How do you break small ponies?

[Willesdon]

Speaking up in defence of Welsh ponies everywhere. Like all mountain and moorland breeds, they have both brains and an acute sense of self-preservation. If their human is fair and consistent, the pony will come to trust their human and will work in partnership and with evident pleasure. They really resent being bossed and they appreciate being asked rather than told. Often they work things out for themselves.

But too many ponies are spoiled by inconsistent training and handling - “ahh, isn’t it cute” - and are soured by too many small kids bouncing around, yanking on their mouth and using a stick excessively because small legs aren’t strong enough and being roughly handled by adults because they are deemed to be “little sh!ts”.

Don’t be deceived by their small stature. They require exactly the same training as any other horse. Ground manners are vital as small children don’t usually apply them. Adults can certainly retrain for those. A small adult can ride them as they are strong enough, even a little 13.2, but long reining is more traditional. They are excellent to drive. IME most improve in temperament if a) they have an interesting job to do and b) they like and trust their human.

[StormyDay]

@red_mares

We got another pony in the barn - a small Welsh pony mare. Surprise, not quite as advertised - not as big and not as beginner safe. The couple other ponies we’ve got are bigger, so a small adult can ride them. They’ve also got better dispositions, this mare is a little bitch! Stereo typical evil pony mare.

I’m in a saddlebred barn, so we don’t get many small ponies. If we do, they are generally Hackneys and they’re broke to drive. How do you hunter peeps turn out the bazillions of (more or less) safe gray ponies? Do you just pair them up with the meanest kid you’ve got in the barn?

We’re looking at (literally) long-lining the crap out of this mare.

You just stick the smallest adult you have on it. The adult will likely be over the weight the pony should have for long term riding, but for the initial training time it’s ok. Just keep the rides short (like 20ish minutes if possible)
One of my trainers growing up was at least 5’11 and would train the 11h ponies before the lesson students could get on. I swear on some of those horses her knees were dragging.

[KBC]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

Q: How do you break small ponies?
A: You don’t. They break you.

Note: I actually love small ponies and horses, and despite the stereotype, I have been fortunate to know mostly sweet ones, or ones that had an attitude only within limits.

I just came to say the very sane thing…

And would also add the same note, grew up in the UK where we all started on ponies, and there were 100’s of good ones, for every little devil. They all taught us something though.

[red_mares]

So we almost had this mare gone…except that she pitched such a fit in the trailer this morning, that they unloaded her and wanted their money back. #$%^&* Next time, more ace; A LOT more ace.

There have been a couple people on her. She wasn’t terrible. After not leaving this morning, she got long lined this afternoon. The worst part was putting leather on her. Oh my God. Took 2 of us to get a bridle on her. Since she’s sat in a field for years, her work ethic isn’t great (as expected). To her credit, she didn’t pitch a fit when ‘GO’ was reinforced with a whip. Newsflash pony, when I say ‘trot’, I mean NOW.

[Willesdon]

Sounds like she has been seriously mishandled in her past because behaviour like that is too often learned in self defence. Two adults looming over her now to bridle her sounds like impatient, incompetent, teeth thumping attempts by others. Treat her like any other horse and allow her to learn about you. Consider: would you have the same attitude if the animal was 10 inches taller?

One very small pony (10.2) I know was a little sh!t to children because noisy small kids climbing all over her, yanking and pulling her around, had been her previous life but put her in harness and she was magic, brimming with excitement and pleasure as we rolled along at a spanking trot, her ears fixed forward like arrows. She would put herself between the shafts.

[endlessclimb]

Well two people muscling a pony into a bridle sounds a whole lot like abuse to me. If this is how you treat animals, I suggest you not get another one and stick to dirtbikes next time.

This is the risk taken for sales - some will be easy peasy, some will take more time. This type of treatment is how she became a “little bitch”, as you so kindly put it.

If you wouldn’t do it to a horse, don’t do it to a pony. And if you would also do it to a horse, see my comment about dirtbikes.

[skydy]

@red_mares

So we almost had this mare gone…except that she pitched such a fit in the trailer this morning, that they unloaded her and wanted their money back. #$%^& Next time, more ace; A LOT more ace.*

This is a very poor reflection on sellers of horses and ponies everywhere. IMHO, you are doing your business no favors by posting here.

