Horse won't listen

[FineAlready]

[QUOTE=JCS;7505733]
I think part of what you are missing, aldena, is that many posters are worrying that riding this particular horse AT ALL, even at walk and trot, under the circumstances you describe, is unsafe. Fresh horse that is known to bolt; young, relatively inexperienced rider; large open field; spring weather. It’s a recipe for disaster.

That having been said, you can try to stop a bolt by using a pulley rein. Keep your reins short. Plant your left hand on his mane, and use the right hand to pull up and back, hard. Hopefully he’ll turn and have to slow down. This is for a full-on bolt. If he’s just trotting way too fast, it should not take several minutes to slow him down. Keep the trot under control with many small circles mixed with walk and halt transitions. Don’t let him just motor along.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. I do not think you should be riding this horse AT ALL. Even at a walk. If you have this degree of lack of control, it’s not safe to ride this particular horse, even at a walk, out in the field you are describing.

And, the pulley rein described above isn’t foolproof. It can also accidentally result in you pulling the horse right off of its feet, resulting in a crash.

Since I guess you were not understanding my other post, I will say it again. STOP. RIDING. THIS. HORSE.

[FineAlready]

[QUOTE=Justa Bob;7505750]
It’s not you. It’s the horse - an ex-racehorse who has not been trained to stop or listen to the rider. The best jockeys and exercise riders have trouble stopping and controlling a really hot, strong TB who just wants to run. Or worse, bolting. The best riders struggle to control the type of horse you are riding. This kind of horse is a big challenge. And dangerous since you never know when he will really take off. There are no brakes or easy tricks to control such a powerful, fast animal.[/QUOTE]

Well, this is also inaccurate. This isn’t even an ex-racehorse, so that’s not the problem. He’s just a Thoroughbred, which probably has exactly nothing to do with this situation. The horse isn’t ridden consistently and sounds like he’s on the hotter side. His breed has little to nothing to do with it. He is being set up to fail. So, yes, it is the OP’s problem, and her family members who are allowing her to do this.

It’s not the horse. It’s the situation. And the situation isn’t going to change, so that’s why my advice is to not ride the horse.

[Justa_Bob]

The pulley rein is very hard to do if you are light rider who does not have excellent balance since the pulley rein turns the horse. If you don’t have your balance back and over the horse, its very easy to fall off when the horse turns. That’s even if you can get the pulley rein to work on a horse that is cantering or galloping.

You want to practice a pulley rein when you taking your riding lesson at your barn. Practice in the arena with a school horse. That will give you an idea how it works.

[JCS]

Right, the situation is scary. Don’t feel bad about your inexperience, OP. I’ve been riding for much longer than you, and I would NOT get on this horse under these conditions.

[aldena2]

[QUOTE=FineAlready;7505751.
Since I guess you were not understanding my other post, I will say it again. STOP. RIDING. THIS. HORSE.[/QUOTE]

I have been riding this horse for years. They just moved to this farm a few months ago. Before we bought him, he was a fully trained dressage horse. He did have problems pulling on the bit before and I talked to his original owner last night and she said that he gets excited when he sees a big field and wants to run. I am not going to stop riding him, but I am going to keep it slow and ride in a fenced in area so that he cannot bolt. I appreciate your concern but I’m not going to stop riding a horse I’ve been riding for 5 years. I don’t want you to take that statement as me just being a stubborn teenager either because I’m not just trying to prove myself. I have been around horses my whole life, and riding them for 10 years. I know enough to know that this is not a game, and not to do something stupid like take off with him without having the experience to do so.

[aldena2]

[QUOTE=FineAlready;7505751.
Since I guess you were not understanding my other post, I will say it again. STOP. RIDING. THIS. HORSE.[/QUOTE]

I have been riding this horse for years. They just moved to this farm a few months ago. Before we bought him, he was a fully trained dressage horse. He did have problems pulling on the bit before and I talked to his original owner last night and she said that he gets excited when he sees a big field and wants to run. I am not going to stop riding him, but I am going to keep it slow and ride in a fenced in area so that he cannot bolt. I appreciate your concern but I’m not going to stop riding a horse I’ve been riding for 5 years. I don’t want you to take that statement as me just being a stubborn teenager either because I’m not just trying to prove myself. I have been around horses my whole life, and riding them for 10 years. I know enough to know that this is not a game, and not to do something stupid like take off with him without having the experience to do so.

[aldena2]

There is no point in me posting in this thread anymore, trying to explain things to people who are partially making assumptions. So thank you to everyone who gave me useful information. Again, for those of you who don’t get it, Im not planning on doing anything that will endanger me or my horse. I am going to ride in a fenced in area and work on half halts and the one rein stop with him at the walk and trot. All of his tack fits him perfectly and his teeth are regularly taken care of. That’s it. Thanks again everyone who gave me useful advice and actually answered my question. I am no longer going to read/respond to anything in this post.

