How long does it take to start a horse under saddle?

[PNWjumper]

I’ve started several of my own and sent others out for 30, 60, or 90 days. I think “it takes as long as it takes” as well, but if you’re paying a full training and board fee and you’re 6 months in with nothing really to show, I would be inclined to pull the horse out of the program. I would certainly wonder what is being done with the horse and why.

I recently sent my 3yo holsteiner out to a horse breaker because he has a bit of a naughty streak and I didn’t want to try starting him with my current travel schedule because of the inherent inconsistency. I consider my boy to be smart, but not necessarily precocious, and I would say that he tends towards the “takes a little longer” side of things in the breaking process.

The trainer that had him took about 30 days to get him doing a (very rough) walk and trot (mostly in a round pen). He was cantering within about 45 days, and the next 45 days were spent basically refining the work.

When he came back to me after 90 days he was very solid with his walk, trot, and canter work. He didn’t go on even the slightest bit of a contact (though I worked on that after he came home…NOT to get him “in a frame” of any sort, simply for him to learn that he could continue to go forward with a very light contact on the reins). He had done some basic lateral work and had done a handful of little jumps and poles at the trainer’s place.

I rode him for another 20 days and then took him to a Greg Best clinic to start him jumping for real. Here he is at 3 1/2 months under saddle:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q851DtF9en4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUyojmjxX9k

In my experience, my boy’s progress is pretty average for a horse without any “issues.” With that being said, my plan was to get him broke and jumping over the course of 90-120 days and then turn him back out until next year. That means I do a little bit more with a horse then I would do if my plan was to keep him going through the winter and into the spring. Maybe your trainer’s plan takes this into account???

Either way I would question why the horse wasn’t doing more than walking and trotting after 6 months of training. There may be a very valid reason, but I would expect to have it explained to me in great detail when I spoke to the trainer. I would not be happy paying a full training fee month in and month out with no end in sight UNLESS there was a very good reason.

[EqTrainer]

I would have to have a very, very good reason given to me for six months and not trotting under saddle.

I have turned the horse starting over to my now ex-working student but still help her. In six months they are w/t/c, hacking out and doing small gymnastics. Clipping, loading, tying, etc. Etc. HOWEVER - we had one last year who was very difficult. Eventually we decided this horse was simply going to be a bronc and he needed to go to someone who rides broncs :lol: and truly… Every single step with that horse takes three times as long as the others. Ah well.

But here the thing…his owner knew exactly what was going on and why he needed to go somewhere else. There is no reason to keep secrets, the horse tells you what is going on, I could be ok with that timeline IF there were a reason.

Also… Saying this gently… But owners often have ideas about their young horses that are a bit off. So do consider that perhaps the trainer didn’t feel that her skills were where they needed to be, to progress quickly. It happens.

[charliesangel]

[QUOTE=EqTrainer;5208699]
I would have to have a very, very good reason given to me for six months and not trotting under saddle.

I have turned the horse starting over to my now ex-working student but still help her. In six months they are w/t/c, hacking out and doing small gymnastics. Clipping, loading, tying, etc. Etc. HOWEVER - we had one last year who was very difficult. Eventually we decided this horse was simply going to be a bronc and he needed to go to someone who rides broncs :lol: and truly… Every single step with that horse takes three times as long as the others. Ah well.

But here the thing…his owner knew exactly what was going on and why he needed to go somewhere else. There is no reason to keep secrets, the horse tells you what is going on, I could be ok with that timeline IF there were a reason.

Also… Saying this gently… But owners often have ideas about their young horses that are a bit off. So do consider that perhaps the trainer didn’t feel that her skills were where they needed to be, to progress quickly. It happens.[/QUOTE]

Thanks for the great responses everybody. I am torn as to what to do at this point. There has been one thing after another which has also caused her to not be worked, such as shoes coming off and my trainer’s farrier not coming out for days to fix it, she was vaccinated so my trainer had a few days off, she coliced (scary as luckily I was there to catch it) so she had some more days off, and weather was crappy/windy/rainy off, trainer was sick, gone, etc and on so she wasn’t worked for whatever reason. That being said, if I am paying for full-training, she should be in full-training. I know he only works with her probably on average 3 days a week. I have tried talking to him and don’t get much info. I have spoken to the trainer about maybe her just being too immature or not ready, etc and he said thats not the case. I guess I will just try talking with him tomorrow and see. On a sidenote, if anybody has any great recommendations for trainers within 2 hours from San Francisco, please let me know! Thanks.

