How do people afford to go to Florida for the winter to train?

[Scribbler]

I get a 12 month sabbatical every 7 years and I teach two out of three terms, so typically I have 3 months of nonteaching time. I take those 3 months in the summer. But both sabbatical and nonteaching term are meant to be productive research and professional development not flat out vacation.

Nevertheless it would be theoretically possible for someone to teach in summer term and abscond Jan to April. But then that person would be working full time in the summer and not be able to ride, train, and show fully then.

We need to propose and complete a scholarly project for our sabbatical year and if that’s not completed we are in trouble. Plus I am not sure how good it would look professionally if we made it too obvious that our entire nonteaching term was a wash every year

So even for a relatively comfortable professional the time involved could compromise professional standing.

Plus I can afford a horse. If I made a few adjustments I could even afford to keep her at a full board training barn. But for that to make sense I’d need a new horse :). But I don’t think I could afford all that plus go down South every winter, certainly not on the Canadian exchange rate!

Paradoxically also if you have a good professional job on salary you don’t have the time in your week to take on other part time work. I do my job, I ride daily and look after my own horse. And really that’s the max.

So for someone in my position going to Florida regularly would be financially draining and professionally compromising. Now if I had worked my way up to a riding position where it was even remotely a good next step, I might feel differently. But on the other hand, the reason I will never be riding at that level is surely connected to the fact I didn’t ride for 20 years while I travelled, collected degrees and found a tenure track job.

So while some middle income folks may be able to make it happen through heroic efforts, I think the whole setup is designed for folks for whom the money and time is no big deal, like me dropping $500 on a multi day clinic. I know lots of riders who couldn’t afford that, too.

​

[OneTwoMany]

@MysticOakRanch

Believe me, it is all “business expense” - their business “sponsors” the horse, or their child/wife/whomever is hoping to be an Olympian, or they set up a shell business. Happens all the time, whether legitimate or not.

Setting hopeful Olympians aside, my question was more about ammies.

There certainly are folks that set up C-corps or S-corps for the liability protection and they run all their horse-related endeavors through that entity. However, that doesn’t mean the individual is being “sponsored” or they are able to “write off” their horse showing expenses for an undeserved tax benefit.

[Scribbler]

@OneTwoMany

Setting hopeful Olympians aside, my question was more about ammies.

There certainly are folks that set up C-corps or S-corps for the liability protection and they run all their horse-related endeavors through that entity. However, that doesn’t mean the individual is being “sponsored” or they are able to “write off” their horse showing expenses for an undeserved tax benefit.

Canada just closed a loophole whereby you could spread income from a family business around the family members to reduce the total earned income tax burden.

Rather than earn $1 million pay your income taxes and give Grannie a spending allowance of $50,000, you put her on the payroll and pay her $50,000 and the income tax is much less. And maybe you also put that as a business expense.

I know this was common practice and legal because some relatives were doing it.

It only worked with a family owned business obviously, not for professionals or if you’re in a public corporation.

I don’t know much about the American tax code or even the Canadian code for businesses, but I expect there are lots of ways of having your business sponsor an athlete, even at the middling levels. Surely a construction firm gets some kind of deduction for sponsoring a little league team?

[OneTwoMany]

@Scribbler

Canada just closed a loophole whereby you could spread income from a family business around the family members to reduce the total earned income tax burden.

Rather than earn $1 million pay your income taxes and give Grannie a spending allowance of $50,000, you put her on the payroll and pay her $50,000 and the income tax is much less. And maybe you also put that as a business expense.

I know this was common practice and legal because some relatives were doing it.

It only worked with a family owned business obviously, not for professionals or if you’re in a public corporation.

I don’t know much about the American tax code or even the Canadian code for businesses, but I expect there are lots of ways of having your business sponsor an athlete, even at the middling levels. Surely a construction firm gets some kind of deduction for sponsoring a little league team?

In the US, if “grannie” or “ammie” is collecting a salary of XX dollars, from a family business, the business pays employer taxes (social security, medicare, unemployment, workman’s comp, disability, etc.) and then granny/ammie is responsible for federal, state, their portion of medicare, their portion of social security and other taxes as well. All of which is hardly a “write-off” as some posters have suggested.

