expensive.

[fourfillies]

Ladymtc’s list is great. I’ve been looking to move out of the 'burbs back to a farm. Our County Property Tax also allows measurement of acerage. Huge upgrade over the last few months, can get a good sense of property lines, proximity to neighbors, setbacks and how much useful land (clear). Allows me to use a screenshot to manipulate barn placement/fencing virtually. If I can’t make that work saves me the hassle of a “go see”. As others have said, I have found most of the seller’s agents either are clueless or just make stuff up. A little prework saves a lot of hassle and cuts the BS.

One thing I haven’t found a good online resource for is discovering pipelines or other “buried treasure”. I feel in love with a place only to find out pretty fair down the transaction road the disclosure of a “buried propane tank” was the sellers disclosure of a sizable natural gas PIPELINE running the length of the 7 acre back pasture and adjoining 10 acre hay field. Sellers agent was like “oh yeah … that”. Really?!?

[OverandOnward]

I would mention two things …

Neighbors with adjoining property
Several posters have mentioned neighbors. You want to avoid moving in next to neighbors who turn into an endless misery. Either due to conflicts over your horses, or their animals, or because they are just crazy malignant neighbors (they do exist and there are no signs in their yard to identify them).

• How long have they been there? The longer they’ve been entrenched, the more likely the neighbor will win all disputes.
• Do they fit the neighborhood? If they seem to have something going on that is not like the rest of the neighborhood, there is a much greater chance you and they may become a chronic annoyance to each other. And not much tolerance for it on either side. Different types of animals, no animals, odd activity they do outside, super-sensitive to everyone else’s activities, etc.

Talk to the neighbors of the neighbors, the people on the OTHER side of them. Carefully and tactfully figure out what those people think of the people you would be living next to.

Property lines & Fencing … and Neighbors
Get an honest, forthright, correctly-priced assessment of what it will take for you and your adjoining neighbors to be happy. And not challenging the your fencing needs, now or later, physically or legally.

You can read many a COTH thread on creative fencing to get around the neighbors whose dogs come racing onto other people’s property, neighbors who are pushing the fencing boundaries, neighbors who are unkind to the fence. Etc. & so on.

If you need to pay for your own fence inside your property line and then plant bushes or something to maintain your own property line rights, or if for any reason you do not want to share fencing and costs with the neighbors … you want to know that before buying.

The costs related to fencing can go well beyond the fencing itself. Surveying. Existing growing things that need to be removed. Growing things that need to be added. Extra costs to make the fencing happen the way you want it, working around all the issues with that property.

Good luck and happy farm buying!

[Wojjie]

Kodidog763 - check your PMs.
W

[starhorse]

I’m here to bump this up.

So… we think we might buy this spring/summer, instead of next. If we don’t see what we love, we can still wait another year, but we’re starting to really look. It’s really overwhelming to consider everything we need to consider.

Beyond the property, we’ve started thinking about what we’d need (tractors, truck, trailer, oh my!) and it’s just making my head spin a bit. I suppose we could buy the property and bring the horses in a year or two?

If anyone knows specifics of properties/horsey communities, we’re thinking about Granby, Suffield, Simsbury, Bloomfield - would consider as far north as Enfield/Longmeadow. I didn’t grow up around here so I’m not sure what’s what.

Someone tell me it’s going to be OK! :lol::o

[poltroon]

Ha ha ha. I won’t promise you it will be OK. I will promise it will be an adventure!

You will need things like a tractor and truck and trailer… eventually. But maybe not right away. You can hire neighbors to do your tractor work and you can hire hauling. Both are something of a pain but unless your lifestyle is set up so you need them right away you might get away with some time on those.

I would say having a pickup truck is probably the first thing you’d want. It doesn’t have to be shiny and gorgeous, it just needs a bed and to be reliable and with enough power for your eventual trailer.

Whether you need a tractor regularly when you start is going to depend some on the layout and needs of your place. You might even be able to buy one that the owners already have.

Make sure your place will have a good place to ride because if you don’t, you won’t.

Driveways and paths are easy to overlook, but they will affect your enjoyment considerably if they are mucky, and driveways are surprisingly expensive to build.

[Christa_P]

One thing I haven’t seen mentioned is driveway access, especially for trucks and trailers. Make sure you can get a decent sized truck and trailer in and out of the driveway and turn it around.

Also, where will you park and store the various vehicles - is there enough, easily accessible, room?