Horse Purchasing: Trainer and I disagree! What do I do?

[paw]

Just jumping in to add… the purchase price is only the start. Are your folks already affording you the board/training/upkeep on the horses you’ve leased? Shows, too, can be expensive. It might be wiser for you (at 16 and planning to go to college) to either buy a “fun” horse to keep locally that you can maybe move up to showing the 3’ on or look at what a lease at the show barn would cost.

You sound like you’re happily busy at this point in your life - what are you thinking you’ll give up to have the time to invest in a more committed relationship with your own horse and showing?

Sorry it’s so complex.

[Scribbler]

@celine.eq2023

I agree with the lease, but I think you are being unreasonable.

I am only 16, not a 35 year old. I am young. Of course I will miss my connections and my lesson barn because I am 16 and not as mature as an adult. I understand the analogy but its different when you have been at a barn for many years and have made lots of friends and formed a community. It is hard to leave and say goodbye. This is not because of immaturity but rather because of the bonds I have formed. I 100% understand why I should move! Its harder though than just moving, because of the emotional attachment.
Heart VS Mind.

This is indeed a hard thing that we need to do at many stages in our life. Move away from our current friends family town comfort zone, into a new place, in order to reach goals in life. We do it when we go to college, when we leave college for a job, when we relocate for a better job. It’s hard. And you don’t know in advance if it will be worth it. But on the other hand you know for sure you won’t reach the goal staying where you are. I don’t know if you will be overall happier staying with your friends at cow pony barn or going to try out show barn.

What is the boarding budget? Putting your relatively expensive WB in full training at show barn will help get you to your goal, but it is likely double what it would cost to keep a QH at cow pony barn.

Finally, if you want to excel at anything you do need to start focusing. If you’re going to pay $60k for a horse and $8k for a saddle and $2k+ a month board then you’re going to need to make this your Big Full Time Activity and let some other things drop. And have you priced A shows? It’s about $5k a show all told I think. Are your parents ready for all of this?

Finally ask both Show Barn Trainer and Cow Pony Trainer the questions someone else have you about “how to get there from here.” My guess is Cow Pony Barn doesn’t have a clear path for you. But Show Trainer might also feel you aren’t ready to be showing 3 foot 3 either. Listen to what they say.

[celine.eq2023]

Thank you for chiming in! I didn’t realize the complexities of buying a horse and keeping the horse. I knew of the extra fees of boarding and medical etc but this made me realize how many factors are involved in purchasing! One day I’ll do it hopefully sooner than later.

Also good point with the activities. I would have to drop a lot of them which I would be willing to do, as Horseriding is my passion, but I don’t think my parents would be thrilled to hear that haha.

[FjordBCRF]

@celine.eq2023

My feelings are that I know now that I need to move barns to accomplish my goals but am having conflicting feelings about leaving because I have many friends there. It is hard for me to watch my friends at the show barn ride every day and go to shows often which is why I want to move barns to only my show barn.

There is a parallel conversation going on with an adult poster that is having the same challenge about leaving her barn and long term community for the safety and care of her horse. All that to say, I wouldn’t be surprised at 16 years old, this is one of those first tough life experiences…and there will be MANY more for you!

More of life advice than this specific situation - we can’t do it all. And if we try, things will bend and break down somewhere else. I’d encourage you to really start to think about what matters the most to you going through a potential barn switch.

Not completely the same thing, but when I was your age, I had been naturally talented at the flute from a very young age (and could pick up and figure out other instruments by ear). I easily won first chair up until that point with ease and was invited to participate in my cities youth orchestra which the invitation in and if itself is an honor. Anyways. When I got to high school, marching band was a requirement to be in the symphonic band. Marching band had a huge summer commitment for practice, band camp, and then of course all the practices/games in the fall. That interfered with my horse, my show schedule, and quite frankly it wasn’t something I had ANY interest in doing.

My parents helped guide me through this decision, and ultimately let me make it myself. We did talk to the band director about seeing if we could work out an arrangement that would still let me be as active with my horse, but they didn’t want to make exceptions. They also didn’t want to lose me, but their offer of one less day of practice a week didn’t cut it. So I quit! And I disappointed my band director and some friends…the second chair flute was THRILLED . It felt like a hard decision to make at the time, but I felt better after making it. And making it for MYself.

