How do you get your horse in front of your leg?

I was going to suggest this exact exercise. I do it with my not very self motivated OTTB- I work on a long rein when I first get on for about 5 minutes at the walk, going from a settled walk to a free walk and back. I don’t usually pick up the contact until the end. I do encourage him to do a true (I think free walk for a 10) free walk, with his neck FDO and a big overtrack but again, that is on bare minimum contact.

I find that the transitions in the walk work on a loose rein make a huge difference in his responsiveness throughout the ride.

You also have to make a firm commitment to not nagging with your legs. You have to use your leg and then COMPLETELY TAKE IT OFF. Make it black and white when you are asking for forward and when you are leaving your horse alone to maintain the pace on his own. You have to be quick to catch them backing off, give an aid to remind them not to back off and then leave them alone again.

Also - if you don’t get an immediate reaction from your leg, escalate it with a kick or a touch of the whip. You start with asking in a whisper, and eventually get to a yell if there isn’t a reaction.

Transitions within all gaits help hugely. Go forward, come back, go forward, come back. My whole warmup is a test of going forward and coming back with activity, plus making sure my stiff dude is bending and loosening up his body.

Think “leg without hand, hand without leg” so it is very clear.

I don’t think the answer to getting them in front of your leg is to run them off their feet to achieve forward. You have to have balance, which is where the “come back” part of the transitions within the gaits helps so much.

I find the true test of how in front of my leg my horse is to be the lateral work. Is he leg yielding in an even rhythm, not sucking back, evenly crossing his legs and is it easy for my aids to go through or do I feel like I have to push every step? Take it one step further to the more advanced lateral work and the questions remain the same. My horse can “fake” forward with the best of them and I know if I find myself working really hard in any of the lateral work that I have not gotten him in front of me.

I agree that the feeling can be intimidating and explosive. It has taken me several years to get comfortable with the feeling of them being in front of the leg (and I’m sure as I go up the levels, I will want them even more in front of me than I do now).

3 Likes

I think that I understand what you mean, its just the ‘edge of explosion’ phrasing that is throwing netg off. Its the difference between letting the horse have a little fun with ‘revving the engine a bit’ vs 'what I refer to as ‘revving into the red’. That’s a zone that is particular to each horse, its a feel of energy bubbling up.

I get that a bit with my OTTB when we are doing canter pole work towards home. The energy surges, the ears get impish, his neck inflates from wither to 1/3 or so up his neck as he pushes through in the wish to have a little fun. So I indulge him just a little to carry that over to the other side, then get a quiet downward transition and putter along with the quiet work. He’s cautious, and a little hesitant/behind the leg by nature, so I reward moments of safe boldness. Revved higher it would be an explosion, but instead the energy just bubbles a bit.

2 Likes

I am so glad you guys mentioned the “just this side of an explosion” or “lots of energy… directed to the good,” in this thread. In most disciplines you don’t want this (save the jumper ring and cross country in eventing). I agree that dressage horses need to be always and reliably ahead of the leg… even asking to be allowed to push and go forward to the extent the rider allows. They should be like water behind a dam waiting always for an outlet. And the nature of the schooling can cause a horse to not want to bother.

I’m reassured because I have one of those forward-thinking horses. She has a great walk which I ride with the intention of simply not screwing up. I had help from a pretty good and very nice natural horsemanship guy who thought it was “out of control.” He was critical and saw two problems-- 1. I was riding a horse who was unschooled; we had room for improvement in our training because I wasn’t doing much to influence the speed of the walk; 2. She was walking so fast out of worry; I do agree with him that I ought to ride my horse so that she feels peace. But damn, you guys, I really don’t want to pick at her at the walk until I get her to learn to be a “push ride” there. (His POV was that he could have a walk as long as the one I liked, but that he’d be able to create it rather than accept it).

To me, this training disagreement gets to one of the main philosophical differences between dressage and other flat-intensive disciplines. I find there is an emphasis on “get forward first” and “always forward” in dressage that others don’t worry about so much. In fact, I think the NH guys (even the very good ones) place a premium on being light in the bridle or at the end of a rope before the “forward.”

