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Horse won’t canter anymore with a rider

Horse Care
#1

This is going to be kind of long so I apologize in advance and I appreciate anybody who takes the time to read and respond. I have owned this horse for 5yrs, he has always been cold backed but 2mins on the lunge and he’s good to go. Left lead canter has never been his strong suit but 3yrs ago I had him going great. Then I met a guy, pretty much stopped riding regularly, maybe once every few months tops. In November 2018 he started swapping off behind at the canter. He’s roughly 15 now so I figured he was due for some maintenance. I don’t jump anymore so he is used for mainly light hacking a few times a week when in regular work. Not a heavy load by any means. Saddle fitter came out and reflocked since he had been out of work so long. The had the chiropractor out who is also a vet. She adjusted him and did some acupuncture and said he could be hock sore. Didn’t really light up anywhere else. This problem got progressively worse over the next few months then in March 2019 his right rear sustained some sort of injury low like a large wind puff. Vet ultrasounded the area and said “maybe” saw a defect in the medial sesamoid ligament but couldn’t say it was new or old, so basically inconclusive. During that same exam we started to do flexions and blocks and found he was like 3/5 on upper limb flexions so we just quit and decided to revisit this another time. This is not a horse I am going to spend the money to MRI as I’m not in the position to do so. So I just gave him time off.
Mid to late 2019 I had the chiro come back out and do 5 rounds of acupuncture before I injected anything but he was still NQR. Late 2019 vet came out and did hocks, then the next month SI, then finally stifles. That did not fix the problem. He will canter in the roundpen without a rider but absolutely refuses to do it if I’m on his back. I should add since all of this vet work I have ridden sporadically at best. Once he started to act out I laid off of him big time because I don’t believe in forcing a horse who is trying to tell me something to keep working but I really am at a loss of what else to do. I will attach a short trot clip from Friday to this post but it’s hard to get anybody to video me at my current barn. I am open to any and all suggestions!
https://youtu.be/2b5TGOz-Rgg

Edited to add my regular vet wants to believe it’s his back but neither can ever illicit a pain response when working on him. Also the problem started with not picking the left lead then eventually evolved to refusing the right lead as well

#2

He looks pretty forward in that video, so it is up to you whether you think it is up to pain or something else.

Your hands are very low. Try giving with your inside rein for the transition and make sure your hands follow in canter.

You can also try having someone lunge him and ask for canter while you are on him.

If it is lack of strength, trot will help strengthen him and maybe ask for canter outside the arena and uphill where you can get off his back.

You can also try getting off his back in the arena.

#3

@SuzieQNutter thank you for your input. I know there are a lot of more experienced eyes on this board as far a lameness goes so I wanted to post here. Everybody around me says he’s sound and to me he feels great. He will trot all day and I popped him over some little very very tiny x’s today and he would canter like maybe 5 or 6 strides and throw his shoulder forward and break or buck. If I can get some experienced help I will try the round pen suggestion. I wish I had somebody else to ride him but of course when people see how he acts they want no part lol I can’t blame them. My barn owner broke 4 ribs in November so she’s not exactly game to ride another bad one. Ugh…

*and yes I have developed a few positional flaws as I haven’t had a trainer since I was a teenager. He is a very sensitive TB so I don’t typically ride in a deep seat on his back like most of the WB’s are ridden

#4

If he is in work, cantering after a jump and then breaking after 5 or 6 strides, then bucking if you try to keep him cantering, I am afraid it does sound like pain to me.

I wish you could send him to my equine chiropractor, however I am in Australia.

1 Like
#5

@SuzieQNutter maybe I should try somebody else. I will add to date neither my vet or the vet chiro has watched me ride

#6

My chiropractor does not need for me to ride. I trust him completely after seeing absolute miracles from him over decades with different horses and thankfully his son is now just as good.

He can see things wrong just walking up to a horse. Like when I looked out one night and saw Pepper rearing like the black stallion in a flash of lightning. GORGEOUS! The next flash he was on his back. Sigh!

Rob walked up to him and said this horse has gone over backwards.