If we are talking about a business not owned by the ammie paying for all of the ammie’s horse show expenses, or a portion of the expenses, under USEF rules, ammie’s aren’t allowed to accept remuneration for horse-related activities. I’m not sure how an ammie can have a third party pay for their horse showing expenses without violating the rules. Maybe I just need to be educated a bit.

On the little league front, I suppose it depends on the team. Some are set up as charitable organizations that accept tax-free donations. In other situations, the construction firm can sponsor the team, pay for uniforms, put the company name on the uniforms and have it qualify as an advertising expense.

I’m genuinely curious.

I wonder if some folks see a horse is owned by an “Inc.” or an “Llc.” and assume everything is a “write off” and there is some sort of tax benefit involved, when that isn’t the case at all.

[Scribbler]

@OneTwoMany

In the US, if “grannie” or “ammie” is collecting a salary of XX dollars, from a family business, the business pays employer taxes (social security, medicare, unemployment, workman’s comp, disability, etc.) and then granny/ammie is responsible for federal, state, their portion of medicare, their portion of social security and other taxes as well. All of which is hardly a “write-off” as some posters have suggested.

If we are talking about a business not owned by the ammie paying for all of the ammie’s horse show expenses, or a portion of the expenses, under USEF rules, ammie’s aren’t allowed to accept remuneration for horse-related activities. I’m not sure how an ammie can have a third party pay for their horse showing expenses without violating the rules. Maybe I just need to be educated a bit.

On the little league front, I suppose it depends on the team. Some are set up as charitable organizations that accept tax-free donations. In other situations, the construction firm can sponsor the team, pay for uniforms, put the company name on the uniforms and have it qualify as an advertising expense.

I’m genuinely curious.

I wonder if some folks see a horse is owned by an “Inc.” or an “Llc.” and assume everything is a “write off” and there is some sort of tax benefit involved, when that isn’t the case at all.

I imagine you could pay granny as a contractor or freelancer and not be responsible for the benefits. Granny would pay taxes but the taxes would be much less.

I’ve certainly worked freelance and all you get is a cheque, no benefit paid. Up to you to declare it on your own taxes and no unemployment deductions or pension or anything else.

[OneTwoMany]

@Scribbler

I imagine you could pay granny as a contractor or freelancer and not be responsible for the benefits. Granny would pay taxes but the taxes would be much less.

I’ve certainly worked freelance and all you get is a cheque, no benefit paid. Up to you to declare it on your own taxes and no unemployment deductions or pension or anything else.

In the US, if granny were paid as a subcontractor or freelancer by a business, she would be responsible for paying all the taxes; 100% of the social security, medicare, federal, state, etc. and in most states she would be required to carry insurance which would protect her if she were hurt on the job. In the US, if a business pays any subcontractor more than $600 in a year, the business is required to issue a 1099 form to the subcontractor and that form is also filed with the IRS. If granny failed to report the money she earned as a subcontractor when she filed her income taxes, the IRS, at the very least, would issue her a letter asking that she pay taxes on the undeclared income and there would be fines and interest associated with that underpayment. The requirement to file a 1099 when a subcontractor is paid more than $600 by a business came into being during the Obama administration.

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/i1099msc.pdf

If an individual pays a subcontractor more than $600 in a year, the individual is not required to file a 1099. Technically the subcontractor is supposed to report that income on their tax filings, but of course we all know that doesn’t always happen.

To return to the original question, I don’t know how an ammie can have a business “sponsor” her horse activities in a way that provides tax advantages and is in keeping with the USEF rules. Doesn’t mean it isn’t possible, I just cannot think of an example.

[fordtraktor]

@Scribbler that really depends on your field, I guess. When my DH gets a sabbatical he definitely writes from wherever we are, and it’s actually professionally enhancing because he can build international contacts/conferences. The paper he wrote when we were in London placed very well – it was his last pre-tenure piece. We spent time in Oxford and Cambridge and Dublin for conferences and it was much less expensive than flying from the US to attend such things.

