Dutch – glad you said this, because I was always taught the trot is the gait you should be least concerned with since it is the gait that can be modified the most.
BITS, take a look at Dutch’s video, and then at a video of the same horse as an adult.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEw9cLfE-iM&feature=related
Lovely, lovely mare Dutch! I think her movement is extraordinary! Do you mind tell us (or PMing me;)) how she scored in gaits?
I can’t find her score sheet right now, but overall, her movement was 75, with an 80 for her trot. Her canter was a bit tense and needed to be more uphill. If I can find the scores, I’ll post them. Typical of Ferros, the canter improves under saddle, with the rider on board to help them round more. This mare has quite a vertical neck, so her tendency is to hollow her back when tense, especially when free moving. Her walk is very good.
BITS, take a look at Dutch’s video, and then at a video of the same horse as an adult.
They look different. lol That’s what makes it hard.
And what I’m saying is that, within a certain conformational framework, gaits are liable to change quite abit from foalhood to under saddle work.
Again, I have to note that many great horses (like Toto most recently) did not show this extravagant movement as very young horses.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5670198]
And what I’m saying is that, within a certain conformational framework, gaits are liable to change quite abit from foalhood to under saddle work.
Again, I have to note that many great horses (like Toto most recently) did not show this extravagant movement as very young horses.[/QUOTE]
Oh I know it! And that’s why I’m asking the question. What one (or two) clues were there that said, this is going to be a great mover as an adult?
It it that split second push off going from walk to trot? Is it the amount of reach of the hind leg at a canter when they’re 4 inches higher behind? lol Or ??? Because when they’re all trotting around looking pretty they all look very similiar.
I’ll Play
Here’s some good comparison video. I’m EXTREMELY happy with how this colt has turned out…he’s by Escudo II.
But I think his movement was more “extravagant” when he was younger…now I think he looks more huntery. We’ll see what happens in his 3 year old year…
First days of life:
http://www.vimeo.com/24297329
First freejump as a 2.5 year old:
http://www.vimeo.com/20313331
What do you think of this trot? She was around 3 weeks when the pic was taken. I want to get video of her, but if I’m around she’s right there with me begging for attention.
Hey Cassy’s Mom - Nice boy you have, and still lovely movement at 2 1/2. Free and easy.
Well, that flashy trot – what did Bayhawk call it? The greedy money trot?:lol: THAT trot will sell foals. But my 2011 filly foal (Schroeder/Rubino Bellisamo/Bolero), has yet to trot more than afew steps. She is almost 6 wks old. But I still think she will be an impressive dressage horse.
Why?
Because her canter impresses the heck o/o me – it’s got lots of jump, she reaches deep underneath herself, and moves naturally in collection. Plus she is VERY handy in quick turns (again, shows me she can work off her hindquarters nicely) and shows an ability to “sit” that I haven’t seen in most of my foals.
I put her and her dam in the round pen to eat some stray grass and there was a horse blanket over the panels. She wanted to see over it, so she actually did this levade-sort of “sit” on her hocks to lift her up.
If I was going to evaluate her ability for upper level dressage (and that is the sport she is bred for), assuming her brain was good and she stays sound, I would use this critera more than just a fancy trot.
Am I wrong?
This has kind of turned into a fancy trot thread but that’s not what I intended.
My filly sometimes has a beautiful walk, and then other times it is lateral, very lateral. When she’s going at a normal speed for her, its nice. When she’s walking (when should be trotting) trying to keep up with her mom at a much faster speed it goes lateral.
Trot, haven’t seen much yet but that varies as well. Sometimes it’s very engaged, sometimes its more joggy. Which ever it is, it always has a lot of suspension and spring.
Canter so far looks engaged at all times and I’m amazed at how she can go from full speed to stopped without looking like she did anything to stop.
In her case her movement is either very nice or not. lol Granted she’s only 5 1/2 weeks but…it just seems after all the foals out there, someone would have “a rule book” on how to evaluate foals. Someone should put together a video showing foals and then then finished product on both good and bad horses. I’d buy. 
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;5670640]
Because her canter impresses the heck o/o me – it’s got lots of jump, she reaches deep underneath herself, and moves naturally in collection. Plus she is VERY handy in quick turns (again, shows me she can work off her hindquarters nicely) and shows an ability to “sit” that I haven’t seen in most of my foals.
I put her and her dam in the round pen to eat some stray grass and there was a horse blanket over the panels. She wanted to see over it, so she actually did this levade-sort of “sit” on her hocks to lift her up.
If I was going to evaluate her ability for upper level dressage (and that is the sport she is bred for), assuming her brain was good and she stays sound, I would use this critera more than just a fancy trot.
Am I wrong?[/QUOTE]
Right on! It is always nice to have the flashy trot as icing on the cake, but the trot can be improved. The walk, canter, and the ability to “sit” (for collection) are much more important for upper level prospects, IMO.
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you there… You can definitely get a very good idea of what you have by looking at a foal and its gaits. How do you think the judges declare some colts stallion prospects?
