How did you learn to feel the hind legs?

[Scribbler]

@Romily Bernard

Okay, just to make sure I have this clear:

At the walk, rib cage will fill out against my inside leg when the inside hind comes forward.

At the trot, when my inside hip comes forward, the inside hind is also coming forward.

At the canter, half halt as the mane flips up because the inside hind is coming forward.

Yes?

My horse is out on pasture vacation right now so I can’t go ride and test this out. But I think at the walk, the ribcage swings away when the hind foot comes up. As your inside leg swings under the horse, the inside back leg is moving forward. go for a trail ride behind a friend and watch how the horse and rider move together. Or go for a trail ride behind a friend that is hand walking a bareback horse so you can watch how the body moves. Very interesting if the horse has a lot of swing! Or watch the great computer simulations of how a horse moves that are out there. edited to add: which I can’t find now of course.

It’s true that when I returned to riding I could feel going short, crocked hocks, tight stifle, etc. in the older lesson horses but was never allowed to comment on it because clearly how could I tell since my riding was so deteriorated? I had only ridden a sound younger horse as a kid, so any disruption of symmetry was very obvious. If you grew up riding lesson horses you might take a certain amount of asymmetry as normal.

I’ve never had any trouble telling the canter lead, or a disunited canter. That gait just seems so obvious as it is not symmetrical. I almost always pick up the right posting trot now, but I am not sure how that happened. Certainly on any circle or bend, the wrong diagonal just feels . . . wrong. As far as telling which leg moves, I feel like my trot motion is more up and down (especially when posting) than side to side, but because the gait is diagonal, you always know wht the hind is doing by looking at the front.

[Kolsch]

@walktrot

We were at a Ray Hunt clinic once where he asked the riders to say “now” when the inside hind was coming forward. About half the riders did it correctly. I posted this on another thread about rotating hips:

I missed the other thead, so thanks for re-posting this. I’ve always wanted to do a “study” and ask that same question. I was going to guess it would be 50%.

My theory is that this is where language can help, or not help, subconsciously.

As in, if you describe it as when the leg is coming off the ground, the rider might innately associate “UP” with the leg coming forward. But, if you describe it as the leg coming under the horse, the rider might innately associate with “DOWN” on that side.

[phoenixrises]

@netg

Ride a powerful and short backed horse! It’s easy and instinctual on some horses, and more challenging on others. I know where my long-backed mare’s hind legs are because I’ve learned from other horses, but she would have been terrible to try to learn on. Only now that she is developing more power, fold in the hind legs and fold of her pelvis do I really feel connected to the hind legs.

Just wait until your instructor wants you to control which leg is the first one to move in a transition upward and last one in a transition down.

This a short backed horse who uses itself really does make it much easier to learn! My mare is this way but what I’ve learned from her I can now transfer to other horses. And yes close your eyes, start at the walk go from there…

[Scribbler]

Op I don’t know how often you get to ride outside of a lesson or focussed schooling session. Trail riding is really really good for learning to feel the horse and reinforcing your own position if you ride actively and don’t get distracted or chat or daydream. Just go for a good marching walk on a long rein, relax and let your body follow the swing. Don’t nag with the aids, just get the walk and then follow it with your body. You can’t feel the hind legs until you are in sync with the horse.

[Mukluk]

just practice. I would try to feel to which hind leg was coming forward and then check our shadow to verify. Now I can feel them. When maresy is channeling her inner rental horse plug, I squeeze my leg on the side where the hind leg just came off the ground and then repeat on the other side… Makes her speed up. Ha ha. Normally she is a very forward Red headed OTTB but on occasion this method adds more oomph to her stride.

[no.stirrups]

Shouldn’t be tedious at all. It is something I teach every rider in their first lesson, from newbies to advanced. No kidding. Start with not trying to assign labels, just feel. Just do a couple of laps noticing what is happening underneath you. Do you feel the horse’s rib cage swing back and forth? Do you feel your pelvis tip side to side? In the walk, your hip will drop and the horse’s barrel swings away from the side where the foot is in the air. If you can feel trot diagonals and canter leads you are already feeling it at those gaits, you just haven’t assigned the timing to particular feet. It is your instructors job to help you make those connections!

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

Get on a different horse, preferably a large, catty one who really moves. Then you will be able to feel it on yours. And likely will be able to know what you’re feeling for.

[Romily_Bernard]

Y’all are so awesome for helping me with this. Seriously. I got in a temper with myself and decided to try going bareback to see if that improved my feel and…it didn’t :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Wonder Pony was less than thrilled with our newfound intimacy. She thought I’d lost my mind. I might have. This is quickly turning into an obsession. Going to beg for a friend to longe me next.

