Horse shopping on a budget - does this horse exist?

[beowulf]

I don’t think it’s wrong to be realistic with your budget, and to be honest with what you want in your future partner. That being said, it would be challenging to find a purpose bred WB for 10k in today’s economy. I don’t know how breeders make any sort of profit in our post-COVID era.

I would ask your vet if they know any clients selling, to start. My vet and my farrier are the two biggest gossips in the good way; they’re always asking me if I know someone looking for XYZ on their clients’ behalf.

With your budget and expectation, I’d be looking at foals. Your money would go a little further than started or backed.

Would you consider a sport-bred (genuinely unraced, and farm does not race) TB? If so, I know of someone selling a nice solid bay filly that just isn’t what they want for their breeding program.

What do you mean by “upper level dressage”? What is the likelihood that you’ll compete PSG in the next 10 years? I don’t say this to poke at you, I know you’re a great rider and horse owner - but… if you were willing to throw away the “purpose bred” and “must have upper level potential” requirements in favor of “fun to ride” and “affordable”, there’s a whole subset of horses that fit your bill. Mustangs, saddlebreds, and standardbreds don’t seem to hold value well and are common and easy to buy.

I’m pleasantly surprised by the two mustangs I’ve seen recently. I agree a morgan fits your bill perfectly but they are not easy to find and don’t always have great canters.

FWIW. You described my horse to a T – well, except for the fact that HE is a gelding. But… he is a Thoroughbred, and I really think he is rather quintessential in what good Thoroughbreds bring to the table. He is not an exception of the norm, he is part of an exceptional breed and I always, always enjoy riding him. I don’t always enjoy riding the fancy, purpose bred WB filly (who I love just as much). So… take that for what it’s worth.

[Willesdon]

Heart and mind. Find a horse with with a good heart and good mind and they can take you to places far beyond initial expectations, particularly with dressage as correct training will develop and build an all round horse. Look for some American breeds that are not fashionable in Dressage such as Saddlebreds, Standardbreds or Morgans or one of those AQH that are almost full TB. More Saddlebreds and Morgans are being produced for sport.

[fordtraktor]

You will be able to find a nice weanling in that range. Maybe a yearling. I would go that direction because anything older is likely to have some issue.

[Edre]

I will say it “exists”, but you had best know where to look and with your wishlist - I think you are looking at unstarted young stock (and quite possibly, foals/weanlings).

One thing: You have a heck of a wishlist here. I would suggest separating "MUST HAVE"s and "IT WOULD BE NICE TO HAVE"s. Figure out where you can negotiate.

Also identify: what does “upper level” dressage mean to you? through 4th? Or are you looking at PSG+? It sounds like you want a horse who can be trained for the movements rather than be competitive at shows so you may not need the 7-8-9-10 mover (which will probably be the purview, and the purchase price, of professionals/competitive riders. Which isn’t to say that inherently means more money to spend but, you know what I mean).

I got what you’re looking for, but I bought her at 5 weeks old and it was a gamble. I have also spent approximately the same as her purchase price, in board and training. It’s easier to spend over months rather than one sunk cost, admittedly, but that’s just something to consider: do you have a trainer you can get involved with the process since many amateur owners should have some form of guidance through the process of young horse ownership?

Your budget and dressage wishlist to me sounds like “I’m going to be buying an unstarted horse or taking on an older one stepping down with maintenance requirements” but the latter doesn’t really match your necessary crosstraining wishes (depending on what maintenance is required - might not be wise to jump) while the former means you are purchasing potential opportunity rather than proven capability.

If your heart is set on “warmblood” (this is how I interpret “purpose bred” btw) then join breeding groups. Find people whose programs sound like they produce what you’re interested in and research them. See who is out there, what their programs are, and what their price points are. Be aware: not all young horses will automatically be affordable, I know of one already that is being listed (in utero) at 25k USD and based on performance of full siblings, the buyer can absolutely request that price and will probably get it. Most breeders I have spoken with over the years are really helpful. Be honest (so as to avoid wasting their time) about your desires, your budget - even if their horses are outside of your price point, many I have met are still eager and enthusiastic to help possible buyers learn more about programs, how to evaluate foals, and how to find what you are looking for.

eta: I also agree with posters above who mention thoroughbreds. I know quite a few who fit your requirements over the years. They have been sound, enthusiastic partners for their riders up the levels.

[kaya842]

@beowulf

What do you mean by “upper level dressage”? What is the likelihood that you’ll compete PSG in the next 10 years? I don’t say this to poke at you, I know you’re a great rider and horse owner - but… if you were willing to throw away the “purpose bred” and “must have upper level potential” requirements in favor of “fun to ride” and “affordable”, there’s a whole subset of horses that fit your bill. Mustangs, saddlebreds, and standardbreds don’t seem to hold value well and are common and easy to buy.

