Used them in both. Why are ammies crap riders? Don’t consider myself a pro but I galloped some of the best horses in the world, ridden some of the best jumpers in the world, have good hands, and common sense. It’s a versatile bit. A friend sent me one for my mare over here. Wanted to try it just in case. Not her thing as these things go, but tried none the less. Can give a horse some much needed security.
You were the one being higher than thou and you got called on it. Not my problem.
Terri
Actually that is one of my favorite bits for whatever that is worth. It doesn’t give you much in terms of brakes so I usually save it for race day. It definitely helps with horse that lug in or out and the solid mouthpiece helps prevent displacing and/or getting their tongue over the bit.
So on the subject of racing bits/equipment for off-track usage (with the caveat the horse in this case raced for five years) what is a good bit for a horse who spends a good chunk of time trying to get his tongue over the bit in addition to lugging out (the barn has your typical harness-farm training oval without a rail and there have been days when I am galloping him that I’m not 100% we’re going to actually TURN on the turns as he just goes progressively farther right)? And on the track or in the ring he devotes a bit of energy to trying to get his tongue over the bit. I can see from his win photos he had a tongue tie on, but I can’t see what sort of bit he’s got in. I do know he is NOT a fan of jointed bits–he goes in a rubber mullen D most of the time, but he’s not overly thrilled. (Show-ring legality is not an issue for us. Stopping power is also not a big problem as he needs a lot more go than whoa 99.9% of the time.)
Dancer, if he was racing, that would be a good bit to try. If you’re okay with not having a lot of whoa, and someone has one to borrow, why not try it for a few and if it works graduate him from it later. There are also racing bits with tongue depressors built in:
http://www.bigdweb.com/Racing-Bits/products/336/
A dexter (“ring snaffle”) is a maybe to help with control, but I do remember walking my horse in the ring once and he actually got the ring flipped under somehow. Never seen one do that before or since, and probably a freak thing lol
[QUOTE=Xctrygirl;5519368]
Shall we throw you a party then???
A BNT with a 100k jumper is not the type of person who inquired here.
Pro’s are capable of trying new stuff and using their skills to try it wisely.
Ammies… not so much.
And I am gonna stick with my original position on this.
It has no more place in jumpers than draw reins. And yes I do realize how much they’re used. I am entitled to my opinion too.
~Emily[/QUOTE]
Ahh, my friend Emily, possibly you should check your sources BEFORE you cast aspersions. I havent WON a 100k grand prix but I’ve ridden in a few. Feel free to visit my website. I’m a judge too. I ride very well, but I’m always looking to educate myself further. I thought this might possibly be a bit for a leaner,without a sharp mouthpiece.
Sorry you’ve ‘having a bad day’.
[QUOTE=citydog;5519939]
So how does a Norton bit work?
http://www.bigdweb.com/NORTON-BIT/productinfo/1745/[/QUOTE]
Found this with a google search:
Norton Bit – for horses that pull hard - to help overcome that problem. The Norton bit has the normal 2 rings (one on each side of the mouth) with 2 mouthpieces (bits) and a nosestrap. The reins pull on the bits causing a double scissor action within the mouth which pulls on the top of the mouth. A horse can still get it’s tongue over this bit although it is certainly harder for that to happen than with a normal bit. A tongue tie is often used in conjunction with a Norton bit to make sure a tongue problem is out of the equation.
[QUOTE=jengersnap;5518518]
Funny you should ask. Puss n Boots is our famous one for doing it up here at Fort Erie. He has a local stakes named for him, and the winning jock (often the trainer as well) jumps in the lake after the race in his honor 
http://www.internationalhorseracingdigest.com/node/466
The snow does melt and the grass grows in the sun for a few months a year up here. I’m not native, and I don’t think I could do perpetual winters.
The leather is like a rubber D, it does make it gummy/softer. We’ve used it with and without the leather depending on the horse. I don’t think it would be a good choice for jumping though. I think it comes from the harness world.[/QUOTE]
Our infield is considered one of the most beautiful in North America, too! 
Regarding the temperature…it is warm enough that a rider from WV would take her daughter frogging for supper some summer evenings!
We have also had many incidents of Canada geese getting involved in turf racing on the inner course. Feathers galore, and VERY offended geese!
