How do people afford to consistently show multiple horses?

[Scribbler]

@Amberley

@LaurieB

That was when I realized that I didn’t really want to spend my winters in Florida, or my summers travelling from one showground to another, and only seeing and talking to the same people week after week.

At least WEF and Ocala are kinda nice. Thermal is like spending 8 weeks in a truckstop parking lot in the middle of nowhere. But yes, the US show circuit is a serious grind and not for everyone. These days with the long circuits I think people have a bit more stability in housing and a chance to bring their families along for a while and not live in a hotel room 9 months a year and it is better. But being on the road all the time is really tough unless you are the kind of person that is not affected by a complete lack of routine.

Going to a show as a teen supported by an entire team of adults paid by your parents to keep you safe and on track is a far more comfortable experience than doing the same thing as an adult, even in a full service training barn. As an adult you are absolutely aware of so many factors, including budget but also managing your own meals and schedule and work/life balance.

When you are a teen all the older kids and adults involved in anything can seem glamorous and fascinating and unattainable, but when you are a 40 year old established professional in a good career who has been in and out of horses your whole life, even if you are still really invested in competing as an ammie, you will find the world much more familiar but also much less mysterious and fascinating.

Once you accept the role money plays in buying adult ammie success, once you are experienced enough to spot bad training and bad attitudes, once you are out of the constant interpersonal competition of junior world, you will likely survive by sticking to your own track and making the best of what you can afford to do. And finding a great deal of satisfaction in that.

For instance, the DIY ammies who can buy a fresh OTTB, keep it on their own acreage, turn it in to a jumper or eventer with weekly lessons from their coach, and show locally out of their own truck and trailer.

We have a number of people like that on this board. They are very rightly quietly proud of their skills and accomplishments, and very satisfied with what they can do. Probably at this stage they would not change places with a high dollar ammie in a wrap around training program on a made horse, because they’d have no scope to use their hard win training and horsemanship skills.

One of the wonderful gifts available to adults is autonomy. Teens get very little autonomy unless they carve out a private niche in their lives

[lenapesadie]

I can remember being a child and horses and my “horse goals” were my top and only priority. As an adult, I still prioritize my horse to a degree. I bought a farm for him after all, but there is so much more to life than a horse show.

Even if I had unlimited funds and heaps of talent, I wouldn’t be happier showing every weekend. Sounds like having a job with rigid and long hours imo. But also, I’d miss my family. Not just my spouse, but my parents and siblings and niblings. I’d miss my garden. My house. My own bed. My routine. I might not miss work if I had unlimited funds

I totally agree there’s plenty of achievements and satisfaction to be found without spending a fortune horse showing each year. I bred, raised and trained up my horse. It’s something I’m very proud of. I’m very proud of the pension I provided for dearly departed TB Norman. I’m very proud of my stray pony.

But I’m also proud of my hydrangeas and the sweaters I’ve knit.

Now, if I wanted to do more horse showing and I went back in time, I’d probably become a dentist and move to Wellington.

[BostonHJ]

I was on a long drive yesterday and thought more about how much doing the circuit with multiple horses actually costs, as a way to come up with the expense and then reverse engineer how much you need to make. These numbers are loose and I believe potentially low.

Assumptions: Horses are in a high-end full training program and the monthly bill includes their services at home & shows. Two horses; client is doing 26 weeks of shows; they average 1.5 horses per show so we’ll round up to 40 weeks of one horse at a show for billing purposes. 12 weeks of WEF, Devon, Upperville, 3 weeks of indoors is already 17 weeks; easy to throw in some HITS up north, Tryon, Lake Placid, Traverse City, Vermont, Kentucky, WEF warm-up weeks, etc.

2 horses in show training program - $15k/month - $180,000 per year
40 weeks of $1k horse show bills - $40,000 per year
Shipping to shows (low bc presumably some are a circuit) - $500 per show - $20,000 per year
40 weeks of braiding 4 days a week (2 hunter divisions) - $150 per day - $24,000 per year
Flights/rental cars/housing for rider - feels low - $1500 per week - 26 weeks - $39,000

This puts us at $303,000. If you buy a single new horse this year, you are over $500,000 of post-tax income needed. We haven’t paid vet bills, insurance bills, shoeing, tack, paying for a horse that is laid up or retired… and we certainly haven’t paid our mortgage or bought a car or even gotten ourselves a haircut. Keep in mind horses are the ultimate depreciating asset. A car could be totaled and worth $0 - but it will never have a career ending energy that still has you paying board/vet/feet for potentially 20 years.

I had done these general calculations before and actually found it really grounding - of course I can’t keep up in this sandbox and I don’t want to live the kind of life where I need to earn this income (because I promise you, it is earned - no one is paying someone $2m a year to work 9-5). Once I took a step back I realized as much as I don’t love the full time show circuit lifestyle for myself, I really don’t like it for the horses. Beezie Madden got a dog for the first time when she stepped back from showing at the top levels because it was the first time she had any time for one. If you look at her current, still-packed show schedule, it gives you a glimmer of how much of the rest of life she had to set aside to compete.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@BostonHJ

A car could be totaled and worth $0 - but it will never have a career ending energy that still has you paying board/vet/feet for potentially 20 years.