Quoting as I think this is more direct than what I had originally posted and getting at the same idea. OP - what is the end result you have in mind? Showing and getting your Bronze? Not showing but running through the tests at home? Which is (realistically) more important, good on the trail (sensible) or the purpose bred/ flashy mover? IME those a very much not the same. I’ll say it - you will not find a purpose bred WB with upper level (meaning PSG +) potential, that is steady on the trail, has the fancy gaits for $10K.

If you give up the gait and breed/ purpose bred requirements, you’ll find a large number of horses who could suit you nicely. I just saw a video of a girl who had taken a drafty type appy colored horse (it was some breed I can’t remember) with very average gaits and had developed it into quite the nice dressage pony doing the “fun” UL movements (changes, piaffe/ passage, half pass, pirouettes). Would the pony get a 70%+? Or maybe even 60%+? Likely not but it looked safe as could be and likely was very affordable when the girl bought it.

ITWM - If I wanted to be decently competitive and get my Bronze, I’d look at TBs and TB crosses. If I had no desire to compete, I’d look at any horse that was sound and safe (then look at its conformation) and make my goal to develop it.

Buying a foal could get your purpose bred and WB within your budget (maybe) but then you have 0 idea of what it will be like to ride, will it be safe on the trail? Will it hold up to developing up the levels? Perhaps that’s a risk that you accept, perhaps not. If I were set on needing something either safe or that would hold up to a certain level of work, I’d buy something that has a history at the level of work/ safeness needed (and I did!).

[SusanO]

From watching Warmbloods for Sale and Face Book - I do think that foal prices have come down. The really expensive horses, either a top prospect, trained third level or above, or imported, have not. I think you could find a foal in that price range that might fit your goals. And I have seen a few horses already started that might be close to your budget. They may not be top prospects or really flashy but you really don’t need that to meet your goals. You need a good trainable brain and three decent gaits. I agree with you on the feet!

[Incantation]

Ok, I forget about purpose bred. What I actually should have said is a horse to whom dressage comes relatively easily - so good conformation for it. I don’t want to be fighting the horse’s conformation. I would love a nice TB cross, I just haven’t found any, or they were larger than I want. I really don’t want a 17h giant. My favorite horse to ride of all time was my Old/TB. Yes, I want a mare this time around. Preferably something registered that is nice enough to be bred at some point should I choose.

eta I don’t want an older step down horse. I want something I can keep for 20yrs. Young is ok. If I get a baby, I will be ponying her off my pony on the trails until she can be started.

[Mersidoats]

You might find this horse as an older unstarted mare or gelding. I found my mare as an unstarted 13 y/o. She was registered and was graded highly as a baby, but sat until I bought her. I occasionally see horses like her for sale. They run around $10-$15k. If you have a trainer you trust who is experienced with starting horses, this type could be an option. But starting an older horse takes a little longer and more creativity than starting a baby. It’s a bit like going back to school at 35, rather than at 18.

[Incantation]

I do want to show and get my bronze at minimum. As for 10 years from now, I would love to still be training and get to changes, school PPP, half pass etc, but don’t necessarily need to compete, or at least don’t need high scores, I just need sound. Also, I will be doing trail ride/hunter paces etc, so wont be grilling dressage. It will take me long to get there, but it is the journey I enjoy.

[Edre]

Scoring over 60% through third level for a bronze is less of a horse capability limitation and more a rider/training/coaching issue for most people, as far as I have seen, so I think that’s probably a positive RE: your wishlist, since a lot of horses can do it, if they have the right riding/training.

Ultimately I think if you want to “ride now” (or in the near future) a thoroughbred would probably still be your likeliest option to fit what you’re looking for. There are so many lovely ones, even not specifically sport bred. My coach picked up a war horse off the track last year and they are already schooling 4th, and he was not purchased for competition, just a fun project horse for her. Her trainer (a GP rider himself) expects that they should at least be able to school the grand prix movements once he develops more strength and dexterity.

IIRC, all the major WB registries I am familiar with (OLD, Hann, West., Trak - not sure about KWPN or Holst, since I have never really followed them) allow TB mares to be inspected and approved for breeding, so any foal from an approved TB mare can be registered with the registry in question.

It’s probably pretty unlikely you’ll find a purpose bred WB within this budget that’s already been started unless you already have connections to breeders and their programs, which is where word of mouth or “it’s about who you know” really comes into play. Sometimes you can find “fire sales” in fall (weaned foals a breeder no longer has a buddy for; or wants off their feed bill before winter)? Occasionally you can find this with 1yo or 2yos, but again, most programs seem designed to either sell as foals and send home once weaned, or keep until they’ve been started.