The denouement to this story was that I decided I would continue ride my mare along dressage lines-- sure, make her as light as she can get for her degree of strength in the bridle, and absolutely light at the end of a rope, but allowing the forward at all gaits. I chose that because I feared the results of making her dull and into a push ride. I do believe that those NH guys can get “forward” and even “into the contact” in their horses… but that comes way later in a the horse’s training. And so I’d have to make a finished horse with them, which would take years, before I could go compete at the lower levels in my discipline.

My remaining question, of course, is about making sure the horse who is forward thinking is doing that with peace. I think the ones who are naturally this way (like my mare) are happier to move than to be bottled up. But she’s also a horse who wants to go faster out of fear and, under saddle, losing her balance causes fear and the instinct to outrun the problem. So I’m sometimes a bit haunted by the NH guy’s observation that my forward marching mare was actually worried and just coping.

4 Likes

Perhaps it’s because I have a horse who explodes, I know the difference.

Available power at all times, where forward is an allowance, not a request, is fabulous. Edge of explosion is something entirely different. And when my exploder is at the edge of explosion, he is VERY behind the leg - which is part of what makes him dangerous. My older mare “bubbles” with energy - she may jig or something, but she’s constantly asking if I want more of whatever we’re doing when she’s in front of the leg. It’s absolutely lovely to ride, and there is no sense of her being near an explosion, but she has never exploded in her life - it’s just a sense she may break into a gallop at any point. :slight_smile: So lengthen and shorten, add bounce, etc., are all available when a horse is in front of the leg.

My baby is just learning to respond to leg (about a month and a half into work, after a light start when pregnant last year), and I got some of my first bits of feeling her in front of the leg yesterday. She has one of those modern dressage horses light front ends, so for her in front of the leg means every once in a while a front leg comes up high enough I see it waving in the air, as she offers more (and I feel it in her hind legs, too). :lol: Still no sense of explosion.

3 Likes

Your description of her is much like my older mare (8 year old, just working toward third level now, started tempi changes literally yesterday).

For the first year under saddle, we had what my trainer called “survival mode” when we got on her. We walked, and let her pick her pace, until we felt peace settle over her. She would spook and sometimes end up on the other side of the arena, and our job was 1) don’t pull on her mouth and 2) move with her so she didn’t feel constrained and restricted. Some days we walked for an hour and a half on her without asking for anything, before she finally relaxed and settled into the work. Trot and canter work were also higher tempos. She has a brain which flies at light speed, and so a slower tempo was totally unnatural to her - and remembering the training level aspect of free movement was key. The western constrain, restrict, then ask for forward later, would have been TERRIBLE for her mind. She never would have achieved peace. Her peace comes from being able to move safely and work out in her brain that her energy has a safe place to go - and if any feared predators were around, she would be allowed to escape them. Moral of the story being, I think you’re doing the right thing!

Slowing came from my gut, from slowing my tempo until she would slow to match, without ever restricting her face to get it. She needed that to help herself chill. I suspect my explosive beast would have been happier to start off the same way, and not had the dangerous explosiveness - but he was a racehorse, so it was all restrict, restrict, let it build to near explosion, then explode out of the starting gate. Really ill suited to him, and still an issue many years later for what it did to fry his brain!

My new baby has just enough tightness to give her naturally expressive and springy gaits which aren’t entirely correct - so with her, it’s gentle bending in her body to loosen up all the tightness and get her freely moving forward - when she would happily nearly passage if I wanted to hold her, but that would affect her ability to progress correctly up the levels. Totally different ride, and almost everything with her is about opposite to what Ellie was like at the same age.

I think what @alibi_18 is meaning about “explosion” is what I think/refer to as that ‘coiled spring’. The potential energy is there, just waiting to be released into kinetic energy (or brilliance as she termed it), not the ‘EXPLOSION’ @netg is thinking of- the leaping/bucking/bolting/rearing evasion
(Note: this is just my interpretation of @alibi_18’s term)

@HeyJealousy , what I had to do is touch my mare’s sides with my legs and increase pressure until I got a response within 3 seconds. If I didn’t get my response I asked again with my legs, but added whip directly behind my leg*, tapping in rhythm until I got the response, and increasing pressure in the legs and weight in the whip until the response was achieved, and held the leg pressure for 3 seconds, then removed all aids . IF she slowed or lost tempo, I would repeat with leg and whip. Now I just need to touch for a fraction of a second (3 seconds gets me too much response) and she maintains that pace/tempo/cadence until asked for a change. As mentioned above, I had to be very conscious of NOT catching her in the mouth, ever, or otherwise blocking her forward response to my aid.