[JCS]

Is he alone? You said your grandma just recently moved him to her farm. If he’s used to being at a boarding stable, with other horses around, in a program, being ridden many times per week, and suddenly he’s alone in a big field being ridden only occasionally, he’s going to seem like a different horse.

[Zuri]

I am truly sorry that you are not going to keep reading here as there are instructors, trainers, riders of all levels, and pros that may be posting giving you good advice as I think you have been given. One of the hardest lessons I had to learn as a rider was my limitations and to be open to what I needed to improve and work on.

As a parent of 2 daughters that ride, I have made mistakes by over/under horsing them or getting them inconsistent riding lessons or a combination of both. I love that you have stuck with lessons for 10 years and take the opportunity to ride at your grandmothers. Riding lesson horses in an up down program and then riding a TB in a field are 2 different things. If you can get your riding instructors to help you with your canter on the lesson horses first and then apply that knowledge to your TB horse, you may start to see some progress. Learning the proper aids is really important and once you get them down, you may have an easier time.

The title you gave this thread is that the horse won’t listen. Maybe the horse is listening really well and is confused by the aids/signals you are giving him. In your lessons, ask to work on your canter and transitions and apply those to your horse under the guidance of a knowledgeable horse person. As the rider, you have to be open, listen and take advice. One of you has to and you are the one in charge.

[BlueLodge]

I was taught to pull release, pull release in a bolt or see-saw the bit (again only in an emergency as you’ll ruin the mouth).

This is why I like curbs (pelhams and kimberwicks) and not snaffles with some horses and situations. A snaffle in the ring and a curb in open, fast country is pretty much my rule for riding a spicy horse.

When I was a teenager with no muscle, a horseman lent me a gag snaffle to keep me safe on my too-strong horse. Too severe for most, but it worked, as did a hackamore.

The stronger the equipment, the lighter your hands must be and that can be a good thing. There’s nothing like a weak bit to make a rider heavy handed. Snaffles were really intended to guide a race horse around a track, not to stop it completely, and for grooms who were not considered “good enough” to use something stronger. Also, some horses really hate the nutcracker action of a jointed snaffle and do better in a straight bar pelham.

In other words, if you’re on a big, strong, fresh horse with a snaffle, braking problems aren’t really a surprise.

[LauraKY]

A gag bit for a moderately experienced to inexperienced rider? Poor horse and maybe poor rider.

Maybe a boucher bit. Maybe.

[Angela_Freda]

[QUOTE=Stushica;7503730]
Walk to canter transitions on a lunge… no trotting need be involved. When riding give the correct canter cue and if he speeds up before breaking into a canter… slow him right back down. Allowing him to run into the canter is a big no no.

I also feel the need to add that it does make you a less experienced rider. She has already done the training involved in acquiring that skill and thus has more experience… People may be snobby or rude or however you choose to negatively view them but keep in mind that everyone here hates to hear about someone getting hurt or having an accident and try to create a knowledge pool of ways to avoid/ achieve a variety of things, on a whole it may not sound pleasant but COTHers really are looking out for you’r own good… take the good, ignore the negative and move on…[/QUOTE]

Agree with the last paragraph.

However, have to disagree with those suggesting OP lunge this horse.

If there is no enclosed space to safely ride this horse, without it bolting or ‘cantering against the riders wishes’, lunging isn’t going to be any safer for an inexperienced rider/horsewoman and potentially more dangerous.
And even given a safe, enclosed space to lunge, someone who has not learned and then demonstrated the ability to lunge a horse safely in a variety of situations, is not something I can advocate.
I’ve seen someone, an experienced person, dragged. It was NOT pretty.

Another thing I would worry about… it sounds like OP rides this horse in a field or paddock portion of a field?
What is the potential for there being woodchuck holes in this field that they may/may not be blindly cantering/bolting through?

And bitting up a horse for a beginner, who still bounces at the canter so one must question how quiet are her legs, how solid is her seat and thus how quiet are her hands?.. ?
I call that punishing the horse.
No. Just no.

[BlueLodge]

The OP says she is going to work on her one-rein stop. I just want to warn her that I ended up underneath a horse that was turning a slight bend while galloping, we hit a sudden slippery patch. Two of us went down on it, the other horse had to be euthanized with a broken shoulder.

[rabicon]

Op. My daughter is 13. We’ve had horses her whole life. She has a great pony that she rode on and off. Mainly walk/trot because she didn’t ride enough to start the canter with her. She quit for a few years and now lessons at a great barn. She is walk,trot,canter on a spunky little welsh mare that gives her a challenge to be better but not dangerous. She is showing and jumping now and IMO she is still a beginner. Even though she has ridden 10 years it doesn’t me she is more than that. First you have to understand this. To improve maybe a lesson horse that You have to work a little harder on. This mare will throw her shoulder in the corners, over bend at times, speed up and slow down etc. So my daughter has to learn to get the leg and push her, make her bend properly, rate her speed. If your riding dead head beginner horses that plod around and your want to improve more maybe it’s time to step up to the next level of horse. But IMO also the horse you are talking about maybe to many steps up for you right now.