[vxf111]

If she’s such a PITA for you to deal with, maybe it makes sense for someone else to deal with her? Someone who wants the challenge and won’t be so irritated by it?

[fivestrideline]

I have a feeling this pony doesn’t know anything, only that people are going to physically force her to do things that are both hard and scary. And they’re going to yell, smack her around, and then twitch and drug her when she understandably goes on the defensive.

OP, you don’t like this pony. That’s fine. Move her on, with honest disclosure, because you are just making it worse.

People do tend to create ponies (and donkeys) with Small Dog Syndrome - even people with perfectly acceptable management of their larger equines. However the attitude and blatant disregard for this pony is very telling for how OP treats their animals and runs their business. I’d be staying far, far away.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

Yes, as someone who likes both, I’ve seen the prejudice firsthand. Some ponies and dogs do have an attitude because they’ve never been properly trained, but some people get weirdly triggered by them to the point of violence. I’ll never forget how my docile, on-leash small dog was nearly killed in an attack by large off-leash large dogs how some people blamed by dog, because, well, you know, it’s always assumed small dogs are yappy monsters.

OP, you don’t like the pony, and it sounds like you’re in a barn that mainly deals with saddleseat driving horses. Use your connections in another discipline to move her on to someone looking for a project. She’s not going to get any better in her current environment.

[2DogsFarm]

@red_mares

Next time, more ace; A LOT more ace.

Uh… NO.
Unless you were joking just now and had informed the buyer she was drugged.

[Trekkie]

Lots of drugs, mean riders, man handling and overworking the $&!t out of anything is, well, yup a good way to break any living thing. You, OP, have answered your own question.

[Salty]

Yikes.

I looked at this because I love ponies and have started lots of small ponies because I’m small. I thought I’d learn something.

Please move her on to someone who will be sympathetic to her and appreciate her. I feel so sorry for this pony.

[173north]

@fivestrideline

I have a feeling this pony doesn’t know anything, only that people are going to physically force her to do things that are both hard and scary. And they’re going to yell, smack her around, and then twitch and drug her when she understandably goes on the defensive.

Definitely. These ponies end up like this because no one trains them to lead politely, then they get shanked for not behaving. No one teaches them to be good about their feet, then the farrier boots them in the belly and at the next appointment, they twitch them. They aren’t taught whoa on the lunge, then a kid rips their teeth off when they don’t slow down under saddle. A couple years of that and you end up with the pony OP has. I’d be pissed too if someone came to my house every day, forced me to submit to random tasks that were never explained to me, and then hit me while I was trying to figure out what was being asked of me.

Last year I paid a dollar for a pony - super spooky, zero manners, reared in hand, bolted under saddle, needed two people to shove him into the wash rack and hold him in there… I could go on. I doubt he had ever been taken out of his stall and not been completely overwhelmed and scared, so he learned how to defend himself. Long story short, sold him within a year as a kid’s pony and the family adores him.

These ponies have to figure out first that people won’t scare or hurt them. Then they have to learn to emotionally regulate so they stop exploding whenever they feel a little pressure or uncertainty - because if their first reaction to pressure or new stimulus is panic, they are incapable of learning. THEN you have to teach them to lead and tie and bridle and stand for the vet and all of that.

OP, I’d suggest you stop trying to train her or do anything with her barring very basic care. If even that’s going to cause an argument, don’t bother, a little thrush is not a big deal in the grand scheme of things. Sit in her stall for a while every day, feed her treats, start helping her see people aren’t going to hurt her. If you can’t lower her overall stress & fear levels she’s just going to keep blowing through the ace, because right now she’s probably halfway there by the time you get her halter on. (I am assuming you are being transparent that she needs ace to load.)

[StormyDay]

@red_mares

So we almost had this mare gone…except that she pitched such a fit in the trailer this morning, that they unloaded her and wanted their money back. #$%^&* Next time, more ace; A LOT more ace.

