Horse susceptible to cellulitis - tips?

[Simkie]

@endlessclimb

Can I use my BoT hock wrap as the outer layer for a sweat, or would that make too much heat?

I don’t wrap the hock. I sweat the lower leg. I cold hose from the groin down. Does the BoT wrap even fit around the hock if it’s filled?

Where is she building fluid? Only in the hock? Or from the hock down? The filling in and above the joint will resolve on it’s own as you address the lower leg and work through the abx and nsaids (and for you, steroids.)

Don’t worry about the hock, but def get (and keep) the lower leg wrapped. That’s really where you risk permanent injury to the lymphatic system that can lead to a chronically fat leg. No fun.

[endlessclimb]

The hock is almost exclusively where the fluid is retaining at this point. From the start, I could push and poke anywhere else and she wasn’t sensitive, but the hock was HOT HOT and she was extremely sensitive to the touch there. The small piece of shavings that abraded did so right around her lower hock joints.

Her track cellulitis was in her hock, also.

EDIT: I’m only icing her hock at this point. I have an old IceHorse hock boot that I’m filling with snow and leaving it tight for 20 mins on, 30 mins off.

[bluesegolene]

I just had a conversation about the BoT wraps. My mare went through a bout of cellulitis and I am still dealing with some swelling. I am wrapping her daily and alternate between 'regular" and BoT wraps. My friend pointed it out that BoT wraps reflect heat and may not be the best thing for cellulitis. So now, I am not sure! Does anyone have any input on that?

Also, my mare is older and the first thing that my vet said is to test her for cushings. I just have to wait for the right time !

[Simkie]

That’s certainly unlike any cellulitis I’ve dealt with. Good luck! Sounds like it’s proceeding nicely.

Have you imaged that hock since purchase? I’d just find it very weird that gravity isn’t causing the lower leg to fill if that’s really a cellulitis…

[endlessclimb]

I imaged it at purchase and it was clear. The other hock had some strange changes that were attributed to the cellulitis she had at the track, but are not anticipated to impact her performance life. It also has some residual filling.

I don’t know what’s normal or not, haha. I just know where the swelling is at, and that she seems to be feeling much better. Still a little not herself, still not her normal “faces” but much improved from Thursday night.

I’m going to get some E on order - the copper and zinc are already on the way. Do you have a brand recommendation? I used Elevate last time I needed E, I think.

[Simkie]

I do Santa Cruz for E and Horse Tech for copper and zinc.

No need to spend $$$$ on the Elevate powder unless you really like burning dollars Santa Cruz is the same stuff. Probably don’t need the WS for this.

[endlessclimb]

Awesome, it’s on order. Thanks!

What’s “WS”? I feel dense, sorry…

[Posting_Trot]

I used to use BoT wraps on my mare’s cellulitis. I never left them on for more than a couple of hours at a stretch, but I did think they were useful.

[Simkie]

@endlessclimb

What’s “WS”? I feel dense, sorry…

Elevate WS. The liquid, water soluble version that’s used when horses are very, very low or need rapid improvement in vitamin e level.

Spendy but useful in certain circumstances. Probably not something you need here, the powder or pellets will do what you want, and you can save $$$ by doing that with Santa Cruz instead of Elevate.

[starhorse]

Great point I use the BoT on her between flares, as “maintenance”, only for the compression function, but not when she has an active case. I think using them when she’s in helps keep her susceptible leg from stocking up over night. Or, again, maybe just makes me feel like I am doing something to prevent it!

[endlessclimb]

Last night looked pretty good. Lower leg felt totally “dry” and cold (can I use “dry” in that sense, like you would for a horse with a defined face?), hock the swelling I’d say is 90% down with some residual filling in front of the big tendon that connects to the point of the hock. I iced it one more time just for kicks, and will give a short sweat a whirl tonight.

If I only sweat for 5-6 hours, is that even worth it? I’m too chicken to try any longer, at least to start…

[endlessclimb]

Update for this thread:

I upped her Vit E from 1,000 IU to 5,000 IU. I also added copper 155mg and zinc 660mg.

Knock on wood, no cellulitis since. Her coat looks much better, as well.

[endlessclimb]

Update again:

Extreme heat = sweat.

Sweat + Shoofly boots = micro abrasions.

Guess what that equals?

Yep. Cellulitis. Mild, both hinds. I caught it quick and treated topically and it was getting better but blew up last night. Here we go, dex and SMZs.

[theresak]

Sorry about the reoccurrence.

Do you have her on a probiotic? My vet theorized that we killed all the good bacteria in the system and on the skin with all the antibiotics administered to treat multiple cases of cellulitis in one year. In addition to adding copper, zinc, and Vitamin E, I started HorseTech GutWerks. If you do have her on a probiotic, consider switching to something else that may help promote a different type of good bacteria.

Also just want to check that you aren’t clipping the legs? I stopped clipping legs, even around flare ups of scratches, since clipping can create micro-abrasions.