To this day, anything I take on I make very deliberate choices based on how it will impact my horse time. That’s what matters most to me as a 40 year old.

There’s been a lot of good advice on this thread. I agree with those encouraging you to lease a higher caliber horse at the show barn. That is an opportunity that not everyone has, and to not maximize it and your show potential would be doing yourself a disservice EVEN if it means you only get out a few days a week because it’s further away. Finding the horse you’re looking for could take a lot more time than getting into a lease and immediately starting to get to work towards your goals.

[rennyben]

I think - even at 16 this is too big for you to be making these decisions. I would talk to your parents and let them know what your goals and dreams are. Tell them the sacrifices and commitments you’re ready to make. Then it’s up to them to request meetings and have the conversations with both of the trainers and make the decision.
When my daughter started getting serious and talking about “the big eq dream” I asked our trainer if we could schedule a parent/trainer conference.
We asked how realistic is this goal? What will it require show-wise - what would that cost? What extra training will be required- what will that cost? Our trainer broke everything down for us - the options available and budget required for each path. (Your parents will also need to ask each trainer about their previous experience getting riders to your goal level successfully.)

At the meeting my husband and I were able to say, we can afford this much showing/training so lets go with this goal/option and build a plan.

Some great things came out of that meeting- all of us are on the same page. Bills aren’t upsetting and we don’t feel pressured as parents to do more than we can. Our daughter is thriving and having a wonderful experience bc she is being challenged but not given unrealistic expectations.

Bc here’s the reality:
Your parents may say yes we can spend 50-60k on a horse. But then be unable to spend:
Board at show barn - 1-3k/mo vs maybe $750/mo at lesson barn
10 A shows a year at $3,000 each vs 5 local shows at $500 each with lesson barn
Additional vet services such as injections/chiro/etc - possibly 3-6k/year
Possibly more expensive farrier - from maybe $150 every 6-8 weeks at lesson barn increases to $350/4-5 weeks
Or they may say, gee we can do that - go for your dream!
These aren’t decisions you should be making in your own. I think you need an honest conversation with your parents and they need to meet with both trainers and decide.
And this advice goes for any kid and parents - no matter what their age.
Good luck!!!

[fivestrideline]

Not sure if you’ve taken some time to dig around on here OP, but check out this thread

Real talk: What's everyone paying these days?

So, it seems like many barns these days are claiming that inflation is hitting them hard and telling customers that they have to increase prices. I mean, I get it. It’s not just happening with horses and I’m well aware with fuel and hay prices going up this year, we know it’s been harder than usual. However, it’s a constant conversation lately about how things are getting super expensive and lots of people that I consider on the rather wealthy side are even hinting that they’re worried and pot…

It’s lengthy, but it may give you an idea of what you’re asking when you say you want a Big Eq horse. Keeping in mind that $60k won’t buy you a finals horse, but it might get you something to aim at that ring locally and certainly could get you a jumper if you have the right trainer and a good foundation (especially if you’ll look at OTTBs and other off breeds).

I throw this out there because I think you’ve got great goals but haven’t had a good chat with the right pros to see what is realistic for your budget and time. If your parents aren’t ready to let you drop basically EVERYTHING ELSE in favor of pursuing the horse thing, you may actually be better off leasing an Appendix packer type at the local barn and pursuing the (previously called) C circuit locally.

ETA: you really need to sit down with your parents and trainer (maybe a chat with both trainers, separately) and talk goals/money/buying vs leasing.

[Fiesta01]

@Tha_Ridge

Perhaps trainer is looking for a “cow pony” because a similar warmblood-type in OP’s budget might indeed be fragile by way of a bad vetting or a whole or quirk.

Or maybe, the parents put a bug in the trainer’s ear, without telling OP, about the price they’re willing to pay.

Generally speaking, I would think cow ponies as a whole would be less expensive than warmbloods as a whole. (Not saying there aren’t expensive cow ponies).

[enjoytheride]

While WBs are more likely to hit the upper ranges of prices, competition in the “cow pony” circuit can be stiff and 60k wouldn’t be out of the question. However, that kind of “cow pony” has never seen an english saddle before and it wouldn’t make sense to look for a jumper in that world.

That said, it seems the parents have set a 60k limit and there is no earthly reason a trainer would be looking at a cow pony for a junior with the financial means to show in the 3’ 6" jumpers. That is a very reasonable budget and I assume the parents are also aware of related expenses.

