Horse Shopping - Homebred and Trials - Red flags?

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

There is a very funny video that I’ve seen shared on Facebook a few times about “kid safe.” The guy says buyers ask if the horse is kid safe and he goes off on a riff on what kid safe means.

Well, it depends. You got one of those mean little kids like you see running around on some half-wild horse all over the rodeo grounds or you got one of those sweet little kids? 'Cause if you got one of those mean kids, this horse will be just fine for 'em. But not if you’ve got one of those nice, sweet little kids.

[vxf111]

Of course kids are all different levels. But when someone asks if a sale horse is “kid safe” the person generally means “tolerant of imperfect handling and riding by a smaller person.” Nobody says “kid safe” and means “my kid who just ran a 3* prelim course.” Kids vary by talent level but the term “kid safe” does have a specific meaning.

Parents can be blind as heck about their kids but that usually swings the other way. Those parents don’t ASK for kid safe because they assume their kid is so skilled s/he can ride the Black Stallion.

When someone shopping for a horse asks “is it kid safe” we all know generally that that means “is it tolerant, quiet, and reasonably broke/handleable.”

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

@vxf111

When someone shopping for a horse asks “is it kid safe” we all know generally that that means “is it tolerant, quiet, and reasonably broke/handleable.”

Of course we do. But that doesn’t make the memes - or the video I mentioned - any less funny.

[Foitin]

Love this. God willing I will benefit from this knowledge in the future!

[ThreeWishes]

Lol! Love it. Btw first pic looks like the Bob Thomas Equestrian Center in Tampa Florida at the fairgrounds. Love it there

[To_the_MAX]

If you’re worried, I would ask them to haul him to a local show or another barn that would be convenient for them so that you can try him off-site.

[trubandloki]

@Dappled.Hunter I just want to say that I think these were good questions. Better look at a horse purchase and ask questions than to just go along and find out later that you should have questioned that point.

I do agree with most of the posters here, none of what you posted seems like a red flag to me.

[Tha_Ridge]

@OfCourseItsAnAlter

I’ve got a horse for sale right now. There is no way that I would let someone take him on trial. The risks are just too great. If that means you won’t buy him, fine. In this market, there are plenty of other buyers out there.

Same. I’m selling one as we speak and have been firm in no trials—still have two folks in three days fighting over who’s going to get their deposit in and vet her first. She was listed for sale on Tuesday. There is no need, as a seller, to make any concessions right now.

[mvp]

OP, you sound very risk-averse.

The only thing I’d add to others who wouldn’t be bothered by anything but point 3 is:

1. If the horse isn’t shown off the farm regularly, assume he’ll be concerned and “a different horse” off the property.

2. I think it’s reasonable to ask to try the horse somewhere else, but the seller might disagree and move on to the next potential buyer who is less work.

3. So how much of a horseman are you? Horses can be made to be rideable in any reasonable situation, given enough time and skill (and sometimes some cajones) on the rider’s part.

3a. How is the horse’s work ethic otherwise? The spoiled horse is going to have a harder time learning to Just Man Up And Do His Job when he’s away from home than will the horse who has been coddled more.

In your shoes, I’d ask a lot of questions about the horse’s behavior at those local shows and how they got him ready to show. I’d make my own assessment of his work ethic while I was trying him at their farm. But I’m not sure I’d ask for an off-farm trial myself.

[touchstone]

Of the three, the only one that would concern me is the lack of a show record. It is helpful to know how the horse will act in a different environment, and no amount of trying the horse on their property is going to answer that question completely. I would want to see either videos of the horse competing at local shows or show results form the local show association records–ideally both. I don’t think the horse needs a USEF record to be appropriate, but I think it is reasonable to want some evidence that the horse will play in a competitive environment.

I bought one like this a few years ago. But the owners could demonstrate that the horse was division champ of their local show association, and showed videos of multiple outings. That was as good as a USEF record for my purposes.

The idea of asking the owners to haul him to a neutral site for a trial could also work. But good luck getting someone to do that for you.

[nycjumper]

1. Not a concern. I’d want to know what he has been doing but that’s it.
2. Completely reasonable. We very rarely will allow an off-site trial. Too much risk.
3. Do they have videos of him showing? Does he have a local record? `I wouldn’t worry at all about his not showing for the past year and a half - plenty of horses didn’t. But if you’re buying him to show - you do need to know he can do the job for which you’re buying him. It would certainly be reasonable to ask if they would consider doing a “show lease” where you pay X to be able to show him at a local venue and of course cover all expenses while he is there. Assuming all goes well and you buy him - that could be applied to purchase price. If you don’t - the owner gets to keep the lease fee.

[Mulligan314]

1. Not concerned

2. I would see if there is a way for you to come in and try the horse out/take lessons several times since the barn is close. It’s not surprising to not be offered a trial period.