  • Using a whip directly behind my leg always signals forward, faster or more energy, whip on hindquarters always means sideways movement, and is only used for lateral work. Very black-and-white/binary, because horses don’t live in shades of grey or alternative meanings.
4 Likes

ok… again my opinion… It doesn’t matter what type of horse you have. They can be explosive or lazy you want both of them in front of your leg and basically you have to go the same way with both types…
I think the explosive horse uses that exploding tactic to be evasive the same way the lazy horse uses its laziness.

I have 2 young horses one explosive and one very forward but a lot more relaxed and I practice exactly the same things with them.
The explosive horse stops being explosive as soon as it is in front of my legs and the laid back one stops being laid back as soon as she accepts my legs…
I got the foundation for this from the I.W. videos and the rest is just being consistent about what I want.
I want the same result in both horses I want both of them moving with energy specifically in upward transitions.

With both of them I ride a lot of walk in the beginning (BTW I.W. advises that as well :slight_smile: ) I really really use my legs (always inner leg against outer rein with the outer leg behind the girth in order to keep the horses from moving around the butt)

As soon as I am able to go straight down the centerline while feeling that I can push the horse against my outer rein with a forward tendency, or when I can do really nice and smooth round circles or serpentines along the wall with correct change of the leg and rein aids, only then I do walk trot transitions…

Usually I do the transition on the beginning of the long side. This way I can just let the horse go down the long side with a lot of energy and can feel whether I am able to push it with my inner leg towards the outer rein…

If I feel I can’t I can always stop in the corner, go down to walk get organized again and start all over.
Usually I do this once or twice and then I feel how I push the horse against the outer rein. And thats when the fun begins… Because then I am really able to manage the horse. it is relaxed and smooth and I can adjust the tempo as i like… Its very easy I do little half halts (mainly with the outer rein) while i continue to push the horse gently with the inner leg to the outside. If I want to go forward I push a bit more with my inner leg and let the reins go just a little. Its really fun to feel how the horse balances it self with all these little aids.

And it works well with both types of horse… the end result is the same :slight_smile:

4 Likes

YOu can’t expect balance until the horse is moving forward. While I agree that truly running forward is not helpful (especially with the Iberians I ride), you have to have the horse going somewhere with energy and mold that energy into balance.

1 Like

MVP, I think you are describing the difference between the dressage schools of thought - balance first before motion, or balance through motion.

1 Like

Fast and forward are not the same thing.

A horse can be forward yet slow, as in passage or piaffe.

Horses should not be pushed outside their balance. Running is no good.

3 Likes

This is a great example of how helpful video is. It wasn’t until I saw video of my horse when it felt “explosive” that I understood he was really just finally forward. Now I know “the” feeling.

YMMV

2 Likes

FWIW, when my 4 yo feels explosive, I need to move him forward, at that moment. There’s a difference between explosive and a burst of energy. To me, explosive means up, not enough forward energy. But again, that comes from having ridden explosive horses. When they are moving forward correctly, they can’t do a whole lot else. They have to put their energy into that.

I can understand using the term explosive for a horse who hasn’t felt that way before though.

2 Likes

Your first year with your young one sounds similar to the first year with my big mare when I got her at 7, who I love and adore.

That’s where I work now, and it works for me. I just try not to work them more forward than their balance, because the response changes depending on the horse’s default reaction of fight, flight, or freeze. The ‘fight’ horse explodes when worried, the ‘flight’ horse runs when worried, the ‘freeze’ horse sucks back when worried.

But they all seem to go forward and relaxed when the balance is good and the mind is quiet.

2 Likes

Wow. That was so helpful. Thank you for taking the time to share about that long, scary and early chapter with your mare… complete with the happy ending of her success at Third Level and tempi changes now! I’m very grateful because I don’t have lots of help or horsemen around me at my barn that are better than I am. (I don’t me that in a “I rock” way. Rather, I mean that in an "Oh, crap. What if I can’t figure this out on my own?’

