Are you in Glenmore?.. Sadly, I don’t see a positive future there based on what I have seen elsewhere. Sorry.
I have a question. Are all of the people driving this new? Are any new residents horse owners, or are they all the people who want a country lifestyle like a Disney park? This manure on trails issue may be the first salvo from a bunch of people who will never stop trying to get rid of the horses.
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I know OP is in a HOA community but if you have a horse you Will Face the same issues.
The small town I live in started in the 1950s as a horse friendly community even had its own riding club and outdoor show arena. As Fort Worth surrounded the town and new communities developed we are now in the middle of several million people. But we still have horses here, there must be about one hundred or more.
How can this be?
We embedded the concept into the city charter’s master plan that one of the primary reasons the city was founded was the preservation of rural lifestyle which included owning livestock… Without due reason the city cannot enact an ordnance which restricts or prohibits horse ownership. 100% of the restrictions on the books regarding all animals are health and safety concerns either for the animals’s safety or the human’s welfare and safety… all reasonable short statements easy to understand without grounds for questioning, what a normal person would be expected to do.
If you have livestock at home you need to be active in the local community’s governorship, be on those god awful committees that are dominated by some do goodie who will not shut up to corner their instance with a calm reasonable counter remark. Just be there to protect your rights, otherwise that loud mouthed person will take them.
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Bolding mine. Clanter, if you have the language used in this case, I’d love to read it. I realize that the OP is in an HOA and you’re referring to a city charter, but I think it would be interesting to see how it is phrased and what exact restrictions are in place.
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I will pull it out of the city ordinances …its nothing dramatic
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first we specifically defined what horse is
Livestock means:
(1)
Large livestock: Horses or any member of the horse family except miniature horses, including but not limited to, mules, donkeys, and ponies; and all types of varieties of cattle, bulls, and all members of the cow family.
(2
Small livestock: All types of domesticated sheep, goats, ostrich, emu, or miniature horses
next we specifically stated what an animal related nuisance is
Sec. 6-72. - Animal nuisances.
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(a)
Nuisance animals defined; declared unlawful. The following shall be considered public nuisances and shall be unlawful:
(1)
The keeping of any animal, which causes frequent or long continued odor or stench that is offensive to a person of normal sensibilities on adjoining, adjacent, or neighboring premises.
(2)
The keeping of any animal in such a manner as to endanger the public health; to annoy the neighbors by the accumulation of animal wastes which cause foul and offensive odors, or are considered to be a hazard to any other animal or human being; or by continued presence on the premises of another.
(3)
Animal pens, stables or enclosures in which any animal may be kept or confined which, from use, have become offensive to a person of ordinary sensitivities.
(4)
The keeping of bees in such a manner as to deny the lawful use of adjacent property or endanger personal health and welfare.
(5)
It shall be unlawful for any person to keep or harbor on his premises, or in or about his premises, or premises under his control, any animal, which by loud or unusual vocalizations shall cause the peace or quiet of the neighborhood or the occupants of adjacent premises to be disturbed.
(6)
It shall be unlawful for any person in control of an animal, to allow such animal to defecate on any private or public property, other than that of the owner, and not immediately remove such defecation.
(b)
Remedial requirements for the owner of a nuisance animal. Any of the remedial requirements described in section 6-2 may be imposed on any animal found to be in violation of this section.
then stated sanitary requirements (note the inclusion of “free of odors offensive to persons of ordinary sensibilities residing in the vicinity.”
Sec. 6-75. - Sanitary requirements for keeping of animals.
(a)
Generally. The owner or person in possession of animals shall keep yards, pens, and enclosures in which such animals are confined free of odors offensive to persons of ordinary sensibilities residing in the vicinity. Such pens and enclosures shall be kept clean to prevent the breeding or attracting of flies, mosquitoes, or other noxious insects, and shall not in any manner endanger the public health or safety, or create a public nuisance.
(b)
Sanitary regulations for initial pens or enclosures. All persons keeping such animals shall comply with the following sanitary regulations:
(1)
Manure and droppings shall be removed from pens, stables, yards, cages and other enclosures at least twice weekly and handled or disposed of in such a manner as to keep the premises free of any nuisance.
(2)
Mound storage of droppings or manure between such removals shall be permitted only under such conditions as to protect against the breeding of flies and to prevent the migration of fly larvae (maggots) into surrounding soil.