Last year my boy refused to trot in the arena. He was completely sound on the lunge. He would trot and canter outside on the grass but refused in the arena.

I told hubby I was at a complete loss. We would take him to my chiro and if he could find nothing I didn’t know what to do next.

The chiro told me immediately that he had severely pulled a muscle deep in his chest. It was hurting him to lift his front legs and to walk downhill.

My horse was telling me this by not trotting in the sand with a rider on and by refusing to go anywhere near the downhill when we trail rode. This is a dressage horse who normally is happy to do what asked.

Time off helped him, but I am left with the behaviour of him saying no now. ARGH. I know when he is fine and when he has hurt himself again.

He no longer refuses like he did in the beginning but if I make him trot and he keeps going I know he is okay. If he trots 2 strides and walks and we start the process again from the start and he does it again. I go outside the arena and he trots happily I get off immediately and that time he only needed a week off. It was months the first time as I had taken him trail riding and he decided he wanted to gallop!

I know they fly over to Japan, probably not now with covid19.

#7

Have you tried letting him roll off into canter on a loose rein, because sometimes they can position themselves to canter comfortably enough u/s when they have the freedom to choose how to do it? If he can canter on the lunge then the next step would be to try lungeing with a rider (on a loose rein), and then gradually take up contact to try to see at what point he can no longer canter.

#8

It sounds like he has likely lost a lot of strength will all the spells and sporadic riding. A weak hind end can make cantering straight almost impossible.

It might be worth trying a different chiro, but then work on strengthening exercises. Lots of forward walking, work over raised poles. Try doing a tail pull before riding, that can help activate muscles in the hind end. Also, some careful backing up in hand can help strengthen the hind end. And use the cantering away from a jump as a gauge for how he feels, just not too often! Give him time to actually get fit.

4 Likes
#9

I second the loss of strength/muscling idea. Are you using the same pad and saddle? If so, the saddle may not fit your horse at the moment due to his change in muscling. And riding a horse with a saddle that doesn’t fit can cause them to move in ways that make them sore…hoof, hock, back… and the vet and chiro can only work on the symptoms, which will keep recurring until the saddle fit issue has been addressed.

1 Like
#10

Sacroiliac is my first guess. Is there more the vet would like to do to look further into the SI? You mentioned it was ruled out, but it does seem like a high probability.

How is it that you are paying for chiro and acupuncture, but won’t go ahead with an MRI? Time to re-distribute the funds in the interests of diagnostics.

As far as the video, I have no complaints with your riding position or movement. But your body weight is being carried right over the most sensitive part of the back in most horses. If a horse has a strong back, that position can be a good thing because he is able to balance you and you’re likely to have less extraneous movement as he works. But with a weak or sore back, yes the horse is likely to have a lot of soreness. I usually sit about the same position. But if my horse is having soreness (from time to time he does) then he won’t be able to carry me until it is resolved. Just an observation from my experience.

I agree overall with your approach. But I will say that your timeline of riding - sometimes on, sometimes off - would have created issues with my last horse and my current horse. They really need consistent progressive work to develop their core strength and back strength. They didn’t/don’t do well with on-and-off riding. Every time I have to ease off for a week or two due to other priorities, we have to work back up again. That might be something to think about with your horse. Would getting someone else to go in with a partial lease, or even just free rides when you aren’t able to ride as much, work for you and your horse? To keep him in the kind of work he needs to stay strong.

Also if you are working with a trainer, or with google search, find some exercises on the longe to build back strength without you on him. And with you on him at the walk and trot, as well as canter. With luck that will help.

2 Likes
#11

Have you x-rayed his back? Wouldn’t be totally unheard of for kissing spines symptoms to get worse if he lost all his back muscling, even if there is no pain on palpation.

3 Likes
#12

Will he canter in the roundpen with the saddle on and no rider?

1 Like
#13

That’s not enough video to make a call on soundness. I’ve seen that kind of behavior you describe escalate (meaning, further deteriorate when ridden including the bucking and resistance) due to neck, back, and SI. SI and neck often go together, but considering the lack of work and that you have injected the SI, back could be an issue as well. A lot of horses with back problems will appear “sound”. I put that in quotes because sometimes they aren’t actually moving normally but the lameness is not clear.