There have been a couple people on her. She wasn’t terrible. After not leaving this morning, she got long lined this afternoon. The worst part was putting leather on her. Oh my God. Took 2 of us to get a bridle on her. Since she’s sat in a field for years, her work ethic isn’t great (as expected). To her credit, she didn’t pitch a fit when ‘GO’ was reinforced with a whip. Newsflash pony, when I say ‘trot’, I mean NOW.

Where are you at OP. I’ll come get the pony. No ace needed.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

I’ve ridden quite the array of ponies and sold a few in my life.

My theory of “smalls”: You don’t break them. They break you.

They have a lot of brain in this small bodies and the mean little Napoleons will put forth all their best effort to outwit the toughest adult or meanest kid.

Good luck. Ponies tend to be much more willing to play the game once they’re over 10… and keep in mind, too, that some are reallllly wide and that saddle fitting can play a part in their wretched behavior bc most adults don’t have extra-wide saddles and just plop what they have on their flat, wide backs, which absolutely would pinch. If you can get a small, flat pancake saddle, that might be a test of whether you’re dealing with just a pint-size meanie… or a pony screaming in discomfort.

Ugh… just read the rest of this thread. It’s not just a training issue, it sounds like there’s a complete disconnect here and not a fit. Find one of the people on here willing to take her… as it’s doing both you and the pony no benefit to continue down this path. Someone is going to get hurt… jury’s out if it’s going to be equine or human, but let’s not wait to find out.

[Tha_Ridge]

@red_mares

Newsflash pony, when I say ‘trot’, I mean NOW.

Oof. Now, I don’t train ponies (at least not in about two decades), but I do a lot of young horses and retired racehorses… If they don’t do something “now,” they quite simply don’t understand it.

This weekend, my latest OTTB simply couldn’t understand what my left leg meant as we trotted right on a 15-meter circle. Now, it would’ve been so easy to accuse him of having a bad work ethic or being a naughty boy… But, instead, I could see that he was getting frazzled because he didn’t know what was being asked in that scenario. So we halted, released the pressure, got some pats, and then walked until we got a connection from the inside leg to the outside rein. Then, once he understood that assignment, we asked for the trot again and his little lightbulb came on. For ponies, it’s this exercise x100, since they, unfortunately for them, can get manhandled in a way that you can’t do with an 1,100-pound horse, which ultimately adds to their frustration.

[DMK]

Good money always bets on the pony to win (aka human loses unless they know how to create a partnership not a zero sum competition)

[173north]

@StormyDay

Where are you at OP. I’ll come get the pony. No ace needed.

I will send gas/hay money.

And for real, I will take this pony if someone can get it to CA.

[red_mares]

I was going to let this go.

The pony has not been abused, at least not by us. She walked calmly on to the trailer. She then proceeded to try and climb out of it. No one did anything to provoke this, plenty was done to calm her down. She had been aced only for the trailer ride, as we knew she isn’t great on a trailer. I’m not sure why the horror and pearl clutching over ace for an unsettled traveler. It’s not like she was drugged for the show ring or falsely advertised. The potential buyer knew this before coming to pick up the pony.

There was every intent of moving this pony on. She did not cooperate. Everyone involved decided she was not going and the money that had changed hands, went back into the original pocket.

Two of us bridled her because, much like a 17h horse that has learned to evade bridling by throwing it’s head in the air, this pony dives her head to the ground so it can’t be reached. This was not the first time she’s done it, I’m sure. Since there were 2 people there, instead of fighting with her for 30 minutes, one held her halter, while the other put the bridle on, easy peasy (but still a bit of a hassle, it’s not something we do with the rest of the barn)

I long lined her. She wasn’t bad. She guides fairly well but the go button isn’t great. We worked on Whoa and go. She was not stressed or sweated when we were done. She wasn’t as dumb as I expected.

If you guys want to point your self righteousness in the right direction, try the previous owners who coddled this pony to the point that she doesn’t think she has to do what a person asks and had her so fat she foundered. We are doing what we can to fix the issues from the foundering. She has not been asked to do a whole lot and will likely get shoes and pads the next time the blacksmith comes. It would have been done last time, but he (blacksmith) wanted to see how she handled being bare foot after getting her long toes cut back. I think part of her ‘go’ issues are ouch issues and since I’m such a horrible, mean person, I offered up the STP that my pony gets to hopefully make her more comfortable.

over & out