How Do You Fix Spooky

[Equkelly]

@StormyDay

I don’t think you actually read what I wrote.
you don’t just stick them together and hope for the best. You start by walking back and fourth and lots of encouragement. You don’t progress to standing with the horse near the donkeys fence if the horse is still a fire breathing dragon while walking around. that isn’t helpful.
What I suggested and what you suggested aren’t very different at all.
But I still believe that the best way to make sure the horse gets over the donkey fear is to eventually make friends with the donkey. That is done by putting them next to each other. But you don’t just do that immediately and hope everything goes well.

Also, from OP’s comments, horse is walking by and ignoring donkey. It just seems to be an issue when he’s being worked with. So no, I don’t think putting them next to each other for a while is going to cause any sort of crisis

I did read what you wrote, I still don’t agree with it. The key difference between your thinking and mine is that you believe you should back off “when he calms down” and I believe you should back off before he gets worked up. I believe you should listen to what your horse is telling you and acknowledge their anxieties, not ignore them and flood them. And I’m sorry any time you’re messing with your horse’s living arrangements to fix a training issue, it’s just lazy and a shortcut IMO. I also don’t think it’s practical because if you’re at a horse show and your horse starts spooking at a mini in the lead line class what are you going to do? Or if they see a deer on a trail ride? Desensitizing/ flooding is a bandaid. It’s much better to teach your horse to relax and to trust you so that it doesn’t matter what the you encounter, they’ll be able to bring themselves down from that anxiety on their own. It’s impossible to expose them everything.

I actually think “flooding” can create “selective spookiness” too so it’s funny OP brought that up. Let’s say your horse is spooking at a trashcan at the far end of the arena. Traditional old school training would be to MAKE your horse go to that scary end of the arena and work them at that end until they calm down and then MAKE them touch the trash can. Just work work work until the horse doesn’t care about the trash can anymore. Then, the rider relaxes and lets them walk and they can go back to the other end of the arena and relax. You may have gotten your horse to stop reacting to the trash can today but next time your horse is spooking at a donkey let’s say, your horse is now twice as worried about that donkey because not only is the donkey scary but he knows he’s going to have to work around that donkey until he shuts down again and he knows you’re going to MAKE him go up to it when he really doesn’t want to.

[Tigers_in_Texas]

I don’t have a magic cure, but I can commiserate…

My trainer has a small spotted donkey as one of her horse’s companions. I haul my mare there for lessons every 1-2 weeks. The first time her horses were on day turnout last winter, and my mare saw that donkey, she would not do anything but stare at it and snort. I had to go in the barn to tack up where she couldn’t see it, because I could not tie her to the trailer near the donkey. Luckily it is not within eyesight of the riding ring or field! She gradually got more and more used to the donkey, until I could hose her off next to its field. Then one day the donkey was wearing fly boots and a fly mask, and when it started walking towards us all hell broke loose…

Fun fact: horses can canter backwards :lol:

[GoodTimes]

It sounds like selective spookiness to me too.
I’m sure he is nervous of the donkey, but it also sounds like he’s had lots of time to get used to said donkey without anything bad ever happening.

I’ve found the best way to address spookiness, especially undersaddle is to to make them work in an area away from the spooky object. Keep their feet moving, it doesn’t have to be pretty, circles and figure 8’s, etc. Then let them chill in an area closer to the spooky object. If they spook or get upset go back to working further away from the scary object.
Eventually they learn that it’s hard work and the scary thing isn’t really so scary. Apply pressure away from the scary thing, reduce pressure near the scary thing. Don’t obsess over working them close to the scary thing.

Obviously this is more difficult since the scary object is actually a moving donkey.

Now if you noticed more spookiness in general lately than it may be worth considering ulcers.

[StormyDay]

@Equkelly

I did read what you wrote, I still don’t agree with it. The key difference between your thinking and mine is that you believe you should back off “when he calms down” and I believe you should back off before he gets worked up. I believe you should listen to what your horse is telling you and acknowledge their anxieties, not ignore them and flood them. And I’m sorry any time you’re messing with your horse’s living arrangements to fix a training issue, it’s just lazy and a shortcut IMO. I also don’t think it’s practical because if you’re at a horse show and your horse starts spooking at a mini in the lead line class what are you going to do? Or if they see a deer on a trail ride? Desensitizing/ flooding is a bandaid. It’s much better to teach your horse to relax and to trust you so that it doesn’t matter what the you encounter, they’ll be able to bring themselves down from that anxiety on their own. It’s impossible to expose them everything.

I actually think “flooding” can create “selective spookiness” too so it’s funny OP brought that up. Let’s say your horse is spooking at a trashcan at the far end of the arena. Traditional old school training would be to MAKE your horse go to that scary end of the arena and work them at that end until they calm down and then MAKE them touch the trash can. Just work work work until the horse doesn’t care about the trash can anymore. Then, the rider relaxes and lets them walk and they can go back to the other end of the arena and relax. You may have gotten your horse to stop reacting to the trash can today but next time your horse is spooking at a donkey let’s say, your horse is now twice as worried about that donkey because not only is the donkey scary but he knows he’s going to have to work around that donkey until he shuts down again and he knows you’re going to MAKE him go up to it when he really doesn’t want to.

