If I were you, in addition to hauling him to the clinic for a lameness exam, I’d post a video of him undersaddle. There are several sharp eyes on this forum that might be able to help you.
IME the head and its constraints Heal the best, given the high vascular nature of the head. So I would be suspecting things other than the jaw that broke several years ago (especially if it happened as a baby) - wouldn’t rule it out, but would keep my mind open.
it is certainly possible this horse has long term neuro injury from his previous injuries
I would certainly consider a non-jointed bit. It might be more stable than a jointed one
like beowulf said, consider the rest of the bridle and fit. be careful of cavisson tightness and certainly would not use a flash or other attachment. Look at the crownpiece carefully and make sure there is plenty of clearance behind the ears
I could have written your exact post. Tongue out, horse likes to curl behind the vertical (so not thrilled about contact generally), etc. Well, almost. My horse had a poor excuse of a vet try to remove a tooth from his mouth without enough sedation, but with a numb jaw, and he broke his lower jaw by biting down on the speculum. He’d been having tongue issues since slightly before that, we discovered a broken tooth, and were having it removed. Then all HECK broke loose. 
Over a year later, we’re still dealing with the tongue issue. He sticks it out. Not over the bit, not any other time, just under saddle. He even does it bitless, so that’s not a fix. Worth noting for mine, though, is that part of the broken tooth problem was a bad dentistry problem, and because he broke his jaw, we haven’t been able to float his teeth because of the risk to his healed fracture. The surgeon advised that we wait a full year from the break before floating, so that appointment is actually next week! Fingers crossed!
BUT - we have found a riding-related trigger for the tongue. He sticks his tongue out when he’s slightly locked on that side. He sticks his tongue to the right, and that’s the side he locks on. He’ll set himself in his neck and/or jaw, and loosening him up gets him to put his tongue away. The locking could be in part related to his teeth, because essentially, we were told that collection is uncomfortable because of the position it puts his teeth in - he has a “step” in his molars, so they don’t work together properly, and it’s going to be a long process of fixing his teeth. You seem to have ruled out most teeth problems, so I’d wonder if it’s just habit for your guy.
I did also find that a new bit helps - the Herm Sprenger Novocontact single-jointed loose ring made a big difference for him. He’s much happier about contact because this bit fits better in his mouth.
I feel your pain, as it’s been a year and a half I’ve been dealing with this, thanks to a big mistake by the vet.
Feel free to PM me if you have questions, I’m not always great at seeing replies on threads!
Nestor -
Thank you so much for your post. I have a student whose new horse sometimes sticks his tongue out. It is very mild and all but non-existent at home (HS RS Dynamic Bit) but shows up during increased stress (such as his first show or when the barn was really busy one day). His tongue goes out to the left. Guess which side he doesn’t like to bend to - the left! I really hope your post will get us to keep the tongue in! Thanks!
[QUOTE=bfeintn;8326105]
Nestor -
Thank you so much for your post. I have a student whose new horse sometimes sticks his tongue out. It is very mild and all but non-existent at home (HS RS Dynamic Bit) but shows up during increased stress (such as his first show or when the barn was really busy one day). His tongue goes out to the left. Guess which side he doesn’t like to bend to - the left! I really hope your post will get us to keep the tongue in! Thanks![/QUOTE]
Fingers crossed!
Some horses just hate having a bit sit on their tongue, especially if they have a low palette. You make it worse by using fatter bits or bits with a “lozenge” in the center. I had a lovely big polish Arabian mare that would hang her exceptionally long tongue out, it looked like a snake! She was actually worse in a french snaffle because the center really sat on her tongue. She was better in a single jointed snaffle but still not happy. I kept trying bits. Mullen mouth, nope. I borrowed a Myler kimberwick with a medium port with the wider comfort snaffle center piece. The swivel joints of the Myler Comfort Snaffles make the joint smooth and small diameter. Anyway, tried this bit to see if the port in the center (which raises the center of the bit higner on the tongue) would help. PERFECTION! Tongue never came out while using thks bit.
Of course, I believe you are not allowed to use a ported snaffle, definitely can’t use a kimberwick. But it would be a good experiment to try on your horse. And I do mean a MYLER kimberwick, not the clunky typical kimberwick.
Thank you everyone for your input!