I will think on how to ride her a bit like this. She’s getting better at the walk and trot, but her canter is over-tempo as you say and making her feel trapped makes it worse, not better. I will try to ride her without trapping her (mixing that with some peaceful, easy walking stuff) and see what we get. Right about now, I’m grateful for my background in riding jumping horses. I can “sit chilly” up there without pulling while she figures out that she doesn’t need to run.

Just a thought, but introducing and solidifying lateral work at the walk has made it so so so much nicer with mine of similar brain. Then, there’s so much less struggle with the momentum interfering. Its also just so serene and peaceful to glide from SI to SO to SI and different variations with different moves. We started with leg yield looking for leg yield and stretching at the same time. I call it our yoga sessions and its endlessly helpful on days when she’s a bit spun. All the suppling and none of the adrenalizing.

So, what works varies depending upon the horse. This is going to be long so I’ll try to make paragraphs work (sometimes they get eaten when I post!)

Rider responsibilities:
You must ensure you are not blocking the horse’s movement in any way. This means not etrying to set the horse’s head with your hands, not being tight in your hips, not tightening up when the horse does go out of fear - if that happens, get someone else to instill forward and ride a horse preferably of equal power who is in front of the leg so you can learn the feeling without confusing your horse. You’re human, we’re all imperfect - it’s easier to learn on a good example!
Do LESS. Touch (the leg), tap (the whip), THWACK. It’s been mentioned a few times here - ensure you remove the aid as quickly as you use the aid. Holding has never helped me get forward, and while sometimes a lifting squeeze to get abdominals engaged happens, I can ONLY do that on a horse who is already in front of the leg.
Understand the difference between off balance running and forward in front of your leg. If you don’t get it yet, ensure you have very educated eyes on the ground to help you learn the difference.
Once you get the horse in front of your leg, be diligent. Every step from the mounting block on must be in front of your leg.

For the straightforward horse:
What I wrote in rider responsibilities is about all you need. My mom’s mare was purchased to be her last horse to ride - so we bought a horse whose preferred gait is halt. She’s also a very straightforward ride. She’d had no training besides walk/trot on trails, and we suspect some draw rein riding in a ring. It took three rides with consistency for her to always be in front of the leg, because it simply wasn’t worth the effort to fight over it from her perspective. She knew she would have to be, so it was easier to simply do it.

For the tight/tense/explosive type:
Keeping the horse in front of your leg is going to be a survival tool. Take it very seriously!
The lateral work mention by Synthesis can be a great aid to this. You need to understand what muscles are tight on your horse and help to loosen them - plus the horse can’t as easily bend and explode at the same time. This is the horse for whom up and open is probably most required. You do NOT want the explosive horse even considering coming behind the bit, or putting its head between its knees. You need this horse to see an easy path to move forward, and that this is the acceptable method of using that explosive energy. Not a horse for the faint of heart, and most people would simply rather not have this type. Unfortunately, my explosive horse CAN be both in front of the leg and explosive (think of an advanced eventer galloping jumps - they can move and jump at the same time, and he’s schooled advanced. His explosions are a similar height.) Really working on loosening tight muscles so these horses feel able to move is the biggest favor you can do yourself and the horse. You can create an explosive horse by holding in a horse who is too powerful for your comfort level once you get it in front of your leg - so if you feel uncomfortable, get some longe lessons, ask someone else to ride the horse some, just do yourself a favor and don’t create this.