Lunging-great tool if you know how to do it, can be a disaster if you don’t. Also can make a horse even more fit than the rider can handle and can make things worse by horse being stronger if just lunged to make the horse tired.

One rein stop-please be careful. If you do this in a full blown bolt horse can very well fall over very easily. You have to be accurate with your aids and faster than the horse to do this. You have to do it when you feel the horse about to bolt. Within the first couple strides. Most beginners including my daughter do not have this timing yet and comes with many more years of experience.

[BlueLodge]

[QUOTE=rabicon;7508999]

One rein stop-please be careful. If you do this in a full blown bolt horse can very well fall over very easily. You have to be accurate with your aids and faster than the horse to do this. You have to do it when you feel the horse about to bolt. Within the first couple strides. Most beginners including my daughter do not have this timing yet and comes with many more years of experience.[/QUOTE]

Yes.

[LauraKY]

One rein stop and a harsh bit…very bad advice for a rider who is not confident and not solid in her seat.

[HungarianHippo]

Part of the issue is defining one’s riding level based on years rather than performance-related criteria. I get that no one wants the label “Beginner”, least of all a teen who’s been riding most of her life. But time has zero value, it’s about capability. Below are my personal definitions of riding levels. This rider is a novice.

Novice rider: mostly focused on improving her riding position and aids. Able to win compliance from the horse part of the time, but not always. Not in a position to improve the horse’s way of going–will do best on a well-trained schoolmaster. Not confident about what is rider error vs. horse error, and not adept at adapting to different horses’ quirks.
Intermediate Rider: 100% safe and secure at 3 gaits, but still working to refine position and aids, and adapting them to different horses. Can broaden her skills and succeed on a trained but not-quite-polished horse. Knows rider vs. horse error.
Advanced/Expert: Position and aids are light, responsive, secure. Can focus entirely on the horse’s way of going and improve even marginally-trained horses

[BlueLodge]

[QUOTE=LauraKY;7509974]
One rein stop and a harsh bit…very bad advice for a rider who is not confident and not solid in her seat.[/QUOTE]

A mullen mouth pelham is not a harsh bit (you can even get rubber ones). A straight bar in the mouth is about as mild as you can get. It’s the curb that matters – the word curb means “to stop!”

Keeping horses in snaffles and being heavy handed and seesawing the bit, trying to do one-rein stops and falling down – that’s harsh.

I’ve seen cut mouths and rubbed to the flesh noses with snaffles and gadget nosebands. Horses stiffening against and evading heavy handed riders who are trying to get a snaffle to do too much are seen everywhere.

I have a last bit of advice for the OP (who says she isn’t reading now anyway, I think this is now a discussion among ourselves!):

Check out your medical insurance, if you end up in the ER go through the bills afterwards with a fine-toothed comb, if you’re hospitalized you will miss school (you can do it online but how would you make up other work?), if you break something, physiotherapy can be a long and annoying road (all those inconvenient trips to the PT), get full x-rays as fractures can be missed.

No offense, falls happen!

[BlueLodge]

Note:

For anyone trying a new bit or gadget or training method for the first time, exercise caution. Don’t make anything too tight and make sure the curb chain is twisted flat and on the last links to begin with. A horse shocked by a new contraption may rear up and fall over backwards (though rough riding or fear can cause that even without a gadget).

Ride and take advice at your own risk.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=KBC;7503919]
Nice post, just to pick up on that thought, I have ridden for 40 years on and off, and guess what, I am now calling myself inexperienced, the training I originally had was HORRIBLE, it instilled a lifetime of bad habits, which I didn’t know about until I got decent training later in life.[/QUOTE]

This. Even when it’s GOOD experience it doesn’t make you an expert. When I was switching dance teachers because I moved halfway across the country, my new pro pegged me as not a newb because, despite getting an intro with him via networking and listing my teachers from my old city (who are the dance equivalents of BNTs), I listed myself as a ‘beginner’ when it came to the style of dance (Latin) I wanted to do with him. He knew I wasn’t completely clueless because I was aware how much I didn’t know. It’s the same when I skate, the same when I ride–the longer I do anything the more I know I don’t know. I’ve never had a ride where a horse hasn’t done SOMETHING to make me say “Well, that was different.”

OP, you’ve gotten lots of good advice. Here’s the thing-I know where you’re coming from, that TB sounds a lot like my old horse, and if you don’t have the leg and seat to balance him in transitions, do not try to canter him. Trot work, lots of figure eights and circles and serpentines and other ways to keep his brain engaged. Work on your legs (in your ‘real’ lessons on a horse you trust, lots of no-stirrup work; I did that to myself and it’s saved my butt with my current horse) until you can use them and your seat to help steady your horse. One reason horses ‘fall’ (ie rush through a trot) into the canter is balance and to be honest it doesn’t sound like you’re at a point where you can really help him there. He may want to run, but it’s better for him and you in the long run if you work on focusing his mind and getting secure at the walk and trot.