[Across_Sicily]

See, this would be an instance where RateMyHorsePro.com would come in handy It would be interesting to see if others had similar experiences with your trainer.

I think there’s “starting slow” and then there’s “basically moving backwards”… and your horse has basically only walked under saddle at the end of six months? Unless she came in as a completely feral creature I would be pretty concerned. As a difficult horse, I would expect a semi-decent w/t/c by this time; as a normal horse I would expect more. As much as you don’t want to push them too hard, they also need to learn to do a job, and it’s as much teaching them a work ethic as it is teaching them new stuff.

If it were my horse I would probably bring her home or find a new trainer.

Oh, and PNWJumper - your greenie is so cute!

[Equilibrium]

Your mare has been in training for 6 months and she takes a few steps under saddle and you’re worried it might be a little slow in the progression area. Well you’re darn tooting right it is. Unless this horse is some kind of monster, I think some kind of trot in 1/2 a year’s training is expected.

Look, I’m sure you like your guy but come on you know something isn’t right. I would see if you can’t find someone closer to where you are if possible, it makes a difference.

I’m the opposite of everyone else, I start mine and then send them to pro’s to polish off. And with my 4 turning 5 mare, he will be jumping her as well. Would not have done it if I couldn’t just pop in whenever I wanted.

And I would tell you what else I would be worried about, sheer boredom for a horse that has been in work for 6 months and can’t trot but a few steps. And again, if horse is difficult something else entirely, but from what I’ve read she seems quite good. I like starting them and letting them out again (start at 2,late) bring back at 3 in which more is accomplished but same thing, another break. Now if horse is mentally and physically ready then after their break they get ready to do their job. If not bring back at 4 and then work on their job. Like these would be my own so not wasting anyone’s money, but I do like them having breaks as they are only babies.

Terri

[alto]

The problem is with the latter is that I have given him a few more months than originally planned and she still isn’t progressing. He says she is but I do not agree. I have only been on her one time and needless to say it was not a good ride. I was led around one circle and my horse was freaked out the whole time. I have asked him if she is just not “mentally” ready and should I just take her home until the spring (of course working with her a bit) and he said absolutely not, she was physically and mentally ready and that would be the worst thing I can do.

How long had she been in training at this point? have you had her out off the farm much before she went off to training?

After 6 months & such limited progress I’d consider ending her on a good note & putting her back out for the winter to do some mental maturing.
Even with the foot & health issues (of both trainer & horse) this seems incredibly slow, couple this with the trainer’s unwillingness to engage in a frank discussion & I’d bring my horse home.

[bizbachfan]

I am no expert by any means and of course every horse is different. However either a horse is ready to start or not in my opinion. If horse is ready to start and he is giving full training horse should be worked with 5 days a week unless you agreed to something else. If horse cannot walk/trot/canter under saddle with little issue I would bring it home. Either give horse a break or find another trainer. The red flags to me are: 1) 6 months, only takes a step or two at trot? 2) talked to trainer but no response? HUH? he works for you
3) you seem to not trust trainer
Go get your horse.

[Oakstable]

Get your horse. It seems to me you are a money tree for this trainer.

Some horses are not ready to be started at age 3. Bring your horse home, and start again in the spring with a different trainer.

[EqTrainer]

[QUOTE=charliesangel;5208881]
Thanks for the great responses everybody. I am torn as to what to do at this point. There has been one thing after another which has also caused her to not be worked, such as shoes coming off and my trainer’s farrier not coming out for days to fix it, she was vaccinated so my trainer had a few days off, she coliced (scary as luckily I was there to catch it) so she had some more days off, and weather was crappy/windy/rainy off, trainer was sick, gone, etc and on so she wasn’t worked for whatever reason. That being said, if I am paying for full-training, she should be in full-training. I know he only works with her probably on average 3 days a week. I have tried talking to him and don’t get much info. I have spoken to the trainer about maybe her just being too immature or not ready, etc and he said thats not the case. I guess I will just try talking with him tomorrow and see. On a sidenote, if anybody has any great recommendations for trainers within 2 hours from San Francisco, please let me know! Thanks.[/QUOTE]

Ah well, those are really not valid reasons. The only one is, the horse is not ready, which certainly can happen. If you have given him the chance to tell you that and he denies it, time to move on IMO.