His appointment with the university was today, and I am probably the first horse person in the world to be disappointed by getting a clean bill of health! Had x-rays of his TMJ and the bars of his mouth, as well as a full dental exam - no problems.
I brought video of with me for the vet. Not going to post it on here because, well, his tongue is hanging out and it’s unpleasant looking, and not something I want people to see out of context.
Anyways, I’ve also spoken to his chiropractor. When she treated him, she said some of the acupuncture points she targeted on him were for anxiety relief. She wants to formulate a supplement for him using some natural herbs and remedies to ease his anxiety. After our ride on Monday, I strongly agree that this is part of the problem. This is when we shot video for the vet, and his tongue issues were pretty bad. But after the ride, when I was sitting on his back just talking to my trainer, I noticed after several minutes of standing there that his constant chewing on the bit/sticking out his tongue had vanished, and his mouth was being perfectly quiet. So maybe the pain he was feeling due to the ulcer and infection triggered some bad anxiety and memories of his previous injury?
Anyways, a lot of you were on the right track and have offered some great suggestions on bits. I’ll be doing a lot of research on them. It’s hard, because I have to balance out two issues with him and the bit: his tendency to curl (he does better in an eggbutt vs. loose ring) and this tongue issue. Some of the issues that would be good for his tongue problem seem like they would exacerbate the curling issues, and vice versa. But all of your advice and support has been helpful!
It’s good to feel confident going forward that he isn’t in pain, so I know that when I keep trying to ride him in different setups and techniques that I’m not being unfair to him. I will write an update when my trainers and I find what works for him.
I’m going to go on a bit of a limb here and ask if it gets better or worse depending on what position you ride him in? I have known horses that tend to curl and bear down, and then the tongue comes out because they are creating tongue pressure due to the positioning. Because it is always at the canter, he could be creating quite a bit of pressure for himself.
The 2 that I have known that have had tongue issues have been addressed by riding a bit more in the french manner - up and open, elevated in the base of the neck and making sure that there is zero breaking at the 3rd vertebra and that horse was properly on the bit because of being soft in the poll. Basically, “breaking them off the bit” and not allowing them to lean or get heavy on the bit at all. You can also try some in hand bit mobilizations a la Phillip Karl to see if you can train a better response to the bit.
In any case, the reason that I bring this is because the photo that is posted, while lovely, looks to me as though he is bearing down and dropped in the base of the neck, and breaking over at the third and he looks fairly strong in the contact. The jaw and poll soft don’t seem to be soft, which could be causing a lot of tongue pressure for him, especially in the canter.
Just a thought…
[QUOTE=Reddfox;8329711]
I’m going to go on a bit of a limb here and ask if it gets better or worse depending on what position you ride him in? I have known horses that tend to curl and bear down, and then the tongue comes out because they are creating tongue pressure due to the positioning. Because it is always at the canter, he could be creating quite a bit of pressure for himself.
The 2 that I have known that have had tongue issues have been addressed by riding a bit more in the french manner - up and open, elevated in the base of the neck and making sure that there is zero breaking at the 3rd vertebra and that horse was properly on the bit because of being soft in the poll. Basically, “breaking them off the bit” and not allowing them to lean or get heavy on the bit at all. You can also try some in hand bit mobilizations a la Phillip Karl to see if you can train a better response to the bit.
In any case, the reason that I bring this is because the photo that is posted, while lovely, looks to me as though he is bearing down and dropped in the base of the neck, and breaking over at the third and he looks fairly strong in the contact. The jaw and poll soft don’t seem to be soft, which could be causing a lot of tongue pressure for him, especially in the canter.
Just a thought…[/QUOTE]
His former owner (whom I was a working student for) is of a traditionally german school of thought, and had a horse who was best addressed in exactly the methods you describe. I have ridden that horse, and he rides a lot different from my boy. Years of bad training taught him to lean on the contact, and his tongue would come out. He could be very heavy in the hands, and if you tried to ride him with contact, things got ugly fast.
My boy, on the other hand, (other than when he was bearing down on the contact due to the teeth issues) backs off of the contact, and breaks at the third vertebrae to hide from the connection. Too often, he gets himself lost behind the contact. It has always been a work in progress.
As always, pictures are just a fraction of a second. From your perspective, I think it’s a valid critique. But I know the context in which the photo was taken - the start of a canter lengthening at a show - which does explain why, yes, he is being stronger than normal in this moment. But thank you for your input. =)
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