How long does frozen semen keep for?

[Kyzteke]

@Equine Reproduction;5679103

The XC 20 (20 liter tanks) is $540 at Semen Tanks (shipping included) and $525 through Select Sires - shipping is extra One thing I will add is that you can sometimes get nitrogen tanks used. Make absolutely sure that if you do get one, test it before you put semen in it. Many times with companies like Select Sires, they will have tanks available that have been re-manufactured, as well.

Not bustin’ on ya, just trying to make sure the information available is accurate.

Years ago I bought a HUGE “dewer” (the name for a liquid nitrogen holding tank) complete with canes and the things that hold the canes (forgot the name) on e-Bay for $50+ shipping.

The only thing wrong with it was the latch at the top was broken. I fixed that by putting a bungee cord across the top and we were fine. It’s a great tank in terms of quality – it will go for 3-4 months between charges.

But (for anyone thinking of buying one) here is what I learned:

1. A holding tank this size is very HEAVY when filled. Look at the filled wgts when buying, because if you are not on a route where the liq. nit. truck comes to you, you will have to haul that bugger every 2-4 mos. all year long to have it charged.
2. As Kathy said, you must be super vigilant in checking it.
3. Once the time comes to get your semen to the vet, you have to haul the whole tank OR ship the frozen in a shipper…one is a PITA and the other is REALLY expensive.
4. ER can chime in on this, but my belief is that you don’t want to transfer the semen any more times that absolutely necessary – you really want to keep the time o/o the tank to a bare minimum till you are ready to use it.
5. If you go for a smaller tank, you have to re-charge more often. If you go for a large tank, it is super cumbersome to move. So either way, unless you are storing many, many doses of frozen, it’s really more practical to either have it stored at your vet’s or some other place.

Just some thoughts from someone who has been there…

And I remember Dr. Tibary telling me about keeping the tank off the ground. I just put a plywood piece under it – it doesn’t have to be elevated, just something solid between the tank and the earth/ground.

[Equine_Reproduction]

Kytzke, you are correct. We have quite a few of the 47/11 tanks and you are oh so correct. When we are traveling, we take on of those puppies with us as well as one of the 20 liter tanks. We work out of the 20 liter tank and transfer them into the 47/11 tank. The 47/11 tanks are incredibly heavy, as are the 35 liter tanks. The first number, btw, designates how many liters they’ll hold and the second number is the approximate “static” time that it will hold in weeks - so 20/20 is a 20 liter tank that will hold nitrogen for approximately 20 weeks if you are not in and out of the tank. I most emphatically would NOT go 20 weeks without topping off the tank, but it is a guide. The big thing with storing the tanks is that they do have some condensation on the outside of the tank which will, over time, corrode it. If you put them on concrete or the ground, it tends to make that problem worse. A piece of cardboard or plywood is adequate, just something to keep it up a bit and allow it to dry. Even dipping weekly, if you ever see the tank “frosted up”…panic! It means that it may have lost its vacuum. This of course, doesn’t count when you’re pouring nitrogen in or out of the tank, but simply if you walk in and see that there is frost around the top.

We also have alarms on all of our tanks that will call our phone number should they go below a certain level of nitrogen. The alarms run about $500 each, but that’s a small price to pay if you have multiple doses of semen stored in them. Anyone interested in where to purchase those alarms, feel free to email me and I’ll provide you with the name of the company we work with.

Hope that helps!

[RunningwaterWBs]

@Equine Reproduction;5679358

When I called the site you gave this a.m. their price was $540 for the tank, hence my correction <lol>. But, it “does” pay to shop! I always price compare and if you are working with a particular company, let them know that you’ve see the same tank offered for less elsewhere and see if they will price match.

That’s quite odd. When I clicked “buy now” the total at checkout (purchasing online) was $482.68, which includes $33.68 for shipping, but also includes a 5 year warrantee, free canisters, and a free cover. To clarify, this is the tank I’m talking about:
http://sementank.com/CT20.htm

Again, this is the first site that came up on my google search and I use it only as an example to support my point that tanks marketed to the bovine market can be less expensive than some that are marketed to the equine market. Makes me wonder what an exhaustive search might yield.

