Neck and back xrays. This sounds like discomfort from compression.
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Pains me to recommend because I know the cost, but would you consider MRI since bone scan showed nada? I think that might be more telling. Iâd be focused on neck and back based on what youâre saying.
Is she insured? That might help the cost of deeper diagnostics.
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Is she100% sound or you just have not been able to isolate the problem? Also. How long has this been going on? How old is she? Has she had any earlier symptoms while you have owned her? How about before you owned her ? What level has she been working at and how often?
Because we always handle them from the left and tend to start ring work to the left most horses are better balanced and stronger going and bent left. More attention to working both sides equally and not always in the same order can helpâŠsome even alternate mounting from the right side. But most mature horses are very left centric. That is just a good to know point in general, any horse.
This horse, in addition to what has been suggested so far, OP notes problem is most evident cantering right when being asked to âuse herselfâ and lunging right. So letâs look at what the mechanics are. And what is she, WB or TB?
To pick up a collected right lead canter, the body rocks back and the left hind leg alone lifts and powers the body forward, followed by the right hind and left fore diagonal pair together then rolling forward off the right fore. The left hind does most of the heavy work
This one always spins left? That is her strong side first off but that left spin pushes off the right hind and the right hind does most of the heavy work with the left more of an anchor.
SooooâŠbased on my personal experience and observation, you might want to really look at the left hind all the way from hoof up through the hip and pelvis. I know you ultra sounded but small improperly or incompletely healed suspensory injuries, often present for years, do not always show up on general scans. And they do not limp to the naked eye.
We are finding an increasing number of small healed fractures in the pelvic and hip area that are difficult to find, especially when trying to look at the whole horse. These can affect the way the joint functions and create all sorts of compensatory movement in that limb and/or others. But they do not limp to the naked eye. Same thing with shoulder issues but this does not sound Ike shoulders based on my personal experience.
Would explore those thoughts as well as the whole compensatory picture to protect a pain point. Between plane rides, trailers and starting gates, there is lots of opportunity for damage that can defy diagnosis in a stoic individual.
The âgood cowboyâidea? With this type behavior related to specific adtions? âGood cowboyâ wonât take it on. It is not a spoiled brat that needs boot camp. But she sure could use a second opinion and a specialist at a clinic-they can sometimes put one on a treadmill and do a gait analysis for slight, almost invisible gait abnormalities that can point to a root cause.
Again, these ideas are in addition to everything else already mentioned. Be aware that the treatment for whatever might turn up likely will involve extended time off so you could save the money for more advanced dx and specialists and just turn her out for a year and lease yourself a ride.
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Question: Did this behavior start all of a sudden? Or has it been going on since Day 1? (Example: Horse in the barn began doing similar behavior. Turned out there was a non-displaced rib fracture right where the saddle would sit. Going one direction, horse was relatively fine; going other direction, bronc wanna-be as that was the only time the saddle and muscle movement would put pressure on the break.)
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You say she does this while lunging. Does she do this lunging with tack, without tack or both?
Saddle fit has been checked, but the fact that she is shaking or flinching while the saddle is placed indicates to me 1) the saddle does not fit as well as what it is believed to. 2) Her back is not comfortable.
What has been x-rayed? Was there anything of note on x-rays? If not nerve pain, I would want to know how the entire back and entire neck look. If x-rays were done of those and inconclusive, MRI may be in order.
How old is this horse? How long has she been pulling this move? Was she ever ridden without this move being the issue or has she always done it?
Regardless, I would not keep riding this horse until something conclusive is found. It is not beneficial to her or to any of the riders that may fall off of her.
Two former horses had some unusual issues. One was on again off again lame and afters months of diagnostics had degenerative arthritis in his neck and shoulder. The other would lunge fine without tack, but with tack without a rider did not want to move forward. With a rider he would drop his shoulder and pitch the rider. Saddle turned out to not be fitting well and he was much better after a new saddle was added to the equation.
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Sheâs hurt several people doing this. Why are you not putting her down? Sheâs not safe.
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MaybeâŠand riders are not âfalling offâ they are getting deliberately bucked off, she is not safe to ride right now. For anybody.
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I would want to know whatâs wrong, personally. That said, I would not blame OP for making that call.
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Just one anecdata.
One of mine was bucking on landing from a jump. Any jump. Even a very small jump. My vet could not find any reason, but we did not do a lot of extensive test.
The chiro/bodyworker looked at her and said the sacro-illiac joint was twisted, and that made weight-bearing painful in her back. And of course landing from a jump is when the weight bearing is the greatest.
