How do people afford to consistently show multiple horses?

[fivestrideline]

So this has gotten very techy and finance centered and it’s SO INTERESTING! However, I wanted to offer another idea to @julia.eq.h and anyone similar.

If this sector of jobs and the pressure and demand that comes with them seems overwhelming or not a good fit, I’ll offer up engineering again as a great choice.

Engineering is so broad and means a ton of different things, but if it sounds good to have a job that’s often 9-5, regular holidays, lots of upward mobility, takes only a bachelor’s degree to get good work, a growing push for women in the sector, and often can support a horse or two if one is smart or has a spouse in the workforce - check out mechanical and electrical (etc) engineering.

Specifically FEA is hot right now - essentially the idea is to run simulations of physical testing for prelim and certification purposes. Right now the FEA models aren’t reflecting the real world super well (generally), but companies want this tech ASAP. It’s a nice mix of software/computer science stuff (modeling) and real world testing and development. Materials is another focus in high demand for related reasons.

Design engineers are more flexible and have more regular hours vs test engineers IME, but that may vary by company.

Will most engineering jobs put you in the top 1% and buy you a string of top hunters? No. But a lot of directors and c-suite in the business are engineers with MBAs paid for by the company, at least in my world. There’s a lot of variety to be had with relatively minimal schooling, and the companies love to foot the bill for continuing education of promising candidates.

[Midge]

@CHT

Local rider used to finance her 6 month out of the year show schedule by being a high end stripper.

I don’t think her horse was particularly expensive (jumper and eventer), so she didn’t have a huge upfront cost, but she was able to afford a nice truck and trailer and to be on the road showing.

And you can pick up gigs almost anywhere you might travel.

[Midge]

@Foitin

Technically correct, yes, but certainly only legitimately attainable for those under 40, childless and without other significant responsibilities: aging parents, parenting 24/7, major work leadership roles, self/child/family health issues, community jobs (coaching, tutoring, service), pets that can’t travel, owning and caring for a farm. I always laugh out loud when I see people on here making remarks about how they make zoom calls in their cars at horseshows like its a badge of courage. Lordy! Not grumping at you, just at me for being old!

This would apply to almost every sport, then. I can’t imagine why under 40 is a prerequisite. And your last three are either/or.

[Midge]

Excellent post that is also good for life in general.

[clanter]

@Ponyplusaninch

One of the questions I like to ask is “tell me about a time you screwed up at work–what did you do to fix it, and what did you learn from it?”

in the military I was a site supervisor at a combat air traffic control tower that was handling a take off or landing an average of every 20 seconds, there were fifteen approach departure corridors that facilitated this volume of traffic.

Certifying a new controller was the hardest job I ever had as I had to let them see if they realized what a screwed up mess they had made then see if they could correct the errors before overstepping them to straighten the mess up I had to be about five or six steps ahead of them all the time to see if they knew what they were doing. After the first week of having to do this I relaxed believing as long as they do not kill some one then it was OK

[Foitin]

Agreed about the age thing. In that vein, there is a reason why the “middle adults” (36-49) is the smallest and least competitive section of the adult hunters by far, high achiever type women who had children later, busy mid-career, saddled with both child-rearing responsibilities and aging parents that have less time to practice and buy the fanciest horse they will ever be able to afford. Not aged-out juniors financed directly by their parents (not just through their inherited wealth) competing on the weekends while in college or during the summer, not older women who have more buying power and typically, flexibility, even if they have significant businesses.

[vxf111]

TL;DR “ain’t American capitalism grand?”

[Ponyplusaninch]

That is a job I don’t envy. Are the retirement perks as good as I’ve heard? I spoke with a controller who told me he was set to make north of $200k for the year which is dope–but also, holy cow IDK if I could handle that job. Some of those folks are probably incredibly brilliant chess players the way they have to be so far ahead in planning AND being reactive at the same time.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Well, also it’s sheer durability for older women to just stick it out so long!

I’m someone who has honestly been priced out of riding at this point, and (I probably don’t need to state this), don’t advise anyone to go into anything having to do with writing (or the arts or publishing). Not that writing isn’t important, but definitely a skill that’s great to have in addition to a technical skill.

However, as someone who has freelanced as a creative in a multitude of industries, I think the best advice I could give for job security is to have an indispensable and unique skill few others possess. Being the most talented or hard-working person with a skill lots of other people can do, even if they’re less talented, educated, or hard-working than you but can be hired more cheaply (or if your work can be outsourced) is the kiss of death.

[dmveventer]

@fivestrideline

However, I wanted to offer another idea to @julia.eq.h and anyone similar.

If this sector of jobs and the pressure and demand that comes with them seems overwhelming or not a good fit, I’ll offer up engineering again as a great choice.

Yes, thank you for bringing us back around. You do not need a crazy high-pressure job in order to afford horses. The conversation got pretty niche and definitely is not representative of the entire working world, there are a lot of paths to get where OP wants to be. I have a government job that pays good money but nothing like what some people on this thread are talking about; the benefits, stability, and flexibility more than make up for it and are great for supporting horses. I personally don’t show hunters anymore but I’ve worked with a few people who do. Once you start working up the ranks the money is there, especially if you’re a dual-income household, and the generous vacation time definitely helps with showing. Plus the fact that I can’t get laid off means I can spend my discretionary income more freely without worrying about having as much of a savings buffer to cover a job loss or pay cut. Government jobs cover pretty much every field out there which will impact exactly what they look like in practice (even within my area flexibility and hours vary a lot, and I’ve done the full range) but it’s definitely worth considering.

[MadTrotter]

@CHT

Local rider used to finance her 6 month out of the year show schedule by being a high end stripper.