(3)
The feeding of vegetables, meat scraps, or garbage shall be done only in impervious containers or on an impervious platform.
(4)
Watering troughs or tanks shall be provided which shall be equipped with adequate facilities for draining the overflow so as to prevent the breeding of flies, mosquitoes, or other insects.
(5)
No putrescible material shall be allowed to accumulate on the premises, and all such material used to feed which is unconsumed shall be removed and disposed of by burial or other sanitary means.
sometime afterwards this section was added defining the number head allowed:
Sec. 6-272. - Keeping of cows or horses.
It shall be unlawful for any person to keep a cow or horse on any premises, the overall area of which is less than one-third of an acre for each cow or horse kept, or keep more than can be cared for under sanitary conditions and not create a public nuisance and, in no event, exceed the permitted number of adults and their foals or calves up to six months of age. The number of cows or horses permitted shall not exceed one adult per one-third acre for the first acre, and two adults per acre for each additional acre over two acres of a single tract of land
I have not questioned this but I do not think it is not worded correctly as the acre between one and three namely acre number two does not appear be usable as it is not included in the allowable use
here is the link to the city codes, go to chapter six for animals
https://library.municode.com/tx/richland_hills/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=PTIICOOR_CH6AN
I will find the master plan next
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Each state has its own rules…which is why you can’t just lift verbiage from someplace.
For example, in clanter’s post above, if a municipality tried to enact the whole section “Sec. 6-75. - Sanitary requirements for keeping of animals” would be considered in violation of state law in PA.
In PA, farms are required to have a Manure Management Plan. If you are in compliance with the MMP, and any and all other state agency requirements, DEP, etc…it is considered illegal and a breach of the Right to Farm Act for a local township to enact these restrictions.
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did find something of interest in the master plan
These lots range in size from a half-acre to about 2.5 acres and generally have an open, rural atmosphere compared to the surrounding neighborhoods. During the citizen survey, many of Richland Hills’s residents identified these large lots as a desirable trait of the community, and therefore no changes in the character or zoning of this area are proposed at this time
with an expectation of redevelopment with extension of a street through our back pasture
Additionally, roadway connections, particularly a connection of east-west Brooks Avenue, may be desirable in this area,
we have stopped this before as we own the center lot in this proposed extension of Brooks… I have repeatedly told the city I would give the proposed right of way to the Audubon Society as an inner city bird sanctuary and let the city deal with the Audubon Society
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You are in their gunsights…Just tell your heirs to watch their backs…
A friend sold her family farm that had been in the family for generations to a developer when she decided she couldn’t fight city hall and long-term plans were to punch a highway thru her hay field.
Maybe get a garden club to come in and do a talk about how horse manure is gold, that rose gardeners would pay for it. Or buy a bag from your garden center and show how they can get it for free instead of pay $xx. Also, look into rules in very upscale horse friendly areas, like Aiken SC, Weschester County NY or Tryon NC and show how these communities seem to deal just fine and attract very rich tax payers.
Thanks Clanter, very interesting.
That’s great, except it’s not ‘gold’, it’s more like raw crude. You have to refine it for it to be good fertilizer. it has to sit and compost for a while to really be useful. Here is one of many articles discussing the fact:
https://homeguides.sfgate.com/long-wait-before-using-horse-manure-garden-71634.html
I find the pretentiousness on this thread amusing. Horse manure is NOT “safe” and “non-smelly”. I get that people feel that others are encroaching on “their” property, but keep in mind that people often do not move to more rural areas to get closer to animals as much as they are looking for lower cost of living and a safer area to raise a family.
Also, the time of day or season that the new neighbor looked at that house may effect how they thought the neighborhood would be. In the winter, the smell is less strong (and yes, horses/farms have a smell that no everyone finds pleasant), in the evening the new neighbor may not have seen the manure pile right next to their property line, they may come at a time of day that you are not riding so do not realize how dusty the arena is, etc.
Realtors use all these tricks to sell houses that are otherwise difficult to sell. I remember a teacher telling me she liked her house but it was by far the nicest on the block but she didn’t notice because it was “only available” for viewings in the evening. During the day, you realized how shabby the rest of the neighborhood looked. Interestingly, while she felt a bit “had” she used the same trick when selling her house.
So, if you approach this with some understanding that not everyone is a horse person and come up with some good compromises on the books, I bet you will have a fine relationship with your neighbors, overall.