[Equine_Reproduction]

[QUOTE=hansiska;5681190]
That’s quite odd. When I clicked “buy now” the total at checkout (purchasing online) was $482.68, which includes $33.68 for shipping, but also includes a 5 year warrantee, free canisters, and a free cover. To clarify, this is the tank I’m talking about:
http://sementank.com/CT20.htm

Again, this is the first site that came up on my google search and I use it only as an example to support my point that tanks marketed to the bovine market can be less expensive than some that are marketed to the equine market. Makes me wonder what an exhaustive search might yield.[/QUOTE]

Okay, there’s the problem. The tank(s) that you are looking at is/are made in China and are NOT reliable. They have a high failure rate :(. I checked the first link you posted (Select Sires), not the second. My apologies. Pretty much you want to stay with tanks that are manufactured by MVE or Taylor Wharton. And be aware, that the 5 year warranty that comes with any tank will cover the tank, but not anything that is in it. Hope that helps!

[Equine_Reproduction]

[QUOTE=hansiska;5681190]
That’s quite odd. When I clicked “buy now” the total at checkout (purchasing online) was $482.68, which includes $33.68 for shipping, but also includes a 5 year warrantee, free canisters, and a free cover. To clarify, this is the tank I’m talking about:
http://sementank.com/CT20.htm

Again, this is the first site that came up on my google search and I use it only as an example to support my point that tanks marketed to the bovine market can be less expensive than some that are marketed to the equine market. Makes me wonder what an exhaustive search might yield.[/QUOTE]

That link is for tanks that are manufactured in China. They have a reputation of failure. The walls of the tank are thin and do not hold up well. Stick with well known, well made tanks such as MVE or Taylor Whartons. Both brands are well made and well known in the industry.

Also, be aware that the warranty, regardless of the brand, will be for the tank only. Any semen that is in the tank and lost, the manufacturer will not cover. In other words, it’s a false economy, especially if you have a tank fail with lots of semen in it.

[RunningwaterWBs]

It’s JUST one example, Kathy… Obviously people can shop for themselves. I can’t imagine that every semen tank manufacturer that DOESN’T sponsor you makes products that self-destruct in a month’s time.

If the average New England dairy farmer is any indication, a substandard product will not last in the market. It’s a tight community and word gets around FAST. So, check with your local dairy farmer.

[RunningwaterWBs]

MVE tanks are manufactured by Chart Industries, whose headquarters are in Garfield, Ohio.

Semen tanks are listed under their “Distribution & Storage” division, which has US service centers in Georgia, Texas, and Minnesota. This division has sales centers in Shanghai, China and Solingen, Germany.

The distribution and storage division has “Operating Units” in the US in Georgia and Minnesota as well as Decin, Czech Republic and Changzhou, China.

The company also has a location in Zangjiagang, China not attributed to any one division. So it looks to me that MVE tanks – or at least parts of them – may be manufactured in China too.
https://www.chart-ind.com/company_locations.cfm

[Jos]

[QUOTE=hansiska;5682749]
I can’t imagine that every semen tank manufacturer that DOESN’T sponsor you makes products that self-destruct in a month’s time.[/QUOTE]

We are not sponsored by any semen tank manufacturers - poor quality or otherwise. You are ill-advised and erroneous in your observation.

[RunningwaterWBs]

My mistake. You ARE, however, sponsored by http://www.sementanks.com/ the website Kathy was refering to above, which vends only MVE brand tanks. Their link clearly appears on every page of your website, usually under the words “Proudly sponsored by:”

[Jos]

[QUOTE=hansiska;5683079]
You ARE, however, sponsored by http://www.sementanks.com/[/QUOTE]

Correct.