Long-term, I’d recommend building relationships with some programs who produce what you like and see if that creates some opportunity for you? There are some big dressage (and warmblood) breeding groups on FB which is where I would probably start if I were in your position?

[NJRider]

You might look up Raymond Helmuth on facebook. He sells a lot of Friesian and Morgan crosses and most of them are very low five figures, well started under saddle. Although it seems like he mostly sells geldings.

[Mander]

FWIW, someone at my barn recently purchased exactly what you’re looking for (sensible, young, lightly started WB mare with potential for upper levels and the patience for an ammy rider). Not sure of the final price tag, but I think it was mid fives. And that was with the help of a very well connected trainer and some extenuating circumstances resulting in the owner cutting a serious deal to get the horse sold yesterday.

All that to say, sort out your must haves from your nice to haves and network network network!!! 99% of the good deals I hear about (including the above) are horses who aren’t officially for sale, but somebody knew somebody who had mentioned something, and so on and so forth.

[PonyApocalypse19]

Recently had a friend find a started 3 yr old mare that was in your price range from Canada. She has some QH in her but is papered with a warmblood registry. I believe she’ll get to 3rd, she’s got a good enough canter for it. Will she get above that, hard to say. Could she play around with the UL things, sure - she seems to be very keen and level headed - perfect ammy horse. So yes they’re out there.
We do have a morgan cross here as well that topped out at I-1 after being an eventing horse, the flying changes were his struggle point though. But they do play around with some passage and piaffe - he certainly has the trot for it!
If it was me, I’d stay away from Friesian crosses if I was looking at yearlings. I’ve seen more with problems due to poor conformation than good ones. There are a few diamonds in the rough out there- Adiah HP comes to mind. But I think you’ll have better long term success looking for something outside of a Friesian cross. JMHO.
Also I know a breeder that is advertising yearlings for another breeder on her FB page, so it is worth contacting some breeders as they may know someone with something that fits your bill. There are some fire sales/too many mouths to feed/now back on the market yearlings out there that may not be advertised on big sites but are being offered through word of mouth or presented to previous clients. You can start by asking around and finding out where people have gotten their young stock from so that way you’ve at least got a name to approach a breeder with.

[Incantation]

I am seeing some really funky conformation on some friesians and friesian crosses.

[Laurierace]

I could not sell my foals in utero for that price.

[GraceLikeRain]

I’ve been thinking about this thread and I think you should take a hard look at a saddlebred if you can click with sensitive. They are super honest and tolerant but sensitive and can’t handle a heavy hand. There is a massive
Movement in the breed right now to try and get 2 and 3 year olds into sport homes. Saddleseat has dried up in a lot of areas and the specifications for what makes a winning horse are narrow enough that good breeders often end up with lovely horses they know won’t cut it. Most go through the handful of big auctions and end up behind a cart working. If it’s super well bred you’ll still pay upper fours but breeders will work with you. I looked at a number of nice ones in 2019 that I heavily considered.

The challenge is that (1) it’s a know someone to play market and (2) the trot is king so getting good video of a horse cantering can be like pulling teeth. If you are genuinely interested and ready to start looking im happy to make connections. There’s a chestnut mare I know of right now that would be an easy third level plus prospect. Beyond third I think it becomes too much of a mind+body game for most people to say absolutely yes or no.

[Incantation]

When I was young I had the opportunity to sit on Commander’s Grin, the youngest son (or was it grandson) of Wing Commander. I was in love with that horse!
I am open to a saddlebred as long as it can do the job, and has a nice top line. I can’t stand looking at the saddlebreds with lordosis.
I am interested. Please hook me up.

[paintedpennypony]

Would you be comfortable sharing breeders that have more sporthorse-esque Saddlebreds? I’m curious about this myself. Love sensitive, love honest

[Incantation]

So I have found the perfect for me filly last night. Waiting to hear if she is still available. She is a weanling. What do you all do for a PPE on babies, or do you do them at all? I was thinking of just having the vet that does the health certificate do a basic physical on her - eyes, heart etc.
eta she is about 5 1/2 hrs from me. If she is available , I am hoping to go pick her up myself.

[CanteringCarrot]

When I bought my yearling we did a basic physical and a fair amount of x-rays. I know some think that’s a waste at that age, but I wanted to see that everything was set up/developing normally from the inside.

We did hooves, legs/joints, back, and neck. Even if it wasn’t necessary, I had the funds so we just did it.