Some things you can try without getting the vet back out… rehab this horse like a back problem horse and get his fitness back up. See if that improves anything. That means incorporating some ridden (as tolerated) and unridden work, lots of walking and walking over poles. Then adding trot poles. Set the poles at different distances (bigger steps, shorter steps), and try some raised poles. You can longe over them at first. Try something like the Equicore system–introduce it slowly. Perhaps consult with your vet about trying some anti-inflammatories or Robaxin. Keep up the acupuncture. Add walking up and down hills and some rein back if he tolerates this. No cantering under saddle. Canter some if he is ok with it on the longe or long lines to the extent that he is ok with it down the road and as a way to increase work in the Equicore bands but without a rider. If he is resistant, swapping off, etc., give him more time with the other work.

This will require consistent, dedicated input from you. Keep him on a good turnout schedule as well. If the behavior at any time continues to deteriorate or if he becomes lame or if when you try for any canter after doing your walk and trot work for a while, it’s time for another vet visit by someone with spine and pelvis experience. You shouldn’t need an MRI or bone scan kind of expense to figure it out.

This may not be a horse who can be mostly retired–he is telling you that now. It doesn’t seem likely that he had some acute pasture injury from which he will just recover and go back to behaving as if he was fitter. So, whether that’s worth it might mean you figuring out whether you are going to keep him fit enough to be comfortable or whether you should just retire fully.

#14

How does he canter on the longe? With your hands that low, you are putting pressure on the bars of his mouth. Start by picking up your reins and having steady contact with your hands about six inches over his withers. It will help you sit back and down when you ask for the canter. You are tilted forward. A horse needs to reach under behind and lift his front end to start the canter, and most find it hard to do when the rider is tilted over the withers.

Pick up your hands, Sit back, sit down, give with the inside rein. He looks like he’s moving forward nicely, head up and ready. I didn’t see an obvious lameness.

1 Like
#15

@Hawks Nest my chiro showed me some hind leg stretches to do before I ride but not a tail pull would you care to elaborate on how to perform one? Also the itty bitty crossrail I jumped a few times was mostly an experiment to see if I could trick him into cantering I have no intentions on jumping at all.

@jawa Yes I am using the same saddle and pad he’s always used. Albion Kontact with Mattes half pad. Saddle was reflocked by my fitter in October when did the SI and planned on starting riding again (which didn’t happen)

@Dutchmare433 I have not xrayed his back yet but if this goes on it’s going be put on the list

@HorseGal500 He will canter without hesitation in the roundpen with a saddle on and no rider

@IPEsq It was a very short snippet of video to really get a good idea it was more to show how forward/willing/sound he “appears” to be yet gets so balky when asked to canter. He resents being asked all together. I had him on Previcox which did not help but have not tried Robaxin. He is also always on CBD for other quirks which may or may not help with his issue. I agree with you that I bought a horse who probably needed to be ridden everyday and when he’s not now these issues are cropping up. I will see if my barn manager has a bitting rig or pessoa I can lunge him in to help him get some of his back strength back.

@Ambitious Kate I ride him in a non mechanical hackamore so no bar pressure there but my hands are always low and I do always tip forward (too many years without a trainer yelling at me to sit up)

So I got another crappy video this weekend of him cantering with me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqsJyiuUs4

…again he seems pleasant ears no tail wringing or anything but he only did it once over the course of the last few days.

#16

A tail pull is fairly straightforward and exactly what it sounds like. You stand behind them, get a good grip of their tail towards the end of their tail bone and let yourself fall back against it with straight arms and feet planted fairly close to them. You are looking for their glutes to pulse and engage and ideally create a full body rock. The horse should pull back against you.

I’d recommend starting further away and giving gentle tugs both straight back and at a 45 degree angle on both sides. This can help the SI if it is out of whack and let him get used to the idea. He needs to learn to stand still and pull back against you. If he won’t stand then you definitely have an SI problem and stick with the softed tugs until he can pull back.

