How Do You Evaluate an Endurance Prospect?

[prudence]

To take this in a slightly different direction - Witezarif was one of the top endurance horses of all time, with three Tevis wins and numerous other top placings. Here is a description that was posted by someone on ridecamp that I found very interesting:

[I]"I was involved in bringing Dr. Deb Bennett to a meeting and clinic at the local Arabian Horse Club in Bishop, Cal. I picked her up in Reno and she said that there would be a two hour wait as her Demo bones had ended up on another plane. Took her out for tacos and then asked her to look at a gelding that I was interested in buying south of Reno.

Got to the pasture and had received the O.K. to catch the horse and show him to her. I trotted him out and she immediately said that I should buy the horse now as he was worth a king’s ransom. I then showed her the record of the horse that Donna Fitzgerald had campaigned, his name was Witezarif and he had been retired for at least a year. Dr. Bennett then took multiple pictures of him and stated that she had never seen a horse that moved with such ease."[/I]

I was privileged to get to ride him once - he was used in a dude string at south Lake Tahoe while not competing. Look at the pictures and his pedigree. Even in the stills below you can see how he moves. So important!

http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/witezarif

http://www.arabianbreeders.net/Forums/Pictures-t1117.html&st=10

(and for a real kick, scroll down to post #17 on the arabianbreeders.net page)

[Kyzteke]

@rainechyldes;4511157

I personally tend to look for a very strong dominate temperament in a young horse. At this age, it usually coincides with hot/flightly or obnoxiously ill mannered (not always) But in my experience quite often. and it does take time to channel all that into the right direction.

Very interesting you should say this.

I have a friend who rides a horse she got as a 2 yr. old. She said he was such a PITA she spent over 6 months on ground work before she ever even THOUGHT about getting on him. And she said he can still be a pain – tosses his head (once he tossed his hackmore off during a ride!), either falling in love or hating the horses he rides with, wanting to go, etc.

She said you really have to RIDE him every step. But he always knows EXACTLY where he is putting each foot and he loves his job. I think he’s only been pulled once in the last 2 years, and this year she has done over 1800 miles on him, including at least 4 - 5 XP rides where he did 50 miles a day for 5 days straight.

Looks like she is going to win the National High Mileage Award for 2009 – and I think she’s ridden almost every single mile on him.

Pretty impressive for a PITA :lol:

[wendybird]

rmh_rider - I can’t agree with you about ewe necks my wee speed machine was the ugliest little horse when I got her and I was embarrassed to take her out (I wish I knew how to put a photo up here). The endurance people told me not to worry, just keep working her quietly and she would muscle up and fill out in a couple of years. And she did, and is quite a beauty now 4 1/2 years later. (Of course I may be just the teeniest bit biased:) )

[Kyzteke]

@rmh_rider;4507891

3. Low hocks, no post legs
4. No Polish lines, Russian are doing well, and so are Egyptian and Crabbet

Polish lines, or too high of a concentration up close

High hocks

Curious as to why you don’t like the Polish lines. You do realize there are tons of very successful endurance horses out there that are Polish?

And why the bias against higher hocks (meaning longer cannon bones, I guess)? I can understand that preference for a horse that has to turn alot, like a reining or cutting horse, but why for an endurance horse, who is many going straight?

Just wondering…

[Kyzteke]

@wendybird;4512010

(I wish I knew how to put a photo up here). )

Unless you have a Premium account, you have to put the photo on a photo website, like Flicker or Webshots or something, then you post the link to that here.

I’d LOVE to see “Before” and “After” shots of your little horse.

[rmh_rider]

Low set hocks will allow the horse to use it’s hind end better. High hocks are considered weak. To ultimately drive off the hocks, and use their butts and not pull themselves with their front end, low set hocks are preferably. High hocked horses tend to go lame or have more trouble with their hind end with regards to lameness. Endurance horses have to really push and drive off the hind end. A good butt, big butt is a good thing. Means there is power back there to drive the horse. You want a good angle to the hocks also. Post legged horses are not a good thing. Post legged horses have straight hind legs. Like a post. So shorter cannons on the hocks.

I am not a polish fan. Not getting to into too many details, but I have ridden, owned, trained enough polish, and pure polish horses to not like them. I can PM you if you want some details. Hot and dishonest is how I see those lines.

I think a harder working tough sound for a long time friendly very people oriented arab will fall in the egyptian, crabbet, russian, spanish lines. Performance, not halter. Racing lines on the polish - watch out. You can only put up with so much.

There are exceptions to every rule, and every horse is an individual.

[Nike13]

Having owned a Polish mare for 10 yrs, I had to laugh at the “hot and dishonest” comment. While I absolutely loved her, and love Polish lines, that described her to a tee on many days. It’s all a matter of what “holes” you can put up with.
I am new to endurance and have completed my first 3 LD’s on my QH this year. He is halter bred top and bottom, but looks NOTHING like his papers say he should. He is tall, 15.3, narrow with a deep heart girth, good strong feet, (only wears front shoes), and short cannons. I bought him to run barrels on/ sell him as a hunter if that didn’t work out, and here we are doing endurance. He is long and lean and has a well-laid back shoulder and a ground covering trot. I’m curious about the bloodlines of other QH’s doing endurance. Anyone know of any that are competing successfully?