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I think the difference that matters quite a bit in the OP’s situation is that the OP lives in an Equestrian community.
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What you’ve written makes good sense and is probably good advice for folks in exurban areas, but please remember the OP is living in a development that was conceived and developed as an equestrian property. And that is one of the key selling features of the neighborhood - riding trails and a community arena.
You can’t argue that someone who bought a home in an specifically designed and developed equestrian community didn’t understand they might encounter horses in the neighborhood, regardless of the time of day they visited.
You have to question why someone who didn’t have horses would want to move into such a community. in my limited experience with such communities, you pay a premium for the community amenity - the riding trails, arena and horse owning neighbors
We’re one of the few horse owning households in our neighborhood, there used to be a lot more. We are VERY careful about manure management, kicking it off trails others might use, going back and picking it up if it’s close to someone’s house. We’re also pretty careful about our pasture management, picking up and composting manure, being careful that it isn’t an eyesore or an assault on other senses. And we are especially considerate to the neighboring landowners that allow me to ride across their property.
But I would assume that people move to a deeded equestrian community when something like my situation breaks down, or they want to be surrounded by other horse owners.
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For both, I think that depends on if this is a deeded Equestrian Community or considered a “horse friendly” community. I would imagine (though I could be wrong) that a deeded Equestrian Community would already have rules on the books regarding manure removal, care, maintenance, etc. If it is sold as “horse friendly”, then it may be sold as “horse friendly” to one person and “rural” or “family friendly” to another.
I am thinking of the example of a golf course a few towns over. They built a bunch of houses and townhouses in a “deeded golf community” and it came with certain rules, including mandatory membership to the golf course it abutts. Houses didn’t sell so eventually the deed was changed and they are now sold as “golf friendly” and some of the rules (mandatory membership, parking restrictions, fencing restrictions) were no longer in play. That golf course was not doing well before the houses went up and is continuing it’s decline towards bankruptcy.
*see first sentence of first post -
Three years ago, my wife and I purchased a home in what was billed as an equestrian community.
To me, that does not necessarily mean deeded.
Rarely is “compromise” a Bad Word. But it is ALWAYS a word that suggests a “two way street” and an understanding of the underlying issue(s). If you live in an equestrian community, deeded or just “friendly”, you ought to be charged with the knowledge that horses are big, smelly, loud creatures fart as well as st and fk in public. They are WAY too often portrayed as “magic” and “mythical” and possessing near supernatural qualities. I watched the PBS program last night and saw those traits specifically recognized. I didn’t see one horse take dump or engage in making new horses. The general public watches something like that and is horrified when they learn how much a horse eats and how much manure it creates on a daily basis. People who watch this stuff and buy into it are not easy to compromise with because the don’t love horses, they are IN LOVE with horses. And that’s a very different thing.
I would NEVER live in any community governed by an HOA. They are, in general, the closest thing to tyrannical government you’ll find in North America!!! If I were advising someone this is the advice I would give. If they decided they were going to do it anyway I’d tell them to get and read the HOA rules and review State law on enforcement of HOA rules. I’d also ask to see the paperwork on the last 10 enforcement actions the HOA took against property owners. You need to know not just the law as written but also the law as applied.
G.
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People move to the country so they can look like those people on the cover of LL Bean catalogs. We all know this. They want the -look- of country without actual country.
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This is why the recommendation is to look at what are the CCR’s.
I live in a planned community with an HOA. I am very sorry that I moved here. The rules change constantly, officers are always fighting amongst themselves. They hire idiot management companies that do nothing but mess up the books.
i never want to live under the thumb of an HOA again.
now, if your horses are making manure in someone’s yard, I can understand them wanting it picked up,especially if they are not horse people (though why would anyone move there if they weren’t is beyond me). But, to want trails cleaned up is insane! Good Lord, step over it it’s only horse poop!
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I think the poster that said some want to live like they’re on the front of an LL Bean catalog nailed it. I still remember the article about the people that moved way out to the countryside in Loudon, and moved back a year or so later. They didn’t realize they had to arrange for driveway plowing, that there would be wild animals running around, strange noises at night, and it would be scary when it got dark, because there are no streetlights in the woods.
There are realtors that make a great living near D.C. selling and reselling to people who think living out in the countryside will be great, and then reality sets in.
Why do I suspect the people in the original posting want the trails reserved for them to walk, and take fluffy for walks, and don’t want that spoiled by people on horses?
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