[LiveTheDream]

I’ll chime in as I was in your shoes many, many years ago, albeit I was too young to drive.

My non-horsey mother spoke to the then trainer-helping-us-find-a-horse. She laid it out clearly for my mother in terms of horses, trainers, facilities, and finances. My mom then distilled that information and had a frank conversation with me: (a) buy a horse, keep it at a facility over an hour away, and ride only on weekends, or (b), buy a horse, keep it locally, and ride daily. She nixed (my) option ©, to do both for obvious reasons. She also made it clear that I may need to re-evaluate my goals.

Many posters have provided helpful advice. My suggestion is simple: whatever you end up doing, try to keep the “woulda, coulda, shoulda” to a minimum. I am wishing you happiness on your journey, wherever that takes you.

Note: after all these years, and many horses later, my mother’s favorite breed is still the quarter horse.

[Sabino]

Are you parents involved in this at all? I would talk to them - tell them what your goals are and get them involved with the discussion with the trainer. They should tell the trainer what you are looking for, how much you can spend and where you should be looking for said horse.

Maybe the trainer would be more willing to do what you (and your parents) want instead of what she wants. After all, you (and your parents) are the ones paying for the horse.

[ShenanAnna]

I think that fivestrideline hit the nail on the head with “what is realistic for your budget and time.”

[alpine1]

This is not a complex situation, especially for someone who has loads of money and lives in a major coastal US city. You say you’ve been riding hunter/jumpers since age 6 and you currently train at two different barns–you should be pretty established in your local “horseriding” (?) community. Forget the trainer who wants you to buy a little western horse and work with the trainer at the show barn. No trainer is going to turn down the opportunity to sell you a $60,000 show horse (or find one for you). The end.

[Equibrit]

Forget it until you earn enough to bankroll your own mistakes.

[alpine1]

If this is a real situation, the parents have been in the horse world for ten years too. They’ve been hauling this kid to and from barns, shows, paying for lessons and leases, etc. Even if they were not particularly horsey to begin with, they would be now, because they’ve been dealing with all this stuff (including expenses) for a long time. Any parent with a kid who rides/trains/shows for ten years is steeped in the world because they have no choice. They would have strong opinions about this situation and not just be silent partners.

[Bluey]

@alpine1

This is not a complex situation, especially for someone who has loads of money and lives in a major coastal US city. You say you’ve been riding hunter/jumpers since age 6 and you currently train at two different barns–you should be pretty established in your local “horseriding” (?) community. Forget the trainer who wants you to buy a little western horse and work with the trainer at the show barn. No trainer is going to turn down the opportunity to sell you a $60,000 show horse (or find one for you). The end.

That bolded is what show barn trainers do for a living, use that trainer if that is what you want.

[MsM]

First, OP, sit down with your parents and discuss what you want and what is practical. Be honest about your time commitments and that you would intend to drop some activities if you go all in on riding. Be sure they are comfortable with the ongoing expenses.

If you are dedicated to going all in as a Junior rider, research what that involves. If local trainer is not already taking students to shows at this level, you would have to move to the show barn. Find out the costs for training and showing. What are the expectations for showing - away shows involving hotels? Does this trainer feel you are ready for this step?

If the barn family is important to you and you want to stay there, maybe you have to scale back your ambitions. Maybe this would be a better life/horse balance. Many dream of riding at top levels, but even if your parents can swing it financially, it may not be the best path. A horse that is a “step up” but not as big a step that can take you to local shows at 3’ or a little more to own or lease may get you a better experience.

Bringing a horse to college is difficult and can be expensive with a long commute depending on your college. And the cost of course! And are your parents on board with paying for all that and allowing you to continue showing while in college?

A lot to find out and discuss with all parties involved.

[findeight]

Additional thoughts for OP to digest…no judgement included.

“Cow pony” trainer may not have any trustworthy contacts with anybody offering well started, 60k WBs. Its not what she is good at or even wants to do. She also may not be able to leave her business to travel outside of a days drive to test ride and evaluate a prospect for you. She sounds like a smart gal. May not be right for your dream goals but she runs a good local barn from what you share. And she might be considering what your parents have actually told her.

That 60k WB will likely cost you an additional 12k in commissions, 1500-2500 for a PPE. If it does come from out of the local area, there will be additional travel charges for trainer and you to travel, evaluate and test ride, plane ride, rent car, hotel and the cost to ship the horse to whatever barn you chose ($1a mile or more).