Dee
ETA: For a horse getting his tongue over the bit, how about a Sure-Win (not pretty, but worth looking at), or (IIRC with the name) a running W?
Also trying to see what my youngest gelding ran in - don’t think it’s a ring bit. He apparently pulled pretty hard (I’ve encountered that exactly once with him and it was quite something!)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29582338@N02/2766241799/in/photostream/
[QUOTE=toomanyponies;5519921]
Ahh, my friend Emily, possibly you should check your sources BEFORE you cast aspersions. I havent WON a 100k grand prix but I’ve ridden in a few. Feel free to visit my website. I’m a judge too. I ride very well, but I’m always looking to educate myself further. I thought this might possibly be a bit for a leaner,without a sharp mouthpiece.
Sorry you’ve ‘having a bad day’.[/QUOTE]
Sorry couldn’t resist having a giggle! Oops!
[QUOTE=toomanyponies;5519921]
Ahh, my friend Emily, possibly you should check your sources BEFORE you cast aspersions. I havent WON a 100k grand prix but I’ve ridden in a few. Feel free to visit my website. I’m a judge too. I ride very well, but I’m always looking to educate myself further. I thought this might possibly be a bit for a leaner,without a sharp mouthpiece.
Sorry you’ve ‘having a bad day’.[/QUOTE]
Ok great you’re an accomplished rider and a judge. And herein lies my problem… You’re looking to bit up a horse that leans. And the question posed to us here (of the racing forum) is if a racing bit would be useful for a horse than leans in the h/J world, without using a sharp edged bit.
Ok now this is great… comraderie between the disciplines. Awesome. Right?
I don’t agree.
And yes me and my ideals are hard and fast and if I judged you as an ammy and not a pro, I will apologize for that. BUT as a pro, trainer and a judge, it’d be my hope that you’d not set an example for the non-pro’s of running around trying out different bits, but rather work on more investigation as to WHY said horse is leaning. And God forbid, but maybe stop jumping for awhile and go back to the poles and flatwork and time spent trying to ferret out the root of the leaning.
And I know this thing will get ugly. You’ll get mad that you do do that. I’ll insist then that if you could solve the root of the issue you wouldn’t need to overbit the horse with a racing bit and so on and so forth.
So how about we cut to the chase. I won’t use race bits on non race horses. And you will. Difference of opinion.
Good luck in your quest to win.
~Emily
[QUOTE=DeeThbd;5520303]
Also trying to see what my youngest gelding ran in - don’t think it’s a ring bit. He apparently pulled pretty hard (I’ve encountered that exactly once with him and it was quite something!)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29582338@N02/2766241799/in/photostream/[/QUOTE]
Dee, blew up the photo linked below (the other in the album) and its a houghton with the extra metal bar in the rings. I can see it on the off side, as well as the metal bar that goes under the chin. I think one we have is like that, not sure what the bar is for but it is a variant.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/29582338@N02/2766251989/in/photostream/
God forbid the OP ask an innocent question in an attempt to educate herself. Seriously? Some people need to lighten up. A lot. Yes, you are more than entitled to your opinions, as am I. But there are much better ways to express yourself than to be nasty for no good reason.
I agree focus on more flat work. For me having common bits between disciplines should not be such a stretch. Some I’d never have occasion to want to use. Leaning can be mouth issues, hind end issues, back issues ect so sometimes simple flat without looking into other things is more than bit. But this wasn’t about that so I didn’t chime in.
For me, I knew what my mare’s issues were. First, hyper flexion of her back. A far wider range of motion than most horses so it means she’s crazy flexible but yet takes longer to get stronger. No gadgets as that will make her sore and miserable. Two, I had a bad flipping horse dentist. I already ranted about that and whoever wants to have a go at me can. Sorry didn’t think I needed to go to dental school to make sure I didn’t get screwed. So I thought since I just had teeth done they shouldn’t be an issue.
So my mare was reluctant to move into the bit and she started jumping left. Partly greeness, partly issues not of her doing. As I have had luck in getting a horse to move into a cage bit and for it to give them security I tried it. She hated it. But in the meantime we got her other issues ironed out. She went in a hackamore for about a month and did very well, but the intention was to always get back to a bit. So she now goes in a skinny eggbutt. When I had a real dentist show me how her mouth was made it was easy to pick some bits she might like.