I think you could write during the week, ride in the evenings, fly to the occasional conference, etc just as well from FLA as you could your home base. It’s much different if you are in the sciences and need a lab to do the work, or some other department that needs physical proximity to your university…that would be very difficult to do during a sabbatical. But there’s a reason there’s an entire website devoted to renting sabbatical homes! Sometimes it is easier to get away to do that work because you are removed from the basic administrative day-to-day more and can focus on the research.

[fordtraktor]

usually the ammy isn’t “paid” from or employed by the business. The business buys the horse, the horse’s expenses are tracked, and if/when the horse is sold, it is income for the business. The business is owned by the ammy and/or family. It’s really quite basic.

If they employ grooms, trainers, etc. themselves, they would have to pay those taxes but if they just get a bill from, say, Heritage Farm, they wouldn’t because all the employees would be Heritage’s.

[MysticOakRanch]

@OneTwoMany

If we are talking about a business not owned by the ammie paying for all of the ammie’s horse show expenses, or a portion of the expenses, under USEF rules, ammie’s aren’t allowed to accept remuneration for horse-related activities. I’m not sure how an ammie can have a third party pay for their horse showing expenses without violating the rules. Maybe I just need to be educated a bit.

On the little league front, I suppose it depends on the team. Some are set up as charitable organizations that accept tax-free donations. In other situations, the construction firm can sponsor the team, pay for uniforms, put the company name on the uniforms and have it qualify as an advertising expense.

I’m genuinely curious.

I wonder if some folks see a horse is owned by an “Inc.” or an “Llc.” and assume everything is a “write off” and there is some sort of tax benefit involved, when that isn’t the case at all.

The USEF rules for AA versus Open are violated ALL THE TIME. I can think of many local riders who are violating those rules. USEF requires anyone who challenges an AA’s status to put up money, so no one ever challenges it. We have plenty of Shamatures out there showing as AAs, who are sponsored, who are teaching lessons, who are working for bigger name trainers.

I also know plenty of people who are writing off their horses, whether it is legit or not. If you have a good tax accountant, and you have enough money, just about everything is deductible.

And yes, if someone sponsors - it is advertising expense. That makes it deductible.

I’m in California, we have a lot of “moneyed” riders. A lot of them have found ways to write off their hobby. Talk to your tax accountant.

[Scribbler]

As far as spreading business income around to family members, I don’t actually know the details of how you did it in Canada. Maybe it has never been possible in the US. But when the Canadian tax loophole was shut down this year the small business community was furious and claimed the sky was falling and they would all go broke now. So however it worked it must have been easy and effective to administer and had a real tax savings.

[Scribbler]

I would also think if a family business could write off the son’s collection of antique cars as an expense, there is no reason you couldn’t write off a horse as an investment!

It wouldn’t even need to go past the IRS or Revenue Canada for approval unless you were audited. You just have your accountant put the expenses and income if any into your books. And that sum is not taxed which if you are in a high income bracket means effectively the cost of the horse is less than half what it would be if you paid in after tax income. At least I assume that is how it would work.

[Libby2563]

@Scribbler

But in terms of actual measurable improvements to horse and rider, how does a winter in Florida compare to schooling every day at home?

I can see the attraction if you have lots of spare time and money. But if you are making real sacrifices in your own life, foregoing retirement savings, working weekends all year around, what is the measurable pay off in improvement?

Speaking for myself only, I am going to Florida for a month this year for two reasons:

1. To compete in CDIs. I missed Devon this year because my GP horse had the hoof abscess from hell, and there aren’t any other CDIs on the East Coast between Devon in the fall and Tryon in the spring, except in Wellington.

2. To get some intensive training. My coach lives a couple hours away so she is only in my area two days a week. I typically have one lesson a week, occasionally two if I’m showing the next weekend and can squeeze it in. Some weeks I don’t have any due to weather (bad roads, extreme cold or heat) or her show schedule. I’ve been on this lesson schedule for years, I’m grateful that I have access to an excellent coach as often as I do, and I make decent progress–but when I do get two lessons in a row it really opens my eyes to how much more productive that is than two lessons a week apart. I think working under her direction for a solid month, I could really make a lot of progress. I’ll also be clinicking with a BNT a few times while I’m down there (and it’s actually cheaper there than when she comes to my area, because of travel costs).