Several months of chiro/body work fixed it permanently. Of course, this is not precisely what is happening with your horse, but it might be worth considering something similar.
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Imagine putting a horse down because sheâs trying to tell you sheâs hurting⊠Iâd much rather retire her.
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can you have some Infrared photos taken of the horse?
Infrared thermography can detect heat variation indicating areas of inflammation, injury, or abnormal blood flow, which can be indicative of pain. These heat patterns are visually displayed in color images, where brighter colors (red, orange, yellow) represent hotter areas, and darker colors (blue, black, purple) represent cooler areas
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TBF if the horse is hurting enough and you canât find the issue, its ok to euthanize and take away the horses pain.
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Since everything else has been tried, Iâd test for Lyme, anaplasmosis and epm. The twitching when the saddle pad is put on might be clue. You can get all sorts of weird symptoms that are not obviously neurological but actually are. Mine had weird hypersensitivity to touch especially on the left side. Sheâd try to bite you for just brushing her back and saddling her. Strangely mine was still quite rideable. She did have a sticky stifle that miraculously got better after her Lyme treatment.
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Fortunately, sheâs sound and comfortable to be out in the pasture. She runs and plays happily. I wouldnât consider putting her down unless she was too uncomfortable to be a pasture pet.
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She has a very slight sticky stifle that my vet has pointed out. Iâll bring this up to him!
It sounds like body work might be the next step for her. Sheâs been getting chiro and PEMF but I think she needs more help muscularly.
Sheâs been xrayed head to toe. She occasionally bucks to the right on the lunge with and without tack. Iâve tried several saddles, jumping and dressage, and had them fitted to her.
Sheâs a 10yo warmblood. History of doing the 1.40s but is packing me around the 1.15s. Iâve owned her for years but this just began around a year ago. Started with her refusing jumps, immediately took her to the vet and had back X-rays. Ended up injecting si and back to see if that would help. Sheâs progressively gotten worse to randomly tossing me on the flat. Sheâll be great for 8-10 rides then toss me. I feel like sheâs very aggravated when I have dressage lessons and I move her to sit on her back left while cantering to the right. I may have the back left blocked like someone suggested and do a bute trial.
Sheâs on previcox daily and pentosan injections monthly. She has minimal arthritis in her front pasterns. All testing has been inconclusive. She has one spot that could be considered kissing spine under the saddle area but did not show up inflamed on the bone scan. Anyone have history dealing with this? Should I treat it regardless?
Sheâs off work and out to pasture until her pain is resolved. Iâm happy to give her as much time as she needs. Her comfort is my priority.
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I would start with a neuro workup and consider the neck, as it sounds more like neck or first rib malformation type behavior to me. You might need a CT.
That said, I also had one with bad SI degeneration that didnât show up on any test or imaging we could do while he was alive. Although injections did help. The damage was extensive and chronic on necropsy.
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It could be something âfront leftâ - my horse was just adjusted this morning and my chiro generally has to adjust front right because her hind left- her left SI joint - tends to get out of whack and that causes front right issues from compensating.
I would suggest maybe re-looking at back issues, as well as lyme/EPM/other issues and then also look at front left for issues that may cause hind end issues.
(Disclaimer - I am really bad with left and right so may have screwed up but basically it is front end opposite hind end issue).
My horse is much more sensitive about brushing and tacking when her back is out of whack. Since we have her on a good program now, no more biting when brushing or acting girthy. I also suspect her issues started with right hind being more weak (just a bit - like hard to get her to pick up lead when she was a baby - on lunge and under tack). Then she got EPM and that hind end just atrophied - I wish I had taken a picture because one side of her butt was plump and pretty and the other sunken.
Fast forward like a decade and I think someone happened in the field and that SI got out of whack but then it took us a few more years to figure out exactly what was wrong because she was like offâŠbut I could tell something wasnât right but no one else could see itâŠthen we got eliminated at a show because she didnât want to jump and Iâm like this isnât her! My trainer asked if I hit her to get her over the fence and I said no - she is obviously not happy.
Anyway, a combination of general weakness, disease, then something else can all conspire to create an issue that is several years from the initial cause. So keep an open mind.
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My first thoughts when reading your post was either kissing spine, or Lyme/EPM. Just because it didnât show up as inflamed on a scan doesnât mean itâs not absolutely killing her under saddle. (I mean, the scan wasnât done in full tack, was it?)
I havenât had a horse with KS before, but many here have, and there are several threads about it in the Horse Care section. You might want to read those.
Has your mare been tested for EPM or Lyme? Iâd look more closely at Lyme, but donât discount anything.
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