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Horse tossing head up and down...allergies?

Horse Care
#21

How did you get it diagnosed? I have two mares by the same breeding as your guy, I believe. One does a head flipping thing when she’s upset, excited, annoyed, or whatever. The other doesn’t shake her head, but I can sure tell allergy season. We do a lot of sneezing when we warm up.

Just a suggestion if the flies are so annoying. Try neem oil in your fly spray. I put about a tsp. in my sprayer with fly spray and have seen a huge reduction in flies and absolutely no ticks with nothing else. The ticks are very bad this year, and they were covered before.

My one mare is doing less of the head flipping, but I think it’s more behavioral than anything else. AS she gets older, she feels more on control, so doesn’t do the flipping as a way to express herself.

#22

Well, Respire (HorseTech’s spirulina supplement) and the nose net aren’t helping at all. Nose net seems to make him breathe heavier, which upsets him about as much as stuff hitting him in the nose. Nose net plus the Cashel riding fly mask allow us to go on walking hacks, but anything above a walk, and he’s miserable. Some days, it’s even bad indoors if the big garage doors are open in the arena. I’m considering trying an ergonomic bridle to see if that cuts down on his need for so much nose rubbing at least. Ugh.

#23

IPEsq, a lot of horses get relief from a week’s worth of antihistamine such as cyproheptadine. And some only need it for a week and then not need it after that.

#24

@Jealoushe , I have been SOOOOO busy at work and it has been raining so regularly here, that I wimped out and just kept the panty hose on. Today (after work), i took my horse out and because he hasn’t been regularly moving his head like he had been when the pollen was in full swing, I took the panty hose off and tried to ride without anything. All was well for about 15 minutes, and the he started to show mild symptoms. I got off and put the official nose net on and fit it to his nose length. He has a pretty refined muzzle for a Westfalen and the net was larger than I thought. It didn’t sit as snug on his nostrils as I thought but curved around his upper lip so much he tried to play with it. That said, when I got on and trotted, he stretched into the reins so nicely, and nary a blip with his head position. It worked!!! I think the constant contact with his nose whiskers helped a great deal.

@IPEsq , I purchased the $65 nose net because it is fitted around the nose and you can adjust the length to make it tight or loose. It is VERY light and porous. Do you have this one or the $9 Cashel one? See below…

@GramV , how interesting! My guy is a full brother to DSF Farscape and came from Dreamscape. What is the breeding of yours? We fulfilled on of the “classic” onset issues by being in regular work and then suddenly doing nothing (we had an accident). Our “diagnosis” consisted of my vet considering the situation (lack of work, he’s the perfect age and a gelding), then watched him free-longe at all gaits as exercise can trigger it. The quick motion of his head was a giveaway that he was responding to a nerve firing issue. Also, I usually groom him and tack up outside, inside the arena. He had a couple of times where he swung his head and accidentally bounced off of the fence - I know that was a reaction to some feeling. I also noticed he’d touch his nostrils to things like the fence and my saddle, telling me that he found relief by touching that area of the nose to something. Anyway, my vet said it was all classic head shaking syndrome and has a number of clients that also have it. She said the manifestation can be very different in different horses and I’d really have to do my homework to figure out what worked and didn’t with my horse. That the panty hose and now the nose net works suggest that’s exactly what it is, but she notes that nose nets don’t work for some of her clients. Some need the UV riding eye mask, a couple can only be ridden in an indoor arena (no sunlight), some get better (most don’t). My trainer had an FEI horse that had symptoms and she put vaseline on the nose, which really changed the sensation and worked but made a mess of everything (!).

The flies have recently boomed here with the rain and hot weather and are incredibly annoying while riding. Regular flies, deer flies, multiple species of horse flies… Ugghh.

Thanks for the link to that page, @Martina !

PS, FWIW, today I cut grass with scissors (my horse did not help (bucket of grass cuttings but it’s not for him?) but he reminded me of the length he takes grass at and the types he likes) for a pasture nutrient analysis. I did his grain intake. Together this should give me a good nutrition analysis and I may consult an equine nutritionist that a friend used. We’ll see if any nutrient deficiencies that can cause neuronal issues pops up, and what happens when I address them.

#25

@J-Lu I have the $$ one too. :frowning:

Because he huffs and puffs in that one, I don’t know what else to try. It might be worth it if it helped with the head flipping, but for him it doesn’t much. Probably does keep some bugs off, but that’s about it.

