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Hot Take: COTH needs to stop posting Safe Sport articles on Facebook

As someone who has been in this position, the online comments are worse. You’d be surprised, but people really don’t want to say nasty things to a 16 year old kid’s face. Adults are much braver (see: nastier) from behind the cover of their computers and screen names for some reason. You would be shocked by how much time kids spend on their phones and social media today!

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When the movie Mean Girls came out, at first I was appalled at the thought that it was probably giving bad ideas to all the teenage girls who might see it. Then I realized that they were probably doing much, much, much worse in real life and it had been toned down for the movie version.

This is probably somewhat similar. Some of the Facebook comments are certainly terrible, but the other stuff that goes on is probably much worse.

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Yeah but at least in my experience, your peers aren’t the ones giving you a hard time when it comes to this type of allegation. You tell your friend “Trainer X sent me a creepy/explicit text message” and she’s like “omg no way, gross, let me see it!” You tell your trainer or some other adult in the horse community and it’s “oh I don’t know, I think you’re just interpreting it wrong. I’m sure he didn’t mean anything by it. Just ignore it!”

Editing to add that mean girls came out like 15(?) years ago. They weren’t on Facebook and Instagram and Twitter. I think that’s a major difference that some people of other generations don’t realize. Kids today aren’t telling each other they’re fat and ugly in person. They’re posting it on the internet, along with embarrassing pictures or screenshots. They’re texting each other in a group chat or Snapchat. What’s worse, is adults are doing the same thing.

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It doesn’t have to be one or the other… it can be both.

Also we now know how normal people can become almost radicalized through unmoderated social media platforms. When we argue with someone, we’re usually not convincing the other person of something we’re convincing ourselves so whatever opinion they held before then gets stronger and stronger the more you argue with someone on the internet.

In addition, other people are more likely to jump on the bandwagon when they see other people making hateful comments. The more “upvotes” or “likes” something has, the more likely other people are to agree with it which gets people even more riled up.

The toxic Facebook and social media crap (coth forums very much included IMO) then turn into real world in-gate bullying at the horse shows. Those two situations are not independent, they feed off each other.

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Good point, and I did not intend to make it sound like an either/or.

All the victim blaming/shaming/shunning is awful, and I’m sure people are meaner from behind a keyboard.

My worst experiences with this were pre-social media, so that skews my view.

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I prefer the racists, and child abuse supporters out themselves in the comments. Makes our lives so much easier figuring out who the good and bad eggs are in the equestrian world :smiling_imp:

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I can see an argument for turning off the comments on posts informing the community about a suspension or ban, because it communicates “this post is purely informational.” Which it is-the purpose of the post is to let everyone know about a fact (a sanction). Not to debate the validity of Safe Sport itself.

I think it’s very important to keep talking about the issue, but perhaps not on posts about specific suspensions or bans. I realize that we will miss some thoughtful and heartfelt supportive posts for the victims by not allowing comments, but we’ll also not have to deal with the misinformed and cringe-inducing “this is a witch hunt” and “this goes too far” posting ad nauseum.

I also agree 100% with @McGurk about the importance of vocally supporting victims and Safe Sport in real life (even in conversations at the barn), which is often harder and more valuable than doing so than just responding on Facebook. I know so many people who aren’t into horse-related social media at all, are of a slightly older generation that reveres many of the people who did terrible things, and they really don’t know the full extent of the evidence against these men.

And yes, it’s baffling to me how some people on FB don’t understand how awful this makes them look–you’d think they’d at least sit on their hands and try to stay out of it. But no…

Moderating comments is also a very sensitive task, and many smaller pages that don’t have the resources to do so regularly often turn off the function.

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This is true, that part does make things easier for those of us that are disgusted with certain clinicians/ BNTs/ pros. I know i have added a few people to my “never will clinic with” list this year.

BUT I do worry that their influence is just normalizing hate/ racism/ bullying/ abuse/ etc which is why I think there needs to be some moderation or at least disable the comments.