[Mukluk]

Well the easy method that no one has mentioned is to stand on the side of the horse, put your hand on his back. and run your hand back toward the rump and then down. You will most definitely feel the hind legs!!! Be a good sport and give the horse a treat for his cooperation in this educational endeavor!!!

[Romily_Bernard]

LOL! Mukluk for the win!

And believe me, she gets LOADS of treats AND back rubs AND pampering. She deserves it.

[Samantha37]

I’m still in the process of learning this, but one thing I have found that has helped me is to do exercises that increase the hind leg activity such as correct head to the wall leg yields, leg yields across the diagonal, etc. Learning to keep the hind legs active has really helped me figure out how to feel them

[Abracadabra]

i’m in a similar situation I’m learning to feel when my horse is lifting his back, and truly “through” - its not easy, and so unfamiliar, as he’s an OTTB and used to pulling from the front!! any suggestions?

[Nestor]

@Mondo

There are many good suggestions here. May I add (donning flamesuit) you may never feel it. Some people just can’t. Same with posting diagonal. If you can’t feel when you are correct, you probably won’t ever be able to without looking.

It doesn’t mean that you will never be a successful rider, only that you will probably always have to work on perfecting your timing of aids. (If you don’t know where his hind legs are in space, you can’t give a canter aid at the right time, for instance. When it’s time for tempi changes, this can really bite you in the patoot.)

Take all the suggestions above, about riding with eyes closed (on the lunge, please) and feeling where YOU are at all 3 gaits so that you can start to correlate your movement with the horse’s.

No flaming from me. I do agree, some people just don’t have the same ability to feel the horse as others. I don’t claim to know why, but have seen many try and try for years and not be able to feel the horse.

One tip I haven’t seen mentioned is to make sure you are relaxed. If you are tense, you can’t feel anything!

OP, if your horse wasn’t very appreciative of your bareback attempt, try riding without stirrups at the walk. Especially at the end of a good ride, like a lesson, when your horse is really moving forward and stepping under herself well.

[Gloria]

The moment that hind leg lift up, you should feel your corresponding hip drop down then swing inward. There is a “bump” on that hip of yours when the hind foot hits the ground and starts the weight bearing phase. That is your cue. Try it at walk, focusing on one side then the other, with a ground caller first to confirm it. It’s actually very easy once you get it.

If you don’t have one, get a copy of Central Riding. That book is invaluable.

[walktrot]

@Gloria

If you don’t have one, get a copy of Central Riding. That book is invaluable.

I wish I had said that! The original Centered Riding lays out the theory and basics of the way you use your body, how to find and move your center, breathing, soft eyes, and so forth. A great way to start. Centered Riding 2 is loaded with exercises, pictures and drawings that are used by instructors and clinicians. If you have access to a CR instructor a few lessons can be invaluable.

[alicen]

@Romily Bernard

Yeah, I’m confident I can get this…eventually. If I can tell canter leads and posting diagonals without looking, I can do this.

Sounds like it’s going to be tedious as hell tho.

It’s well worth it to give the optimally placed and most effective weight, leg, rein aid.

[RPM]

Get out of your head and into your seat. Don’t think it – feel it. Like dancing. You may have to forget about “form” and leg position, etc., for a little while; just go with Wonder Pony’s stride and feel what he’s doing.

One trainer I’ve heard of puts it quite differently but I don’t know you well enough to know how you’d take it!

[WhereDidMySeatGo]

I will chime in with an answer to the original question, since my experience is a bit different. When I was a teenager just off of ponies my OTTB would only canter if you asked correctly. So, my trainer had me work on making his walk as collected as possible and then had me play around with turns on the haunches. By collecting the walk my tb got a more up and down motion instead of a forward swinging motion, so I started being able to feel his hind legs. Once I could feel the hind legs in a smaller, bouncier walk I started being able to (eventually) feel them in a normal walk.

As an aside - I am not certain if this is OP’s problem- but when I borrowed a western trail saddle to ride my short back mare on trail I couldn’t feel where her hind legs were.

[Romily_Bernard]

More great comments. I so appreciate it, y’all

Nah, not in a western saddle. We’re in a dressage saddle. Excellent point about the CR book. I need to dig it out again. I know I have it somewhere.

Very interesting approach to walk-canter transitions. Makes total sense, but I would be scared to try it with this mare. She interprets collection as “whoa” unless we’re jumping. No doubt due to something I’m doing. Or not doing. Probably not energizing those hind legs. Never gotten a bouncy walk or trot from her. Forward, yes. Folding her hind legs as she moves forward, not much.

And OF COURSE Nate got my lesson cancelled so I have another two weeks of seething and obsessing.

[rennyben]

When I switched from a short backed Appaloosa to a long backed downhill TB that traveled with his hind legs out behind him I could no longer feel them. The key for me was to get him to bring his hind legs up under him. Lots of shoulder-in, lateral work helped me feel and him to bring his leg up. Good luck!!