[Freebird]

I agree with the others - 6 months is way too long.

Did you sign any type of training contract when you first took your horse to the trainer? When I take babies in to be started, I have a contract that clearly lays out exactly what I plan on doing, and how long - generally - each step will take. I also have the owner write down specific goals she would like to see met, and I try my best to accomplish them.

I evaluate the horse for 2 weeks, and then sit down with the owner and we then talk in more detail about how long things will take. If I feel that the horse is too immature to be backed, I would tell the owner straight away. I also look at the horse’s tack, feed, turnout, feet, and soundness and again, if I see anything amiss, I talk to the owner.

I have broke many, many babies, from ponies to TB racehorses, but I have only had one horse who took that long - and as it turned out, she was truly unridable and ended up as a broodmare, I think.

I wonder if, for whatever reason, your trainer is scared of your mare. You can be an excellent pro rider, but if you are the least bit scared of riding babies, then you will never get very far with them.

[bizbachfan]

I am still amazed at trainers who give no feedback to owners who are paying them.

[Jellybean83]

My 3 yr old was sent to a trainer’s to be backed and in 6 weeks could lunge and WTC on a loopy rain. She could also safely be ridden at the walk on a trail ride. Steering was pretty questionable at this point though haha.

She was sent out to be broke in July. She had most of the rest of Aug and Sept off because I didn’t have much time. She got ridden maybe 3-4 times in Sept just walk and trot. She can now WTC, stop, walk over poles, and steer pretty well. She will stay on the rail unless asked otherwise. She doesn’t get ridden with any contact at this point though. She’s been getting ridden no more than 3 times a week since Oct 1st. She’s going to be a hunter if that makes any difference.

[Equilibrium]

[QUOTE=bizbachfan;5209074]
I am still amazed at trainers who give no feedback to owners who are paying them.[/QUOTE]

I know, right!

Look OP, I’ve been on both sides of the coin and I see the regulars here on CoTH who know what they are on about also replying. You need to go and get your horse. See if you can’t find someone a little closer. I do know that in some area’s of the States it’s hard to find good trainers locally. One advantage I have here in Ireland.

You are paying for a service you are not getting, so bring her home. Don’t feel bad or guilty because you haven’t been treated fairly and nor has your filly.

I remember when I sent Abba off there in September and my trainer said, “we’ll give it 2 weeks so I can assess your mare and not waste your time or money.” and I said, “we’ll give it 2 weeks to make sure you can handle one annoying owner.”:lol:
Needless to say it’s all worked out better than expected but both parties need to be able to communicate.

Terri

[JumpinBeans81]

Alright, i’m gonna jump in here…hope I don’t get yelled at…I have an entirely different take on starting youngsters and it has yielded extremely good results for me. That said, it is well to note that EVERY rider and horse are different and what works for me may not work at all for you or your situation. I have started around 30-40 young horses that have gone on to happy, productive “careers”.

My absolute first priority is having a horse move in and around my space on the ground with attention and respect. (and i’m not holding any carrot sticks, just practical down-to-earth good ground manners). This can take anywhere from 1 hour to 1 week depending on the horse and tactic…there is a fine line between confidence/intimidation and kindness/timidity…cross over to the wrong side and you will either fry a brain or turn into a door mat. That is as blunt as it gets, but as clear as I can make it. This is all about consistency and fairness and it is what builds a compassionate trusting relationship to further training under saddle.