In the case of Dutch, her youngster was the No. 1 KWPN-NA foal in the country, and looking at her as a young adult, the qualities are all still there. That doesn’t mean that you can’t “tweak” things once they’re under saddle, but generally what you see is what you get as far as movement is concerned.
Just my opinion…
The inspectors are probably wrong half the time too.
[QUOTE=grayarabpony;5670721]
Agree with jdeboer and Downyonder. You can’t look at a snippet of video in a snapshot of a foal’s life and make a definitive opinion of it.
If he did in fact get his dad’s engine he’ll have a good one. You can find pictures of Totilas with trailing hind legs, especially at the extensions and passage, but that’s riding not him. Just look at his piaffe and his other work.
The inspectors are probably wrong half the time too.[/QUOTE]
I basically agree that, when it comes to a foals overall way of going, what you see it what you get. I’ve found that the level of suspension, knee action, and rhythm tend to be “there” already. However, it is certainly true that, if a foal is in a “butt high” growth spurt, it can make things look awkward. With the foal keurings, the judges have to judge what they see in front of them on that day. Sometimes foals decide to shoot up two inches behind the week of their keuring!
What I’m trying to say , Siegi B. , Alexandra is correct. They either are born with the correct movement as a foal or they’re not , it’s simple as that.
It has nothing to do with them being butt high or having long legs or anything else. Their movement will only improve after these growth phases level out. These stated characteristics are being confused with balance and not proper movement.
A foal that isn’t born with good movement will never have good movement. It may improve slightly , but it will never be good.
I can’t recall ever being fooled by a foal with incorrect movement in the beginning. They are what they are. I’ve been fooled by type several times but that’s another discussion.
I absolutely agree with this and with HAF’s articulate reply.
Here’s video of my filly when she showed us her gaits at three weeks. This was when I knew what I had. Although there’s no canter here, her canter as a foal was always balanced. She changed leads cleanly and effortlessly, and still does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8NXT6-9Iq4&NR=1
Now, I am definitely a hindleg kind of gal. I focus on its quickness and reach more than the front end. BUT…there’s no single indicator of adult movement, IMHO. Rather, it’s a combination of things and you have to look at the whole picture.
You have to study lots of foals and go to lots of inspections, farms, and shows. See as many as you can at 3 days, 3 weeks, and 3 months. Alexandra’s suggestion about observing with a friend is wonderful advice, since no two breeders seem to ever gravitate to the same things.
Sorry I don’t have “adult” footage of the above filly. There are some still photos on her webpage:
http://www.runningwaterwbs.com/Raleska.html
I hope to get footage at her inspection in August, so you’ll have take my word for it that the quick hindleg, lovely balance, and swing through her body are still there. Or you can take the judges’ word for it! She’s been GAIG Region 8 Filly Champion two years in a row.
I don’t have near the experience most of you have, but I seem to have a good eye. While the trot is nice, I don’t look at the front end. I look at the hind end. With correct riding, a horse that can sit and push off the hind end will be able to elevate in front and use it more. One of my big things is not just the sitting behind, but the separation of the hind legs in the trot and canter. A horse that can do that can really carry and sit. I decided to look at my current horse who was completely all wrong for me because of a still picture with massive separation of the hind legs.
The first horse I bred I got to GP. I remember thinking all kinds of bad thoughts as she was growing and didn’t have that fancy trot and did OK, but not great evaluated as a two year old. As a competition horse, people’s jaws would drop watching her movement.
I’m hoping I still have the touch. I have a one and three year old that refuse to stay even, and are perpetually butt high. They don’t always have a fancy trot, but I love the use of the hind end and the regularity of gaits.
Is it easier to tell by moving video or still pictures?
Here’s a canter stride of my 5 week old. Can you tell anything or is moving video better?
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad198/HorseFeathersFarm/21bf45fa.png
[QUOTE=jdeboer01;5670779]
With the foal keurings, the judges have to judge what they see in front of them on that day. Sometimes foals decide to shoot up two inches behind the week of their keuring![/QUOTE]
Yes, which would make deciding whether or not a foal would make a good stallion prospect even harder, since they’re changing so much! Especially in regard to balance front to back. 
Unfortunately the only way to learn to evaluate foals is to see tons of them. And if you are not experienced with evaluating foal movement, you need to have a mentor that is willing to share their knowledge.
Firstly I want to see harmony, a foal that is well put together and well balanced. Then, I look at the hind leg. I want to see a foal that shifts weight to the hind end, and sits when it strikes off into trot or canter. Also want to see a natural tendency to carry itself uphill and an elasticity throughout the body. I have purchased most of my brood mares as foals. They had the bloodlines I sought and the movement I desired. I have yet to be disappointed in the end product. And really good foals move well even when in funky stages.
The good inspectors are very good at their jobs. I would not discount their knowledge. I presented a four week old filly in July 2008 that the inspectors really liked. One of the inspectors was a regular on the foal Inspections in Germany, and being it was July, had seen quite a few foals. He said the filly I had was one of the best he had seen that year. And guess what, he was right. As a three year old she was tested under saddle in Germany and was in the top five of 400 mares presented. So yes the really good people can look at foals and give a decent prediction of where they might go.
Also have to agree price at and Auction does always reflect the quality of a foal.
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