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Horse Sales Practices - Am I Being Unreasonable?

A couple of things jump out with this, however, what hasnt been pointed out is doing the PPE after an offsite trial would be a hard NO for me. Years ago a fairly well known trainer in my area would ask for this and ride the c@@P out of the horse in the days leading up to PPE. He would use the “soreness” to get a great deal on the horse.

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Yeesh! What is wrong with people? :frowning:

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No away trials, allow them to come and try more than once, if need be. spicy makes a good point

Honestly, if they are being shady in a money deal what else are they shady with?

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Make the bill of sale between you and the trainer. Tell trainer to wire you the funds, not her client. Then the trainer will have to get a new BOS signed in order for her client to switch ownership with USEF. Won’t be your problem anymore.

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Yeah, I had this happen too—after they’d had the horse on trial/short-term lease for almost a month, they decide to vet her and claimed all sorts of things. Huh, maybe that’s because her feet were at nine weeks by the time you decided to vet her. :upside_down_face: They lowballed me, and I had them put her on a trailer the next day. She sold a week later for my asking price. Life’s too short to play games with bad actors.

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If the trainer would lie to her OWN CLIENT… why wouldn’t she lie to you, a total stranger? And you’re going to send your horse to her for a trial and trust that she’ll do what she says during that trial period? And what if the buyer later discovers what happens and blames you for going along with what is clearly self dealing and deceit by the trainer?

I’m telling you, this deal is bad news. Don’t find a clever way to work around the trainer’s dishonesty… just find another buyer.

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Ditto the previous comments. Trainer is pulling a fast one.

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Are you being unreasonable? Absolutely not. I’d absolutely decline to do business with this trainer in any way, and I would tell the buyers why.

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I really like this idea!!!

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I don’t know where you are located, or the sale price of the horse, however Kentucky law prohibits “dual agency”, and not just for racehorses. The trainer you speak of is dubious at best. The horse should be sold by the owner to the buyer with the price of the horse stated on the bill of sale.

Any commission should be worked out between the buyer and their agent, and the seller and their agent.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/166062/dual-agency-bill-signed-by-kentucky-governorhttps://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-racing/articles/166062/dual-agency-bill-signed-by-kentucky-governor

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How many times has Roffman been sued at this point?

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@LadyLawyer, this is an example of the dishonesty that turns parents away from buying their children horses. Many, many kids have had their horse experience stopped before it began, or shortly afterward, because people that can afford to buy a horse for their child usually have some experience in the business world, and are thus horrified when they see the sleazy business practices of some trainers.

There are good trainers out there. Don’t let your friend become involved with the dishonest ones.

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THIS. If trainer is “buying the horse”, then bill of sale spells out buy price in that agreement.
They can create a new BOS between client and trainer with whatever number they’d like to attach.

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Isn’t that just enabling the fraud?

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What @vxf111 and @skydy said.

Holy shizzle! So you are not just watching with a box of popcorn, but you are part of this deal? And you are working for the seller?

I think you have an obligation to your client, the seller.

How far does that extend?

If you are kind of a dick, you don’t explain what is going on with the other side and don’t worry about it. You do, however, insist that the buyer (apparently the trainer) send the deposit. At a minimum, you need to return the parents’ deposit so that your side (you and the seller) are not colluding with a trainer who looks to be ripping off their client.

If you are less of a dick, you explain to the seller what appears to be going on. Some people would believe that this is trainer-instantly-flipping-horse deal is ripping off the seller since, in theory, the seller could have made more money selling directly to the buying parents. So why should the seller take the parents’ money as a deposit and make it easy to have everyone ripped off?

You get to decide. But I would not, in a professional capacity, be part of facilitating a deal that you know will rip off someone involved. If this blows up, you will get some shrapnel in the ass.

ETA, I think you are already in a little deep and I would choose the Squeaky Clean (non-dick) approach. That’s because, from what you have told us, the trainer walked in asking the seller to collude in ripping off the buyer/their client. That’s the moment at which you had the opportunity to protect your client’s interests. You weren’t sure, so you posted about it on the internet. So now the Internet knows that you knew (or suspected) some collusion was in play. I don’t see how a reasonable person would think that it was OK that the only lawyer in the situation just let this slide, unless you mean to argue that it was in your best client’s interest to sell for the price the trainer will pay, despite knowing it would be just about simultaneously sold for more.

The trainer who wants to cheat clients this way should at least have the funds to do their own buying.

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In the case posted, not only did the buyer get ripped off but so did the seller by not getting the actual money the buyer agreed to pay. So here trainer is essentially trying to be a double agent except to the benefit of themselves. They inflate the price offer to their client and get acceptance. And then basically ask the seller to waive their right to get that new price. Except they’ve given seller just enough knowledge to get themselves in trouble.

Purchasing a horse from a seller’s agent or dealer is done all the time but key words being seller’s agent.

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Also 100% no to a PPE after trial.

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Unfortunately this happens A LOT.
The honest pros make sure that money goes directly from the buyer to seller… when it ends up going through a 3rd party, I always assume someone is padding the bill or that there’s more than one agent getting a cut. Particularly if the trainer is working hard to keep each party separated.

My last few sales experiences were fantastic. Everyone was very upfront with all the of details and it was all documented in writing. I got to review sale contracts prior to signing, suggest any additional language or clauses, review insurance details, and commissions were agreed upon prior to signing off on sales. Former owner and I for horse that I bought are still in contact very often. Horse I sold is doing well and we get updates here and there on his progress, along with following him on social media.

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All: I have also expressed the same concerns to my friend and despite significant push back to the trainer, the true sale price was disclosed to the buyer by my friend. I appreciate all your insights. Horse sales can be messy, but our goal is to always be transparent and I believe we were able to protect not only my friend and her interests but also the buyer from a shady trainer!

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