And if they’re going to moderate, I think whoever on CotH is in charge needs to get some sort of sensitivity training. Right now, I know myself and others have been really disappointed in the moderation team here on the forums because of certain disparities in moderation practices.

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I’ll also add that for the most part I’m privileged enough that I am not directly impacted or hurt by the hateful comments. For me it is just a nice little heads up to never ever do business with that person, but not everyone has that same luxury.

I actually prefer the forum be a bit loose in the moderation. I am on another unrelated forum and half the time people are muted and banned because they said something that was considered too mean when its a simple comment like - “thats not right” :joy:

Hard to get any ideas discussed that way. JMO

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Yes, an excellent litmus test. As is noting who posts photographs that appear to have been stolen from photographers. I figure that, if you steal photos of your sale horse, I probably shouldn’t trust you enough to buy a horse from you.

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I’m seeing it both ways now since reading through the comments here. I think the comments do offer a chance to voice support for the victims, but wish the heinous people would refrain from commenting. I guess we can’t have it both ways. I think I’ll just refrain from reading the vile stuff.

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I just think the racism, bullying, and doxxing gets out of hand here and on FB. They have moderated the word “racist” in the past yet left a racial slur alone in the title of one of the most popular topics for weeks. That’s a huge disparity IMO. You can be racist, you just can’t call someone a racist on CotH.

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Agree with OP. Especially after it was stated that Ali N. And four witnesses to his recent safesport infraction were NOT INTERVIEWED or questioned by safesport…things that make you go hmmm.

Too much speculation and even more blatant lies (that are easily verifiable via showgroundslive, etc) spread via comment section on FB.

Good for posterity, and that’s about it…

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As an Australian… COTH Facebook is now blocked for me. F U Zucc!

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Well, to be clear, nothing has been stated by Safe Sport. The only statements have come from Ali.

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If this is true, I don’t agree with a largely broadcasted “this guy/gal is banned” post by any media. Even if they’re cleared, it does have a lasting impact to be put on a list like that. Safesport needs to take a little more time to gather all information before putting someone on a ban, even if it’s a “temporary ban.” Interviewing both parties does not take such a substantial amount of time that they can’t accomplish it within 24 hours.

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This is basically what I was getting at. Beneath the surface, there’s a major power discrepancy between Zuck & News Media playing out right now. It’s a chicken/egg scenario: Does Facebook maintain its value without publishers publishing to it? And do outside news sites (ie: COTH) survive without Facebook pushing their content? IOW: Does either survive without the other?

Australia has said FB is nuthin’ without Content Producers and They Should Be Paid (hoorah!). FB called the bluff & blocked the news sites… apparently, some compromise has been reached & access is being restored but … we should all be paying attention to this. Hopefully, it’s the first step of many to address the giant algorithm in our lives (and this stretches waaaaaay beyond the topic at hand).

For the record, I do think closing comments is the ideal answer but also recognize that doing so will strangle reach & ultimately public need-to-know will not be served. And then there’s the whole COTHdotcom taking the financial hit because people are generally arseholes issue, which was unfairly dismissed above.

@endlessclimb,

I strongly suspect that this is not true, especially since it comes from accused, not Safe Sport. This feels like deja vu all over again. Remember when GM’s and RG’s suspension were first announced, there was all the hue and cry about lack of due process, one accuser, he said/he said? Eventually it was revealed that their was an exhaustive investigation, multiple accusers and lots of evidence.

Also, Ali N saying that 4 witnesses to his infraction were not interviewed - didn’t he just tacitly admit that he committed the infraction? How many witnesses were there? 8? 10? And if you worked for him, and SS interviewed you and you corroborated the accusation, would you admit that to your employer? Or would you say “I have no idea, boss, they never talked to me?”

Like the other high profile suspensions, there is lots we don’t currently know and lots we’ll probably never know.

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You’re right, it could be a load of BS. We shall see!

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