Heck, when my 2005 Honda was totaled by the insurance company (I fixed it rather than scrapped it, but that’s another story) I got money for it. Not the same with a horse.

Everyone’s posted some great responses, but another thing to think of is that in at least some careers, like Big Law or Big Banking, you’re also expected to maintain a certain lifestyle to seem “part of the club.” The “horse poor” frugal lifestyle that some people maintain to keep one or two horses (like the software engineer who works remotely but wears yoga pants for Zoom calls that are easy to throw on after mucking stalls in the morning for the horses they have at home) isn’t feasible if you’re working in some careers where you’re expected to dress the part, go out after work, or even live within a certain zip code and send your kids to certain schools.

I’ve even heard anecdotally that some of these industries like employees who live lavishly, since they know if someone is at uncomfortably at the margins of their income they are more motivated to produce.

[fivestrideline]

Thank you for laying that all out! What a reality check about the hard number we are talking just for the showing part…

[Horsehusband]

@BostonHJ

2 horses in show training program - $15k/month - $180,000 per year

This is where moving to lower cost area’s makes a huge difference. Midwest based programs probably range from $2k-3k.

[BostonHJ]

Yes - but my $15k for two horses was inclusive of show fees/grooming since the bigger programs are all inclusive with the expectation you’ll be showing a lot (disclaimer: I have been out of showing for a few years and this may have changed). If you are paying $2500 a month per horse in a less expensive training program, you’re paying probably $1500 per showing week for trainer fees/day care. With 40 show weeks per year, that’s 3.33 shows per month or another $5000 to the trainer. This would bring the monthly board/training money down to $10k, or $120k per year. It is certainly a savings over my quoted $180k per year, but it is still a hefty number.

[Scribbler]

Yes! This is the kind of opportunity possible when you are a really high skilled ammie that doesn’t need a trainer or training program, when you are effectively your own trainer. And it sounds like you have been ahead of the curve as a working junior from the start. Huge admiration on my part.

The OP is not as far as I can see on that trajectory as a junior. I’m sure they ride well enough but they are still at the stage of having to pay their way, either for lesson, lease or purchase. And they are wondering how you sustain that into adulthood and perhaps get to the big venues as an adult that they can’t afford as a junior.

I think for a junior just getting into showing like OP the aspirational high dollar h/j world can appear like the only horse world that exists, and the skills they are learning are quite narrow in scope. Stories like yours show how many other interesting and rewarding avenues you can go down as a competent and independent adult that doesn’t need to be in a training program for ever

[Scribbler]

@Horsehusband

@BostonHJ

2 horses in show training program - $15k/month - $180,000 per year

This is where moving to lower cost area’s makes a huge difference. Midwest based programs probably range from $2k-3k.

The catch is that lower cost of living areas often have lower salaries. Often the highest paid jobs are in specific cities, like finance in NYC or tech in SF Bay Area or Seattle. And the high salaries drive up costs for everything.

So we can look at lower costs for land (which drives horse care costs both hay and actual boarding space) in a lower cost of living area, but those costs are usually still high for the average income there.

I could buy an actual 20 acre ranch up in cattle country for the cost of a mediocre 2 bedroom condo in the city but my job category doesn’t exist there.

Now my friends who are fully remote IT (game developer and an IT HR person) were able to leverage this to buy property in a LCL rural area, but most of us can’t

[Horsehusband]

@BostonHJ

Yes - but my $15k for two horses was inclusive of show fees/grooming since the bigger programs are all inclusive with the expectation you’ll be showing a lot

Some programs do get nickel and dimey but on the upper end of the range I quoted I’ve seen show fees included.

[Horsehusband]

@Scribbler

The catch is that lower cost of living areas often have lower salaries. Often the highest paid jobs are in specific cities, like finance in NYC or tech in SF Bay Area or Seattle. And the high salaries drive up costs for everything.

So we can look at lower costs for land (which drives horse care costs both hay and actual boarding space) in a lower cost of living area, but those costs are usually still high for the average income there.

I could buy an actual 20 acre ranch up in cattle country for the cost of a mediocre 2 bedroom condo in the city but my job category doesn’t exist there.

Now my friends who are fully remote IT (game developer and an IT HR person) were able to leverage this to buy property in a LCL rural area, but most of us can’t

For the most part I’m seeing jobs move to more remote based. For example, I’m a director for a large name Management Consulting Firm, and as long as I’m near a decent airport I can more or less live wherever.

[onlyTBmares]

I’ve been following this thread and immediately thought of it when this article popped up:

JPMorgan just capped junior bankers’ hours—at 80 per week

[julia.eq.h]

80 hours per week is a lot!!

[fivestrideline]

That’s the thing about banking - they make $$$$ on paper but the hourly wage is ridiculously low. Sure you bring home big money, but you work the equivalent of two or more FULL TIME jobs, and have no days off for up to 3 months.

Notice JP Morgan released this as a “look how great of a company we are!” bit . Means the industry is much worse on average.