But I really think you should take it down a notch. It is actually quite ok to try different things even if it’s not specifically for your discipline. It’s called thinking outside the box and being a well rounded horseman.
I will chime in on some of the other bit questions and suggest a Waterford for horses that pull. I’ve had luck with it both galloping and jumping. But again it really depends on what’s going on with the whole picture.
Terri
I am with Emily on this one. Racing bits have no place in the show ring except in very experienced hands when all other options have been exhausted. I would also assume that a rider and judge of such esteem would not employ any training device they were not thoroughly acquainted with. Ammies are not crap riders by any means, they are the bread and butter of our industry, but I have a hard time fathoming that someone well educated enough to judge and rider in 100k classes would not need a bit up a horse with a training device they have no knowledge of. Ask not ‘what a bit can do for you’. Ask ‘what you can do for your horse’ to address the source of the problem.
And how, pray tell, are you supposed to know what a piece of equipment even does, without asking? Innocent question that deserved a good answer, not get the OP’s head bit off.
And note, I’m not saying a thing about the bit, how appropriate it may or may not be. I’m just astounded by the TONE of the response of some posters.
Thanks for the info on the bit. Some of us would never know these things unless a question was posted. So thank you OP for asking - as an owner of many OTTBs I am always interested in what they may have been ridden in vs the plain old happy mouth they respond so well to now. I have found that leaning and bowing are best corrected by teaching lateral movement, not by bitting up, but I am just a pleasure rider.
[QUOTE=jengersnap;5519668]
Dancer, if he was racing, that would be a good bit to try. If you’re okay with not having a lot of whoa, and someone has one to borrow, why not try it for a few and if it works graduate him from it later. There are also racing bits with tongue depressors built in:
http://www.bigdweb.com/Racing-Bits/products/336/
A dexter (“ring snaffle”) is a maybe to help with control, but I do remember walking my horse in the ring once and he actually got the ring flipped under somehow. Never seen one do that before or since, and probably a freak thing lol[/QUOTE]
Heh, I’d have to borrow from someone on here–the only people I know who race are some friends of the BO with harness ponies. (They do the fair circuits around here.) Even if they had one, it would be too small!
I’m thinking that he ran in a Dexter ring bit, looking at the side rings in his win picture. That seems like overkill for tooling around at home. He has an odd issue on the flat, that I initially thought was discomfort from teeth until the dentist came out and he kept on doing it, in that unlike most OTTBs, he would rather evade than lean on it (my old OTTB pulled like a freight train–if only we’d known about Waterfords with him) and he HATES jointed metal bits. Those result in head-flipping. With the rubber bits, he tries to get his tongue over it, but doesn’t object like he does to metal.
A bit is only severe as the hands that use it. I’m guessing that is why I personally don’t understand the uproar.
Tell me, is a Dee-bit ok to use on a jumper? Just wondering as that could be considered a racing bit. And a Houghton just is not that severe. So not understanding the uproar. An eggbutt snaffle in the wrong hands can be severe.
Tip on the ring bits if you’re worried they will flip. Get some thin nylon rope that fits through the bit connection in the middle. Tie the ring in place to that. Cut and burn. Wa la, no flipping.
Terri
[QUOTE=MightyBobbyMagee;5520147]
Found this with a google search:[/QUOTE]
Yeah, I’d seen that, but just couldn’t picture what attached where. Just found this image, though, which made it easier to visualize. http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i259/phoenixbauer/UNI_0688.jpg
[QUOTE=Equilibrium;5520741]
A bit is only severe as the hands that use it. I’m guessing that is why I personally don’t understand the uproar.
Tell me, is a Dee-bit ok to use on a jumper? Just wondering as that could be considered a racing bit. And a Houghton just is not that severe. So not understanding the uproar. An eggbutt snaffle in the wrong hands can be severe.
Tip on the ring bits if you’re worried they will flip. Get some thin nylon rope that fits through the bit connection in the middle. Tie the ring in place to that. Cut and burn. Wa la, no flipping.
Terri[/QUOTE]
Terri, the first trainer I ever worked for did a modified version of this; he’d use cotton string (like the kind feed bags are sewn up with) instead; it needed replacing more often, but if they swallowed it it is digestible. Very short- maybe half a finger in length.
Dee
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