I don’t think I will ever do it again, definitely not any time soon. So I’m going to make the most of this opportunity! I guess I can report back afterwards on whether it was worth it. :winkgrin:

But, I’m not making the huge sacrifices you’re talking about. I’m not touching my retirement savings and I’m not working extra hours. It was pretty easy for me to take the time off and there was no blowback from my supervisors or colleagues (typical response was, “Wow, good for you! Have fun!”). I will miss DH and the dogs though.

ETA: Just read this timely blog post, which may be very close to my own experience (getting a deal on shipping so I can bring my trailer down full of hay, stabling in Loxahatchee, and sleeping in an Airbnb): http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/amateurs-like-us-how-to-win-the-least-fancy-person-contest-in-wellington. After reading that, I kind of want to meet up with the author. She sounds like my kind of person!

[Scribbler]

@Libby2563

Speaking for myself only, I am going to Florida for a month this year for two reasons:

1. To compete in CDIs. I missed Devon this year because my GP horse had the hoof abscess from hell, and there aren’t any other CDIs on the East Coast between Devon in the fall and Tryon in the spring, except in Wellington.

2. To get some intensive training. My coach lives a couple hours away so she is only in my area two days a week. I typically have one lesson a week, occasionally two if I’m showing the next weekend and can squeeze it in. Some weeks I don’t have any due to weather (bad roads, extreme cold or heat) or her show schedule. I’ve been on this lesson schedule for years, I’m grateful that I have access to an excellent coach as often as I do, and I make decent progress–but when I do get two lessons in a row it really opens my eyes to how much more productive that is than two lessons a week apart. I think working under her direction for a solid month, I could really make a lot of progress. I’ll also be clinicking with a BNT a few times while I’m down there (and it’s actually cheaper there than when she comes to my area, because of travel costs).

I don’t think I will ever do it again, definitely not any time soon. So I’m going to make the most of this opportunity! I guess I can report back afterwards on whether it was worth it. :winkgrin:

But, I’m not making the huge sacrifices you’re talking about. I’m not touching my retirement savings and I’m not working extra hours. It was pretty easy for me to take the time off and there was no blowback from my supervisors or colleagues (typical response was, “Wow, good for you! Have fun!”). I will miss DH and the dogs though.

ETA: Just read this timely blog post, which may be very close to my own experience (getting a deal on shipping so I can bring my trailer down full of hay, stabling in Loxahatchee, and sleeping in an Airbnb): http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/amateurs-like-us-how-to-win-the-least-fancy-person-contest-in-wellington. After reading that, I kind of want to meet up with the author. She sounds like my kind of person!

Absolutely if you are riding at that level and can afford the time and money it sounds like a blast! And very useful! And warm!

[Scribbler]

@fordtraktor

@Scribbler that really depends on your field, I guess. When my DH gets a sabbatical he definitely writes from wherever we are, and it’s actually professionally enhancing because he can build international contacts/conferences. The paper he wrote when we were in London placed very well – it was his last pre-tenure piece. We spent time in Oxford and Cambridge and Dublin for conferences and it was much less expensive than flying from the US to attend such things.

I think you could write during the week, ride in the evenings, fly to the occasional conference, etc just as well from FLA as you could your home base. It’s much different if you are in the sciences and need a lab to do the work, or some other department that needs physical proximity to your university…that would be very difficult to do during a sabbatical. But there’s a reason there’s an entire website devoted to renting sabbatical homes! Sometimes it is easier to get away to do that work because you are removed from the basic administrative day-to-day more and can focus on the research.

This is all true.

And yes if your research requires going to archives then a sabbatical away is a great idea.

But I know myself. If I was away at horsey boot camp for three months, living out of a gooseneck or cheap motel, taking a lesson every day and competing multiple shows, there is no way I would also be doing scholarly work. I would be maxing out the very costly horse experience. Watching my trainer ride. Going to see big names compete. Etc.