[rmh_rider]

It is JMO.

I have owned/trained more than one polish horse over the years. I have found them inconsistent in their temperments.

Happy to hear you like(d) your Polish mare.

So what are her lines?

I have the pure polish book by Neil Wood. I would be curious of her lines.

You must be doing something very right and good to complete with a QH! I mean that in a good way, not being nasty. Some can’t do that on an arab.

Many years ago, I think there was the cover photo on the Endurance News of a man who completed a really hot/humid ride in the SE (my region) and on a huge 18H draft horse. He may have also been a novice. Amazing!

My 15.3 western full bodied QH would never make it on a LD. I do ride english but he had a huge western body. I had him 7 years for a pleasure horse, raised him from a weanling, and WOW did he grow bigger than his parents. He had too much muscle mass for hot rides. Not a good radiator body iow. There are many QH’s in endurance. If you find the right one, they do well. You have to in the first place find the right individual of any breed. Looks like you have the right individual.

My shoer competes locally in polo. And on a race bred QH. She is not the bulky type.

[Nike13]

Yes, he keeps surprising me, but he’s been top 10 at all three rides so far. He definitely has a good “radiator” body, not chunky or muscle bound at all. I always made fun of his chest and said both legs came out of the same hole, until some very nice lady said he had and “endurance chest”.lol. Who knew?He’s Sierra Te on bottom, who is known for throwing all-around horses, just not quite this all-around.

[matryoshka]

I think it is like any other sport where you develop an eye for an untried horse with good potential over the years.

If you are starting out and want to place in the top 10 consistently, then you’d be better off buying a proven horse and be willing to spend a bit of money on him. That way you can develop your eye for good performance qualities while you are enjoying successful competition.

For me, I like the challenge of discovering and training a good horse. My difficulty is that horses come to me with problems, and I try to match them to a sport for which they are suited. Only one horse in my field is one that I chose (for dressage, not distance). Every other horse was somebody else’s problem who found their way to me. Luckily, I’ve got eclectic tastes.

A horse that might be a good distance horse finally came my way. She’s a purebred Arabian, possibly Crabbet lines–won’t know unless I can secure her papers. Here’s what I like about her:[LIST=1]

Well balanced conformation: not downhill, not uphill, pretty much can be divided into thirds. Her conformation was scary when she first came to me, and I had no idea she'd mature so nicely. I had to give her some time to mature before she was balanced enough to carry a rider easily (she was a late 3-yo but looked like a long yearling when she arrived).

Decent legs. Is slightly turned in below the fetlock on one front, but I don't know yet whether this will cause any problems. It is not easy to spot.

She floats. It's not horse-show movement, but the type where she doesn't spend too much time in the air nor too much on the ground. Light, easy stride, doesn't hit hard. It is not hard to keep her off her forehand when ridden.

Started out very reactive, but has gotten better over time with trail experience. That she [I]can[/I] improve is important. Yes, I want to shoot her about every other ride. She's probably more sane than I am.

Cools down rapidly.

Neither too hard nor too easy a keeper.[/LIST]So far I have no idea whether she'll like endurance, but I think she'll be sound for it. She will be easy to condition. She may drive me nuts on competition day. Still don't know whether we are a match for temperament. I'm not concerned about placing in the top 10. If this were important to me, I'd buy from somebody who is known for training and selling such horses. That would be less of an investment than feeding and training a "prospect" who may disappoint on competition day.

[Gestalt]

[QUOTE=matryoshka;4524166]
If this were important to me, I’d buy from somebody who is known for training and selling such horses. That would be less of an investment than feeding and training a “prospect” who may disappoint on competition day.[/QUOTE]

This is the statement of the year. It absolutely slays me when people talk about the “deal” they bought. Then they proceed to invest thousands in training. I myself have a “free” gelding that I took to a trainer for 90 days. Now $1800.00 later he’s not so free. :lol:

[system]

I’ve only ridden 25s because I could never get myself in shape enough to step up to the 50. That’s on my bucket list. The mare I ride is a purebred Arabian 15.1 hands with a huge long trot. Besides all the other recommendations I would like to add:
*bold enough to lead and also be willing to follow
*able to ride comfortably alone with no other horses in sight
*have really good ground manners since you will be standing in line for the vet check, standing around the trough to get water, and having the vet do the actual check
*The horse has to be a good drinker. The first time I took my horse on a ride we all stopped and she bent down and drank out of a puddle on the ground. Now I don’t support drinking from a water puddle but it did prove to me that she would drink out on the trail from the local ponds when she was ready
*Bold, bold, bold, you never know what type of obstacles you will encounter on a trail. Riding a chicken can get you hurt

[wendybird]

Yes I agree that boldness is invaluable, but it can be learnt as I’ve found with my gelding now that he’s realised he enjoys endurance. He’s not too good with water crossing yet, but that will come. Likewise the confidence in you to go out alone. Everything else is just experience.
My mare in her 4th season is really confident, knows the drill, leads the less brave ones - no water phobia for her!

As for being in shape - the best way is to ‘just do it’ - a couple of slow 50’s and you will be fine and ready for more!

[keana]

With Peruvian’s it not just their legs but their backs… they take the shock of movement in their backs a lot of times.