3. Hate to be a downer on Show records, but my horse does have a USEF record but is still hard to handle off property…just because it’s there, doesn’t necessarily mean anything. Pictures and video from the class wouldn’t convey the difficulties behind the scenes and how long it took to get him comfortable in the arena either. No shows in the past year is not shocking. Up north, where they took lock down far more seriously, most of our qualifying breed shows were cancelled. So many that they had to remove the majority of the qualification requirements from our national show. I seem to recall the only states that were able to put on one or two shows were mostly in the South…with maybe one hosted in Ohio late in the season.

[Moneypitt]

Breed shows? In hand classes? Or?

Wouldn’t a ten year old horse be beyond the in hand classes?

Certainly, a USEF performer show record is useful to validate show experience and how competitive the horse was in those venues? In hand classes do not necessarily correlate with future performance classes. **Keeping in mind, one area’s USEF Champion might be middle of the pack unsanctioned ribbon earner, depending upon location.

Of course; there are those horse breeders/sellers that promote every horse as top quality stellar 5* potential worthy. Upon closer inspection find the majority of their horses have been for sale forever… or they are selling horses across the pond site unseen.

I may exaggerate a little but buyers really do need to educate themselves as much as possible. And or aline with a trusted trainer/coach to guide them.

[Mulligan314]

My previous horse had records in open and breed competition(not in hand), still not easy to handle. I not saying, ‘don’t look at it’ … It was more of a ‘it’s not always what it seems’

Also, seeing this occur with homebreds of other trainers that end up getting put on the back burner for years because their clients are more important. Nothing against the horse, nor the trainer…So, maybe a 10 year old is NOT past in hand classes. Who knows.

And, you are absolutely correct, In hand does not necessarily correlate to under saddle…but I never even mention In Hand, so I’m not sure why it even matters. Though I would like to note that my guy is better behaved under saddle than he is in hand…

All I said was getting at is that USEF show records don’t necessarily mean all is right in the world. That’s all. Didn’t think that would get backlash…but here we are.

[Mulligan314]

The OP mentioned using the USEF show record not to determine wins, but to have ‘reassurance that he is safe, or at least manageable, in the show setting.’ My comment was to convey that a show record does not always equate to this. It doesn’t matter what type of class horse is in… breed show…in hand…whatever. I, personally, would not trash a horse due to the lack of a show record.

[Moneypitt]

Hmmm… you pretty much indicated you think a USEF show record was inconsequential. So, I was trying to clarify, your comments by asking about in hand classes, because it seems as if ‘you are trashing USEF show results’.

[Mulligan314]

Nope. Just said USEF results don’t necessarily correlate to having a well behaved horse on the show grounds, which is why the OP referred to the results, or that is why they stated the desire to see results. Apologies that it wasn’t made clearer. And I don’t care about In Hand results. Mine or others. feel free to trash as see fit. I appreciate having something to put a young horse in, but I don’t see it as carrying weight…nor does it display the horses ability to be handled on the show grounds.

So, I still stand by what I said. My horse has a USEF record but it does not necessarily correlate to his ability to be handled on the show grounds. It does not convey the amount of work it takes to get him prepped, mentally, to walk in the ring right now - and I’m not saying at-home prep, I’m talking prep on the show grounds. Again, this was what the OP brought up. Not me.

I’m not against show records. And I didn’t say ‘trash the show records’ I actually said ‘I wouldn’t trash the horse because of a lack of show record’ but also that a show record would not be a clear indicator of what the OP had mentioned and therefore shouldn’t be a red flag.

[Moneypitt]

OP is concerned the horse will not act the same at a show vs at home.

That has nothing to do with actual show results. The show results serve to prove performance at a certain level and competitiveness.

The horse in question does not have a USEF show record of results.

The OP should seek out some reliable sources that know of the horse to find out about behavior at the local shows owners state horse was at. Since the horse is local to her it should not be that hard to do. Ask around.

It could be a gem.

[Tiramit]

I may be reading into things, but it sounds like “homebred” is somewhat of a negative to some people? To me it sounds like the horse hasn’t incurred the many upcharges and issues associated with changing owners frequently and, given that they’ve kept him that long, is probably a pretty nice dude to be around. It also suggests to me that his price is lower than it would have been had he been someone’s homebred in Europe.

And while is may not be the case here, the timing of this sale could relate to something outside of the barn… Perhaps a pandemic? Some people have had to deal with some tough finances in the last year. His owner may have intended to keep him for the rest of his life and life may have forced a change of plans. You may have stumbled onto a lucky opportunity.

[OfCourseItsAnAlter]

I’m confused. Why do you keep arguing with @Mulligan314 when you’re actually just saying the same thing she/he did?