Ask the show barn trainer exactly how much board and (usually required lessons/training) will be. How much they charge for trailering your horse to the A show, how much they charge for day care ($50-$125 a day) and how many days the horse would have to be there (usually between 5-7. Per week). Some run 2-3 weeks. Oh….you’ll need a new saddle and show outfits. Lets not forget coaching at shows-lessons and warming you up for your round then critiquing after. This is all on top of entry and stall fees at the show.

Most barns have a rate sheet. Sometimes on their social media pages or just ask them for one.

Get the actual facts on actual costs, thats the Adult thing to do.

Just put this out there, that 60k would get you a dam good Stock type horse that can jump around very well with lessons and shows and maybe new show clothes too

One other thing…have you sat down with parents and had a discussion about what they can afford to pay? Total costs monthly? Will they back you on a car or have to keeping driving you? Ask them to tell you the TRUTH. Its a tough conversation but at 16, you should be willing to hear it.

The best thing my folks ever did for me was tell me the truth about what we could afford. It sucked but helped me deal with the reality and aim for attainable goals.

JMO but never, ever ran into any 6-9 year olds who really knew what it actually cost. Some did not even know “their” Pony was leased, not owned.

[NoSuchPerson]

OK, I’ve just read through this whole thread. Maybe because I read it all at once, the oddities of the posts made by the OP really stood out. Pretty much every post contains something that is “off.” Wrong jargon, atypical phrasing, internal contradictions, word choice…

It seems pretty obvious to me that the OP is not being honest. Younger than stated? Much less experienced with horses than claimed? Person whose primary language is other than English getting some English practice? Troll just trying to set a new record of how long she can keep this thing going?

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Sooo a few things:

1. The amount of cow ponies going around in the 3’ are minimal. There are some really transitional horses out there that can, but they are the exception rather than the rule. It’s not that they can’t do the height, it’s more times than not that they can’t do the step.
   So either trainer isn’t prepared to take you above the schooling hunter 2’6-2’9 heights and expressly wants to keep you in that safety zone, or they are slightly delusional.
2. Do your parents understand the long-term costs of buying and keeping a horse? When they say 50-60K, are they aware that this comes with a 15-20k minimum upkeep per year between shoes, board, recurring vet bills, and supplies? If not, that needs to be expressly explained to them that if you intend to show, 25-30K per year min should be their expected out of pocket.
3. When you say you’re doing 3’3 at home… are you coursing 3’3 or doing an occasional oxer or fence at that height? Sounds like maybe the better option is to find something that can do the 3’-3’3 (also potentially easier for that budget to find one) and go from there. Big difference between 2’9 and 3’6 courses and probably better to get that under your belt first.
4. You are 16. Has the discussion happened yet about college and plans? Are parents expecting you to sell the horse or lease it when you go to school or are they footing bill for tuition and horse? I’d be asking these questions to get a better understanding and to set some expectations for both sides. Ideally, if you’re planning on only having horse for 1.5-2 years before you leave for school… maybe find something that’s going around at 3’ with some potential scope to go higher with a pro that can eventually be ready for you to move up on.

I don’t ask these questions to be snarky. I’ve just had a few kids that believed they were capable of much more bc they’ve done a few higher jumps and felt like that’s where they belonged. From a safety aspect for you and your animal, these are heights that need to be respected and brought along naturally, not abruptly because you think you’re ready. My friend’s barn had a girl that was about 16 and when she moved in she had a cow pony that she claimed she jumped 3’ on all the time and was a “catch rider”. A quick Facebook and USEF search showed a much different story that the real truth was a beginner eq/hunter height and that maybe she did an occasional 2’6 in lessons on another school horse. Poor pony was a “hony” and didn’t have the step or lead change to be competitive in much else than the low jumpers. She threw a massive fit that she was being held back and they left the barn in a huff, but realistically, she was truly a 2’3-2’6 rider at best that thought she belonged in a much more competitive group, but didn’t have the mount or the skills quite yet to be there.

[OntheFnce]

Additional costs to include: farrier, insurance, medical/body work, training, saddle fitting, show/training fees, shipping. You mentioned going overseas to purchase, have you factored in importing fees? $50-$60k is not exactly a large budget for Big Eq/jumper horse (3’6-3’9 horse).