#26

Oh, GramV, my guy has always seemed to sneeze/ cough/blowblow out when he warms up. No trainer has ever commented, He was an extremely hot and tense youngster and still can be reactive (he’s 9 now), I think the breathing out loudly/coughing is his sign of relaxation and getting into the mental frame to do work. I can actually get him to blow out if I inhale deeply and breathe out loudly when on his back. This all said, he is very, very, very smart.

#27

Maybe he is one of those horses whose trigeminal misfirings are around the eye branch? The same company makes a riding eye net that fits to the bridle. I don’t know what the UV protection is, but they may be able to tell you.
https://www.equilibriumproducts.com/product/net-relief-riding-mask/

i think Cashel has an eye net specific for riding, too. Both may be much cheaper than the Guardian Horse Mask and may point you in that direction if you see any improvement. It’s my understanding that many horses with photic issues give many clues when turned out, trying to bury their heads in another horse’s butt, or into shade areas, etc. Does your horse give you any clue as to what his trigger might be?

#28

He seems fine in turnout. If he gets running around, he will do the occasional flipping, but otherwise he is quiet. He wears a standard fly mask with ears but no nose cover in turnout. I’ve ridden in the Cashel mask, and it doesn’t change the head flipping. It helps with ear irritation from bugs mostly. He does periodic violent flips, strikes at his nose occasionally while moving, sneezes more and has to stop and rub more often. It’s always been seasonal, but in the off season, wind is also a trigger. Bugs, pollen (including fall pollen), and dust seem to be the worst. So I thought it was tactile around the muzzle, but perhaps it’s several things. He will flip as he goes by a sun spot in the indoor as well, so I thought about light, but bugs congregate there too. At its worst, his breathing is also shallower. He rarely huffs and puffs but will when it’s bad (or he has the net on). A few weeks ago was the first I saw that. The head flipping / striking / rubbing has happened every spring the past 3 we have been together.

#29

Oh I’ll add a few weeks back when the pollen was really bad, I went on a walking hack with a friend who was on foot. He kept trying to hide his nose in her back, which was a little scary since he’d sometimes flip or strike anyway. The net plus mask helped the next time we went out, but doesn’t do much above walking.

#30

Mine are by Freestyle. Yeah, it sounds different than what I see via head shaking. Mine more just flips her head straight up, sort of like you see Arabs do. I think my older one (10) has allergies because it’s very seasonal with her sneezing. She sneezes when I do.

Another thought since you mentioned tense and reactive is magnesium. My younger one (8) is super, super talented, but has been tough. I don’t believe much in supplements to fix things, but it does help. One of the things that got me thinking about it is that she was always super reactive to running a finger down a certain part of her haunch and tight muscled. It hasn’t changed her, but it helps.

#31

I was not able to find a prepared senior feed that was totally soy free, but I ultimately went with Triple Crown Senior because it had less soy than most, and because it does not change/adjust its formula to keep the price consistent. So does not add more soy when other protein sources increase in cost. The change in feed and the addition of Spriulina made a very significant improvement in the first 30 day. Spirulina is an algae, and I do not understand exactly how it works. You can look it up on line. There are several sources available now. when I started using it, I could only find it at Horse Tech, in a powdered form.

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#32

Our vet mentioned head shaking. He appeared to have some lameness in his left front and on top of that the head shaking. We’re just starting out, so keeping a fly mask on him during the day at all times. He seems to want to hide, either in one of the two barn overhangs where it’s dark, in a small run-in, or in a stall. He does snort a lot with the pollen. Gave our vet a call, so just waiting for a call back. Does the UV light blocking keep their eyes in more darkness? Thanks @Martina for the info. I’m following them on Facebook. Wishing everyone the best.

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#33

I’ve talked to a couple people recently who said their horses were treated for allergies and it stopped in a matter of days. My vet prescribed cyproheptadine, on top of the 15,000mg magnesium and 1000mg vitamin B. After a few days we are starting to see the other side. For the magnesium/vitamin B, I’m using SmartCalm Ultra and one scoop of Quiessence.

#34

As a 4 and 5 year old, I tried Magnesium supplements (MagRestore), and I couldn’t see a difference. He was also skinny and ate a ton. I had a well-known (locally) chiropractor out and she said “I have good news and bad news. The good news is that I find very few issues with your horse. The bad news is that I find very few issues with your horse”. My vet is also now formally trained in chiro and only found tightness in his haunches when his hind shoes were pulled after our accident. He’s back in shoes and that sensitivity is gone. My farrier, Scott Strong, is great. My horse’s metabolism has dramatically changed in the last 3 years, as has his attitude with age and extensive groundwork to train him how to think through problems. While he can still be easily upset at some things, he’s a hundred times calmer and more relaxed, even lazy at times under saddle. I attribute this to his increased confidence simply going through life (I worked hard on this).