Don’t be afraid to put your full weight into it and really let yourself fall back against his tail. Think of him rocking back and then pulling. I looked for a video but the only one I found was not ideal (I’m going off of what my chiro/DVM taught me). I might be able to make a video tomorrow if that would help.

#17

Make sure your hands follow in canter. I did not hear one good boy. Let him know when he does what you want.

#18

Lovely horse! He looks like a good one, just from that brief clip. :slight_smile:

Just my opinion …

That brief canter clip reminds me of me & my last horse. I was working harder at the canter than he was. :smiley:

I had to be reminded by a strict instructor that the horse does the cantering, not me. I’m supposed to manage balance, pace, direction, the rider stuff. If the horse tries to switch places with me (I use my body to maintain the canter while he decides what else he would like to do or not do), it was up to me to switch back. :lol: Hope that makes sense.

To me, I see a horse that lacks fitness and energy. Otherwise I don’t see any red flags, from that short clip (I’m not an equine health professional).

I’d start building him up with the right longe exercises and under saddle exercises. A LOT of lateral trot work (working up in steps, as he’ll be using muscles that he isn’t using now and needs to build them up). Proper transitions, walk/trot and trot/canter. And canter/walk once he can do it in proper frame and carriage (going from canter to a boat with the engines cut settling into the water is not it). And plain old trot sets to help him get stronger (while carrying himself properly).

As he’s struggling with canter, I’d focus on the lower gaits & lateral work (shallow serpentines are good) until I feel his strength and self-carriage improve. He has to carry himself first, and then carry himself and you. Right now he’s not really carrying you all that well, you’re just up there and he’s not really using his back to support your balance. Probably because he doesn’t feel strong for it, or maybe he just doesn’t know.

Some good instruction would help as well. In your shoes I’d definitely get into regular lessons with an instructor who really understands the way horses carry riders, and how to develop them physically to do this.

Basics. Basics basics basics. Don’t just build a foundation (you may feel he already has one, but I’m not seeing it. it may have washed away through lack of fitness), build a rock solid base of strength and fitness for a horse that could go on to any athletic future.

Just an opinion. Of course I’m not there and can’t see everything that goes on with this horse. But just some ideas for you.

And not for nothing … if he did have all of this, and you feel you’ve done the build-up and he’s not building, I would look to overall health and nutrition. Not necessarily lameness/soreness unless there are specific signs. Maybe something that affects him neurologically … you’ve investigated a lot, but that would be my next direction if basic fitness didn’t answer a lot of questions.

#19

Please do not start with either of these. His lack of fitness means this is likely too much for now.

The timeline in your post isn’t clear that the chiro you did was consistent. Doing chiro once won’t fix things if they’re broken. Like your farrier, it’s a regular routine maintenance that will get you progress. But combined with consistent, prescriptive, and careful physical conditioning.

You mention

During that same exam we started to do flexions and blocks and found he was like 3/5 on upper limb flexions so we just quit and decided to revisit this another time.

So you stopped diagnostics, and also did no riding or other work? When was this?

Mid to late 2019 I had the chiro come back out and do 5 rounds of acupuncture before I injected anything but he was still NQR. Late 2019 vet came out and did hocks, then the next month SI, then finally stifles. …

you mean you had them injected?

That did not fix the problem. He will canter in the roundpen without a rider but absolutely refuses to do it if I’m on his back. I should add since all of this vet work I have ridden sporadically at best.

So after injections you didn’t do any consistent work
I also wonder, if he can comfortably canter in the round pen, perhaps your fitness, balance, etc (since you’re not riding consistently ) fitness is likely part of the problem.

#20

The difference with the Equicore system (even though it is a very expensive but not all that great saddle pad) is that it is not a system that is attached to their mouth. And you don’t have to longe in it. You can start with just a 5-10 min hand walk. Or tack walk. And work up to some trotting under saddle.

It’s hard to get a feel for what his balking into the canter means if you show a video where he’s not doing it.

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