I may not make big money, but I’m typing this while hand grazing my young horse and watching the others enjoy their pasture.

[lenapesadie]

I work in “finance” and have legit seen folks fall out, pass out and full blown panic attacks at their desks. One year, we had the ambulance out on what felt like a weekly basis.

And we aren’t working 80 hour weeks. I’m not sure it’s any better to have your hours capped and then be freaking out bc your work isn’t done and the bosses are breathing down your neck

[onlyTBmares]

Yeah it is a lot. And by limiting that what they’re saying is people used to work 100+ hrs a week. I would guess that those wanted to move ahead still work well over 80.

It’s good food for thought. It’s impossible to ride horses more than one or two days a week at those hours. So even if you could afford to send your horses down to WEF, really you’d be sending them down for your trainer to show and get a class or two on the weekend. You very likely wouldn’t be ripping around the 1.20m or doing the 3’6” hunters because you wouldn’t have the strength/fitness/finesse. Plenty of people are happy with that arrangement. I would prefer to ride 6 days a week no matter what. I can’t afford to show at the big shows, I will never own the horseflesh, but week after week after week I spend hours in the saddle. Year round. I would choose that 100/100 times

[NoSuchPerson]

@Horsehusband

… as long as I’m near a decent airport I can more or less live wherever.

In the company I worked for, this was true, but with qualifiers. For example, the last 4 years before I retired, I packed up and moved to a different state and worked from home. I was allowed to do that because I was a senior staff member with a proven record of independent, high performance.

They have also hired new employees and allowed them to remain in their current locations, working from home. But those are all highly qualified individuals whose expertise can’t be found in other candidates who are more amenable to relocating.

Other than those situations, employees are expected to show up multiple days/week at the office.

People who are high performers and whose skills and contributions are highly valued by their employers have a lot more options in controlling their work life. But usually in order to reach that point, it takes hard work and time toiling away while not having a lot of control over your work life.

[mika0116]

LOL no it isn’t if you’re an IB

I regularly BILLED 90 -100 hrs a week for months /years on end, not including commuting and admin hours

If 80 hrs/week is a lot to you, you’re certainly not cut out for IB. But maybe at a Swiss bank you can work 80 for hundreds of thousands of dollars less per year than a US bank.

You’re barely 16 (don’t yet have a CA drivers license) – let yourself grow up and you’ll learn what sort of lifestyle you want to have after you get into and finish uni!

[GraceLikeRain]

@mika0116

I regularly BILLED 90 -100 hrs a week for months /years on end, not including commuting and admin hours

I get that working 7 AM - 10 PM Monday through Friday plus nearly as many hours Saturday/Sunday must have been really really lucrative but what motivated you? It seems like quality of life, hobbies, socializing, travel, etc. would have been shelved for years on end so I’m curious what kept you pushing at that level?

[mika0116]

Money & (future) Freedom / Independence

My family made me financially independent by uni years and there’s gonna be no transfer of wealth to me - one parent is already dead and died in 7 figures of debt and homeless. I grew up in a financially chaotic home and I never want to depend on ANYONE for wealth besides my employer as we live in a late stage version of capitalism.

I’m also introverted and don’t really like or respect 85- 90% of the human population (I think they’re asleep / boring / unsophisticated/ uninteresting / uninspiring). I’m neurodivergent (I think that is pretty obvious in a lot of my posts) &
I have CPTSD which results in a lack of empathy. I find so many people’s perspectives dissatisfying due to the horrors of which I have endured being so much “more” than their in comparison “simple problems that I don’t even view as problems” and I lack the emotional empathy to care that much about their perspective that feels sheltered and juvenile to me, personally.

I have cognitive empathy, but I often just find most people / their problems/ their lives completely simple and not relatable. I intellectually get that for them putting down an elderly animal is sad, but compared to what I have experienced, it doesn’t register to me as a big deal in the slightest. I have to mask in a lot of interpersonal relationships with the “gen pop”.

I say all this to sum up why I don’t care much about socialization and that my definition of quality of life is very different than others’. Means to an end and for me… the means totally justified the ends.

I didn’t have a long term romantic relationship from 21- 28/29ish - I was a f* girl and had a great time with many partners who we would mutually discard each other when it got too familiar or boring. Back then I rarely saw anyone as a psychological equal and I found most men too “simple” and filled with gender role bias and the ones who were as tortured as I was where we mentally and emotionally “saw” each other - also couldn’t be in a healthy relationship for the same reasons -general emotional unavailability.

I am working on emotional empathy via therapy and chemical treatments… it is slow progress,

I am married now (married in my 30s) to someone that feels generally the same as the above ^. I met them when I was winding down my PE days. Childfree.

I quit horses - I used to run marathons during that time, I had friends who I either only saw 3x a year or partied with between the hours of 1am and 6am – I slept less than 4 hours a night for about a decade… I partied and traveled some - mostly during Christmas / New Years. I had about 1 month off each year and did stuff then and sacrificed the rest.

Was it worth it, for me (I truly recognize that I am not within the range of “normal”), yes, 100%