We hand pick our sponsors - we are solicited by many, but as you will have noticed, there are few. Our sponsors must fulfill the following criteria in order to become sponsors:

• Their products must be related to equine reproduction (obviously!);

• Their products must be effective and either proven through peer-reviewed research or clinical results;
• Their products must be cost-effective and reliable;
• Their customer service must be good;
• They must be prepared to accept input about their products - good or bad - that we or members of the industry through us provide to them, with a view to improvement if necessary.

That way we can provide some degree of guarantee that the companies and their products that we are recommending are going to be of use, value and service to the members of the industry who choose to follow our recommendation. In a sense, our reputation stands behind their reputation and vice versa.

This does not mean that the products are going to necessarily be the cheapest out there, but it does mean that there is a degree of quality behind them. Some people such as yourself prefer cheap, but we prefer quality and prefer to recommend quality. This, we feel is particularly important when it comes to something as important as storing one’s semen. MVE have a demonstrated low tank failure rate - and remember any tank can fail - so we feel that is an important point to consider when one is going to store expensive semen. Obviously it’s a matter of personal choice, and you have offered a cheaper alternative. That’s fine. Nothing wrong with that. To each their own.

Your attack above on this subject, and in the vitriolic private message to Kathy associated with it, epitomize the reason why I post on CotH rarely - currently only doing so to assist others during Kathy’s convalescence. As I have noted elsewhere, this board seems to have a handful of people that are most unpleasant in their board personae, which is most unfortunate as the majority of people here are, I am sure, merely seeking information or a pleasant diversion. I believe I have answered the original question with adequate information and now consider my posting on this thread closed. I expect that you will feel a need to have the last word, and that is fine. Or perhaps you will rise above that need, we will see.

[RunningwaterWBs]

If by vitriolic you mean this:
“I have a valid point and I’m entitled to make it. I guess I missed the CoTH memo saying you are the only one here allowed to give advice on semen tanks.”
…so be it. But I’m not the one who PT’d in the first place, am I?

Kathy’s the one who for some reason wanted to discredit my point – which, for the record, is simply that semen tanks marketed to the bovine market can be cheaper than those marketed to the equine market – and then to discredit the site I found, and then to put down tanks made in China.

I’m not sponsored by anyone and have no dog in this fight. I have no doubt there are folks here who have the utmost respect for both of you and will take your recommendations for products based on your venerable experience.

I never said that MVE tanks aren’t high quality or that your sponsor doesn’t sell them at a good price. I have no experience with the tanks from the site I found at random, but Kathy’s statement that they quoted her $540 for the tank in question didn’t jive with my findings and I felt compelled to say it. The statement about China compelled me to do a bit of investigating, too, and I think the results were interesting, to say the least.

My first post here has nothing to do with you, your website, or your sponsors. My intent is certainly not to discredit you or Kathy. I was making a simple point and I stand by it. I, too, am just trying to make sure the information available is acurate.

Sorry if you consider my sarcasm “an attack.” I get sarcastic when people try to bully me.

[rodawn]

Jos and Kathy - I just wanted to say, thank you very much for the wonderful information on the products. I happen to be in the market for new tanks so it is excellent timing.

I also wanted to say Thank You Both for being ever-willing to share your extensive knowledge with breeders on this board. I hope that you both will continue to post on here, because to lose you because of a few people would be a most grievous loss to the breeding community as a whole.

[Stix]

moo

Sorry, but I found the Cow info interesting. Surprisingly enough, we have a multi- million dollar cow farm in the center of Litchfield, CT that was once 3 horse farms now converted to Dairy! The cow product quality is really changing I think.
I find a price difference all the time. Sometimes you are paying for a name. Hey, I pay extra for K-cups cuz thats what I like. But I want to know is well this one is better because it has a good latch or this one has a great handle or this this one is cheaper because it has orange polka dots…
I liked that Hansiska dug for an answer. I didn’t see it as an attack. I thought some good info was coming out. To me it just seemed like there was ruffling when she mentioned the sposoring. Just saying… Then the weird thing about the last comment. Why would you write all that?
I was like, Huh?
Anyway, still not sure if I want my own tank. I just don’t think it is worth the headache…