I still think you’ve read into my post things I wasn’t saying or implying OP do.
I think we will have to agree to disagree here.

[Equkelly]

@StormyDay

I still think you’ve read into my post things I wasn’t saying or implying OP do.

I’m not, I think you’re wrong.

[StormyDay]

@Equkelly

I’m not, I think you’re wrong.

Ok. That’s your opinion. We have different training methods. Doesn’t mean one is worse than the other. Have a nice day

[twobits]

Thanks everyone. I rode him inside today and he was PERFECT! did not put one step wrong. he lost focus the first few times we rode past the open door, but within 5 mins he was back to his perfect self. Would it be lazy of me to ride inside for the next little while? i feel we need to address the donkey issue, and i would prefer to ride outside, but i feel like riding near the donkey is a few steps away from where we are currently at mentally, and making him ride in the ring near the donkey is making him frantic about his work rather than enjoy it. i do continue to hand graze and bathe near the donkey… maybe ride inside the indoor and cool out in the outdoor near the donkey?
the hardest part about the donkey spooking for me is that he gets himself worked up about the donkey and then spooks at anything and everything else that is out there - chairs, mounting block, etc. when in fact its just that he has put himself into a frenzy. pre-donkey, chairs, etc. were not scary.

Again, thank you everyone!

[OverandOnward]

Sounds like you are making progress.

FWIW, here is what I’ve been taught for de-spooking a horse, and it works. In a situation like this one where the fear object is an animal that is mobile, modify as needed. I’d probably do this with the fear-object-animal in a pen, to start with.

Bring the horse as close to the fear object as possible where he is still rational and rideable (or, from the ground, responds to the handler’s directions). Don’t get into the geographic panic zone, because no creature can learn while in panic/adrenaline state. In the rational zone, but in sight of the fear object, put the horse to work, under saddle or on the ground. Work work work, just the usual work, not frantic work and not into a lather, horse should not be distressed, just working. Keep going with no pauses. Ground: longeing or even just leading back and forth, turning, backing, etc. Under saddle: no walk, mostly trot, circles & figure eights, some canter, trot-canter transitions, etc.

After a few minutes of work, give the horse a pause and a rest as close to the fear object as they are still calm. While they are standing resting and becoming more calm as their heart rate and breathing settle down, extravagantly praise and reward them for calmness. Petting, rubbing behind the saddle, kind words, lavish it on them and make this the best moment of their day.

Rinse & repeat during each de-spook session. Several minutes of work-work-work followed by two-three minutes of rest as close to the fear object as they can be calm, with praise-praise-praise. Quit the session before their brain is too tired to respond well, maybe 15-20 minutes.

The idea is to create a situation where the horse associates the fear object with rest, praise, comfort and relaxation. Only expose the horse to the fear object during these sessions until they show they are no longer spooky about it. That is, don’t allow an uncontrolled encounter where the horse refreshes its fear.

This technique not only works, it works fairly quickly. Twenty minutes of alternately work-work-work then rest near the fear object can create a remarkable level of change. Several sessions of this can de-spook a horse from even a terrifying fear object.

It may take more than one session to thoroughly and reliably de-spook a particular object. And if the fear is very deeply ingrained it may need to be repeated from time to time throughout the horse’s life.

This technique works a charm if it is done with awareness and sensitivity.

Like any other technique, the best results are if it is used consistently. Every time the horse spooks at anything. Not just when it’s convenient for the rider. Even if it feels that training progress on a spooky horse is being de-railed by constant de-spooking, in the long run de-spooking promotes less distraction, and therefore better learning. And a less spooky horse can matter the most when more advanced training and performance is asked. Everything is better on a calmer, less spooky, more focused horse!

As practiced over time of course – De-spooking more than one object with this technique, basically de-spooking everything the horse spooks at, can gradually create an anticipation in the horse that he’ll always be asked to be calm if he spooks. It helps teach him to calm himself. He may still spook at something new, but at a lower level of intensity. As soon as the work-work-work starts he’s fairly prompt to respond well to the rest phase. Over time the horse gets less spooky generally because their expectations and state of mind are changing.

The first time I ever tried this technique was with a horse that literally dragged me when I wouldn’t let go of the lead rope while he was fleeing in panic from some large white lawn chairs. I wish I had a video of that, but I don’t know how to selfie video while being dragged by a panicking horse. So, once I had the situation in hand again, I went straight to this de-spook technique. It wasn’t easy at first as the horse was so alarmed at any glimpse of those white plastic chairs. But 2 sessions and 3 days later, I did get video of him walking calmly up to the chairs, grabbing them in his teeth and chewing on them. He volunteered the grabbing and chewing of the plastic chairs he couldn’t even look at a few days previous. That was years ago, I’ll see if I can find the video.