Undersaddle, my first priority is controlling the hind end. if you can control the hind end the front end follows suit. This means forward! and beyond forward, my first 2-3 days are spent asking the horse to move its haunches to the left and to the right all at the walk in a round pen. typically they do actually “get it” in a few days, the basics of a leg yield and later a turn on the forehand (though definitely not a full circle on the forehand, just when I am asking for the change of direction accross the round pen as this helps them to engage properly and learn where their feet are) The other thing that seems to naturally happen when you focus on getting them to move their haunches a few steps either direction is that they do shorten their frame naturally which makes it easy to begin having a light amount of contact on the bit. When they shorten their frame and you have light contact and switch directions, once you are on a “straight” line again imediately realease and praise and they have just begun to understand what positive contact is. At this point, when they give a little from the jaw I start thinking about allowing thim to take a few steps of canter.

First steps of trot and canter are often in the first week - 10 days of backing in the round pen…that may sound ambitious, but the point is to get them forward thinking first and in front of your leg…not to necessarily have a great transition…I find less instances of pissy behaviour and those looking to “find a trick” when you keep their minds busy and they learn they can carry weight in the canter this early on in training…mind you this is only one trip around the round pen each direction. given with LOADS of praise/encouragement. By the 2nd week we are out of the round pen and working on figure eights and serpentines at the walk and trot. Depending on the horse and his/her mental/physical maturity I may also choose to ask for the canter toward the end of the 2nd week. I do not ride a baby as if it is a baby and crouch forward or throw my reins away like I often see done. I ride them in much the same light soft way I would my other horses…I just don’t have the expectation that I will get the same response. Babies need help and support and most of all kind consistency using correct aids…and Yes every horse is different…but when I hear that a horse is not even trotting and cantering after 6 MONTHS of training?? it makes me a little sick to my stomach. That is just one opinion from my corner of the world. Isn’t it great to have so many different ways and thoughts for obtaining the same end result.

[meupatdoes]

Six months?

This was my horse after two, three, and four.

He was going on solo hacks around the fields after 5-10 rides.

eta
To be fair I should add that I am starting the timeline “after first swinging a leg over.” He had a great beginning with an owner who had him beautifully prepared on the ground and handled daily from weanling on who also did some longing work for a month or two before anyone hopped on.

[MichiganHunter91]

It all depends on the horse and the training it gets.

Some horses learn faster/slower than others. It’s hard to put the number of days, weeks, months, years on it.

If you’re having trouble with affording the training, maybe lease the horse to an experienced trainer if worse came to worse.

And that could be possible what you said OP, the horse and trainer may not “click” together; horses have their likes and dislikes as well. If he is busy with other horses and chores, he may not be putting the time your horse may deserve and it may be time to move on to someone else.

She sounds like a lovely horse though. Good luck!

[JumpinBeans81]

Wow, am I ADD or what!?! lol: …sorry for the long drawn out post…started to list the things I thought should be accomplished in a 6 mo time frame and got a bit carried away…sorry!! :winkgrin:

Personally, as stated before and by many others…you know something is off, you can feel it down to your bones. Take her home or take her somewhere else. In my own experience a youngster with an idle mind is the one that begins acting up just to find things to do.

Absolutely best of luck to you and your youngster!! This is just a little bobble in the road…it does get better and before you know it you will be riding her without any hitches :yes:

Give your girl a hug and a carrot!

[bizbachfan]

please update us on what happens, can’t imagine a quiet, reasonable horse being this slow to move along in training as much as a nobody that I am.

Hoping for a happy ending

[mademoiselle]

I got 4 horses in training end of August and in September, all are 3 YO WBs. Some had good ground work, some not so much:eek:.

They are all going w/t/c undersaddle in a arena. They have their leads, they have been ponied on trails with a rider, they have popped over an X.
They are worked 3 to 4 times a week.

Get your horse out of that barn …

I took a week of vacation and I took it off the training bill for my clients.:yes:

[charliesangel]

Thanks everybody for the GREAT responses…sometimes you just need to hear about others’ experiences Since I already paid, I told my trainer I would be taking her out at the end of this month. Meanwhile, I am trying to find a “new” trainer to take her to. Depending on whether or not I find one soon, I may or may not leave her there the full month. Any suggestions for trainers!!!

The whole thing is just such a disappointment…I know several people who have had great experiences with their horse’s training there so I thought I was getting into a good thing Perhaps she will miraculously improve and I may not need to take her anywhere else but home at the end of the month, lol. I know…wishful thinking.

When I do finally get her home, any tips on how often/how long she should be worked? Thank you!