[cnd8]

Just replying to this because I just experienced cellulitis for the first time this last week. Swelling is in my horse’s hock primarily as well. Heat is in the hock. Radiographs are clean. Lower leg filled up secondary. Sweat wraps on hock and cannon (stacked wrap) with Butacort sweat solution at night, and wash off and iced the legs each morning. Started previcox, Exede, and SMZ on Day 1. By Day 3 you really couldn’t tell any swelling remained. Day 6 we no longer had to wrap or ice. So thankful we caught it quickly. Your post caught my attention though bc I kept reading how it was usually lower leg and not centering around the hock. It made me worry about injury. Nope, was sound by day 2 once swelling was down most of the way, and it seems it was just cellulitis. No punctures or scratches were found, but…who knows.

[theresak]

@cnd8

Your post caught my attention though bc I kept reading how it was usually lower leg and not centering around the hock. It made me worry about injury.

My horse’s first case of cellulitis was in the forearm of the right front. Very localized swelling at first and extreme lameness. We actually thought he had a fracture because the swelling was strange compared to my vet’s experience with cellulitis. We figured out we caught it early and my horse had dramatic reaction to the pain. Now, if he presents with strange swelling and/or lameness, I always take a temperature. If there’s a fever, it’s cellulitis.

My horse does get a generic inflammatory reaction sometimes (post joint injections once, that was fun). Extreme swelling like cellulitis but no fever and the leg itself doesn’t usually palpate painful. We end up treating the same with antibiotics, banamine, and leg sweats anyway just to be sure, but fever, lameness, and extreme sensitivity of the leg are the key symptoms for my horse for cellulitis.

[endlessclimb]

She has been on gutwerks in the past, with no real difference. It’s been the E/Cu/Zn that has extended the time between bouts.

I do not clip legs. Sometimes I’ll trim off the extra super fuzzies, but never to the skin. I think it’s unfair with all the flies, but to each their own.

For this one, I’m sure the 90+F heat combined with the 80%+ humidity for two weeks caused extra sweaty skin, which then was more prone to rubs with her shoofly boots. Last year, she couldn’t wear the shoofly boots on her hinds at all without a blow up, this year this was our first problem. Definite improvement!

She seems back to normal now, tonight will be her last antibiotic dose, and tomorrow her last Dex. Legs look tight and clean.

She was never lame through any of this, FWIW. I was still riding her. To get the swelling down in a hurry, I was putting polos on a little tighter than I normally would, then riding. Immediately post ride remove the polos - the swelling was always WAY down after a ride with compression - and do a short cold hose on both legs.

[sportyspicepony]

@theresak

Also just want to check that you aren’t clipping the legs? I stopped clipping legs, even around flare ups of scratches, since clipping can create micro-abrasions.

This is interesting! I feel like I’ve always heard of people keeping like at least the fetlock area clipped to keep it as clean as possible. Did you notice a significant change of clipping legs vs. not or is it just more of a precaution?

[SMK]

I’ve got some thoughts as a human sufferer of cellulitis. There is a whole lot less hand waving and pseudoscience in human medicine than in equine medicine, so maybe reporting what the science says might help some. Oh, and I’m a microbiologist so I know a thing or two about infections.

I get cellulitis secondary to lymphedema. It’s the biggest concern for folks with this disease. It is very serious, and often caused by exactly what is being described here. Small abrasions, sometimes not even visible, greatly exasperated by heat and humidity. We tend to hit it with large doses of antibiotics as early as possible.

Compression is key to recovery from lymph buildup. But it shouldn’t be done over active wounds. But after that, light exercise with compression, which extends fully distally, is the way to go. Sweating and diuretics do not improve the buildup of proteinaceous fluid.

For humans, prevention is absolutely key. Every flareup you end up with more “scar tissue”, and it makes the appendage more prone to cellulitis in the future. This is what we’re instructed to do: 1. Avoid even small cuts at all costs, so no walking without shoes. For horses, physical protection sounds good, but the humid microenvironment it can create is quite bad. Bacteria love humidity and feed off of sweat. 2. Wash frequently with regular soap (not antibacterial; I can give a myriad of reasons for that). 3. If the skin is at all prone to cracking, keep it moisturized.

I wish there was a supplement out there that would help, but there absolutely is not. I know horse people often hate to hear that, but quite a bit of research has been done on this in humans, and absolutely nothing has been found to help that isn’t dangerous to the host.

From person experience, I have found that cool, wet compression helps. As in, I’ve accidentally gotten my compression stuff wet and kept going, and it’s amazing uncomfortable, but I’m always shocked that my leg will look a bit more “leg shaped” after. But heat and real cold are both supposed to be avoided.

Sorry for the weird perspective, but cellulitis sticks. No two ways about it. I feel for any horse or human dealing with a bout. But maybe some of my person experience with could help?

[XXS]

I had this with one horse - at 2 barns we struggled with this issue. At the barn now: no problems at all, even though she has cuts now and then, but no swelling or whatsoever at all. My only explaination is, she is happy now.