#35

Just ordered my Guardian Fly Mask. The vet suggested trying him on Zytec also to see if pollen can be aggravating the problem. Really excited to start trying to resolve this issue.

Update: Got my Guardian Fly Mask today. Went on easily enough and then horse wouldn’t come out of his stall. He came out part way and then backed in.

Does it block part of their vision? It looks that way to me when I put it up to my face. Another horse went up to his stall and got him out. He seems ok. It’s still early in the day, so we’ll see what happens.

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#36

My new horse is likely part of this club… sigh. Shaking has been getting more predictable and yesterday had the full frantic striking at nose and vertical head toss (from almost bobbing me in the nose to a rapid dive to the ground). I felt lucky I didn’t come off.

Has anyone looked at the corpora nigra connection? During PPE, it was noted my guy had a large corpora nigra in right eye – nothing is done unless it starts to impact vision and create spookiness, then, if an issue, it is lasered. However I have read that head-shaking has stopped in horses that have had their lasered. My guy isn’t spooky, but he makes me wonder.

I am also curious if any of the treatments/modifications are successful for a couple years – and the success isn’t just because of seasonality change?

#37

My horse had CN cysts but I didn’t see a relation

#38

Yes, the corpora nigra can cause headshaking or spooking in some horses that get upset about how their vision changes as the CN moves. A vet who specializes in equine opthamology told me that, as I once ruled out a large corpora nigra to explain my horse’s spooky behavior. My current vet recently looked again when we addressed the head shaking, as she has seen horses that look like head shakers but had large CNs.

A nose net worked wonders for my horse whose issue is nerve endings around the nostril. I first made a “nose net” out of panty hose and metal washers to see if it helped. It did, although we really turned heads. It was cheap and a good place to start. I ride in the “official” nose net all the time now and haven’t experienced headshaking since. My horse could care less about the nose net now.

My trainer had a horse who developed HSS, and responded well to vaseline put on the nose when ridden. Of note, the vaseline got on everything over time. :lol:

There is a systemic treatment that works for some horses that don’t respond to nosenets, eyenets, or other treatments. It’s not 100% and has it’s own issues. You really, really have to figure out from observation and trial and error what triggers it and what might stop it. This can be so different for different horses.

Good luck to you! Let us know what you do and how it works for your horse!

#39

Up until last night’s reaction, I was thinking his HS might just be hating bugs. He isn’t spooky. He stands in his stall in the sun rather than seeking shade. Doesn’t rub or touch his nose to items or snort/sneeze/cough. But if ridden and a gnat is following his head, he is shaking strongly til it goes, then he stops.

But my guess now is that it is HS and probably getting worse. He has been on rehab, and fits the model of “over-fed, under-worked, and coming off layup” they say is common with HSers. I had just introduced trotting, but we finished and were walking back to stall when this episode happened.

I have ridden in fly masks, but that didn’t seem to make much of a difference. I bought the $$ nose net, but haven’t used it yet as we have been riding western, and I need to switch to an english bridle. I did try my Micklem bridle, thinking the dropped portion on his muzzle might help, but can’t say that it did.

I did try the vaseline in the nostrils, not on the muzzle, and I think that did help a bit. Is that were your trainer placed it?

I have read both resource pages and am puzzling through what works and why. It would seem to me that if it was CN caused, then the headshaking wouldn’t be “insect in the nose” variety, but more a low level shaking and spookiness, as the horse tries to shake the vision blockage away Or, maybe CN caused HS is linked to photosensitivity and that indeed could cause a big reaction. I just haven’t found any reports of what works and the type of headshaking that went on.

The $$ nose net will be the project for the next couple days.

#40

Bluedrifter, my trainer did put the vaseline on the nostrils. Apparently, the CN is aggravating to some horses and they shake their head (they don’t have HSS, just weird shadows in their vision they try to get rid of. True headshaking syndrome is misfiring of the ends of the trigeminal nerve. The nerve has a branch that goes to the eye (misfiring in this area is often…but not always associated with photosensitivity) and branches that go down the face and approach the nostrils (nose sensitivity), and the jaw.

Let me find and upload pictures of my lovely nylon contraption, and they I’ll explain why it worked. Stay tuned…

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