For the sensitive/bubbly high energy type:
This is my older mare. Her brain FLIES. She’s one who can rarely be left in cross ties without a human there for comfort, as her brain goes so fast she talks herself into believing there are monsters without part of her herd there. She also loves the more complicated our work gets, the more movements stacked on top of movements, because it gives her brain somewhere to focus. Most type A dressage riders should relate, as most of us look for our moments of zen and moments to get our brains quiet and enjoying things.
This is the type of horse who will rush off balance. Speed is the enemy of impulsion (and balance.) This is the horse who has to learn to slow in order to be able to come in front of the leg. My mare is tricky to learn about this on, because she goes from trying to race to brakes slammed. And she went through phases of absolutely jumping off the leg. She had to learn to accept the leg on her side (through leg yielding and lateral work), and had to slow and balance - but without pulling on her mouth and turning her into an explosive type. It took a lot of lower abdominal control and slowing rider body movements to convince her to slow her tempo - and even as she is developing reliable half steps and schooling pirouettes, I STILL have to convince her to use a slower tempo. Always letting her know she has an escape if she is threatened was required, so the times I’ve tightened up and held on too much we’ve had problems. You simply have to let them have freedom. With her, balance and feeling of her being in front of or behind my leg can come from a 1/2" change in the position of the top of my pelvis. I move it back for a step (not stride) so tail bone is tucked, and that’s enough to get her back in front of my leg. As we’re working on some things with my legs more solidly against her, diligence in ensuring she is in front of my legs is more important now than ever - because if she gets behind, I’m screwed. We’ve done the basics of “you move when told” mentioned above, which is why now I can fix it so simply.

For the big mover/slower metronome type:
My baby is more balanced, less forward in nature. At the walk, she’s far easier to get in front of the leg without suspension and effort getting in the way. She was lightly started last year, but now is about 6 weeks into getting into the job of being a dressage horse. At the walk, she’ll happily lean crookedly on your leg if you let her, so every ride a little more demand she get off one leg or the other takes place. It’s still all pretty much fun and lighthearted, because she’s just learning.
At the trot and canter, she has more bounce than go. I’ve never ridden such an uphill, balanced greenbean before. However, that suspension has some tension in it. VERY light leg yielding to keep her from leaning her ribs (or mouth) on me, gentle large bending lines to assist with that, and asking that she go slightly faster than her natural tempo are all teaching her about relaxing through her body. Because in her case balance is so predominant, a little forward before worrying about balance is appropriate - the opposite from my other mare. She is actually pretty straightforward, so while we don’t even get into the thwack part, the basics apply for her. Instead of going to the whip it’s touch with leg, tap with leg, then touch with whip - and so far the whip touch has happened about 4 times total because it just hasn’t been needed.

1 Like

Yes! This has been helpful, too. A pro suggested lots of “reverse leg yeilds” (going diagonally down the rail at the walk) and that has been good for getting relaxation as well as building some much-needed strength in the that inside (of the ring) hind leg. We even do spiral in/spiral out on a circle at the walk, or serpentines.

I have been reminded and reinstituted a good 10 minutes of walking at the beginning of each ride. Getting this mare thinking that all we will do is walk, with plenty of freedom for her head (even if going laterally) has been great for her mine. This mare is also my “wheelbarrow” horse-- she is a tad downhill and also finds it easy to lose her balance laterally in front if she pushes with her hind end. So the walk work that asks here to keep her front- and hind-limbs in line and me keeping her head and neck right in front of her chest has helped her build the core strength to actually balance herself. So her body has benefited, too.

2 Likes

@mvp I use it progressively too. Work it at the walk, then at the trot and/or canter. A couple days ago it was work on what I think of as ‘silky’ leg yields. Get the gliding leg yield at the walk, then at the canter.

Granted, the first one at the canter was ridiculous because she is sometimes dramatic (think trantering spider on rollerskates) but all the rest built on the same relaxed work.

The current challenge is my young OTTB. Right now the goal is relax, stretch fdo and learn inside leg to outside rein. He needs a lot of confidence. The more confident he is, the more forward he is. Lots of hacking and miles will fix this though. I’m excited about him though, he has the best canter I’ve ever ridden. It feels as a dolphin looks cresting through the water, light, lifting and powerful

BTW I have 2 videos which show very well the difference between the horse being in front of the leg and the horse not being in front of the leg…

Watching these videos now I am disappointed because I could probably be a lot farther with my horse if I would have done some things different then… But I am glad that at least I figured it out now…
This was last year at a clinic
https://youtu.be/qyT6HDJKdPM

Unfortunately my horse is not in front of my legs and you can see it in many little details.

This is last week
https://youtu.be/AwjChKgH5f4

unfortunately I am very small because the SS3 does not zoom in in covered arenas… But I think you can see the difference…

1 Like