Stormy Daniels used to post here until she was bullied off the site. She was very sweet.

[Trekkie]

Healthcare in the US is falling apart and in desperate need of physicians and advanced practice providers, as well as all skilled nursing staff and skilled technicians. There are many areas of work after you slog through your education (which may not allow for much time or money to ride) that would provide finances and flexibility to ride and own horses. Not the multiples at a high level that the OP was asking about but at least a decent income with some free time. After almost 30 years in healthcare I now get my health insurance though my husband’s job (teacher) and work “prn” or “as needed” which, because the needs are so high, I can basically make my own schedule and work when I want to. Lots of flexibility and lucrative enough to support my riding and showing and small farm. Definitely not at the top of the financial food chain but can enjoy showing one horse and support the retirees.

[julia.eq.h]

Yes! I a planning to be an engineer because it is so broad and I can go any direction I want after college! My dad is an engineer and my mom is similar so I’ve learned to love physics and math and everything in between, so engineering seems great!!

[fivestrideline]

Definitely a good option! Especially with contacts in the industry!

[nutmeg]

At one point I groomed for a Western-born sheikh of Oman who got his start by sourcing rustbucket freighters from the harbor in Rotterdam and smuggling Russian oil to South Africa in defiance of apartheid sanctions. So that’s an option not frequently suggested by career counselors. He had a nice string in Wellngton.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

I mean, I think we all assumed the OP was looking for legal options! If not, well, that opens up things considerably!

[DownYonder]

@fivestrideline

A lot of jobs that went remote are now hybrid, and a lot of positions that went hybrid are now going back to fully in person. There are a lot of reasons for this which I won’t get into, but the majority of jobs don’t actually care that productivity is up for remote workers. There are other motivations to have workers in the office even if they’re calling in to zoom meetings from their desks all day.

I am super far behind but I wanted to say my employer is mandating at least 2 days in the office every week for everyone who lives within 50 miles of the office. We were almost all 100% remote during the pandemic and the company thrived, but even though mgmt lauded us on how productive we were, they still decided they want us in the office. They said the reason is that they are having trouble retaining new hires - before the pandemic, the average retention rate for new hires was 7 years or so, but during the pandemic and even afterwards, the retention rate dropped to 2-3 years. And the folks that were leaving said they didn’t feel a sense of belonging or engagement here, so the company in its great wisdom decided the “fix” was to require everyone to be in the office. Scuttlebutt is that it hasn’t worked as even more people are leaving the company (no surprise) - but the morons in the C-suite won’t admit it.

[MHM]

@Foitin

older women who have more buying power and typically, flexibility, even if they have significant businesses.

Some of the most competitive classes at WEF are the under saddle classes for the most mature adult hunters as well as the low adult hunters.

Some of those ladies can afford to buy the very best ones, and they all want to have the hack winner in case they have less success over jumps. So you end up with a flat class where there might be at least a dozen who could win the hack just about anywhere else. Lol.

[DownYonder]

@Ponyplusaninch

BlockquoteTBH, the executives seem to be in safer and less at-risk roles than middle managers and ICs and I truly believe it’s because they’re just throwing their staff under the bus for bad leadership. The absolute redundancy at the higher levels is astounding, but yet they all seem to survive the layoffs.

Can confirm this is 100% true. It’s ugly. I’ve had to learn to be real detached from outcomes and also not take personal offense when someone tries to throw me/my work under the bus. Lots of therapy and lots of self assurance and awareness

This behavior is also why I see A LOT of folks moving to being independent contractors and not staying in salaried positions. They have more power over their career, and if an exec tries to throw them under the bus, they can just say “duck you” and move long to somewhere their work is more appreciated.

I can commiserate. I just got thrown off a project/product line I am passionate about and have worked on for eight years (the only person in the company with expertise in a particular aspect of the product). Basically the product team stabbed me in the back and threw me under the bus because I wouldn’t acquiesce to their shortened timeline - they moved product release up by 6 weeks and DEMANDED that I meet the new schedule, which was absolutely impossible given that I was already working 50-60 hour weeks trying to meet the original schedule (I’m hourly and they wouldn’t approve more OT). My manager originally backed me but then two days later told me she was giving the project to someone else - a new young hotshot whose hard job skills are lacking but who is very ambitious and also very, very good at schmoozing with management.

I can’t trust my manager anymore since she has kicked me to the curb and there are no other openings at the company for someone with my skills, so I elected to retire. I also suspect ageism was at work - I am the oldest IC on our team, and was the oldest IC on that particular project. The young know-it-alls have no use for an old f*** like me, but the funny thing is that since I am not gone yet, I have been keeping an eye on the work the new kid is doing - and it ain’t gonna fly with our legal department. Oops…

[Ponyplusaninch]

Can I put in plugs for two other potential career paths?

1. Pharmacy. I know a number of pharmacists (we have one at my barn!) who do very well for themselves and ride–maybe not multiple horses, but they still show a few times a year and have lovely horses. Usually starting salary already gets you solidly into six figures and goes up from there. It’s not just your average CVS pharmacist–I know some folks that do specialty work and/or partner with more modern healthtech companies and work on fascinating projects.

2. Sales Engineer. This takes a special person: you have to be knowledgable enough in your area of expertise to be a trusted advisor and get down to the nitty gritty of how things work, but you also have to be gregarious enough to approach people and talk to them about your product. The latter is where a lot of engineers struggle. So if you are a more outgoing engineer or, at the very least, enjoy talking to people, this might be something to consider down the line as you build up your engineering chops and gain an area of expertise. My SO was courted to be a sales engineer, but he didn’t want to travel is very devoted to the cause of public sector and making sure people have safer lives (it warms my black, jaded, withering heart to know he cares that much about society).