How many times have you fallen off?

[splitrockfarmnc]

@mmeqcenter

I’ve literally never heard that falling off makes you a bad rider. We all learn, we all fall. Beezie Madden has fallen off, too. It’s just part of the sport. As a teen I always heard that you’re not a “real rider” until you’ve fallen off 100 times.

I was often told something similar, and in a general sense I agree with it! It shouldn’t be taken too literally… Obviously in this sport the point is to stay on, to stay connected (physically and mentally) with your horse. But accepting that falling off comes with the territory, and learning how to do it “well” is actually an extremely valuable education.

As a pre-teen, I think I fell off just about every week for a while when I got my first horse. Green + green, not a good match but we both made it through. Since then, I’ve hit the deck plenty of times on a variety of horses with a variety of skills and level of training. Couldn’t tell you exactly how many but no doubt I’ve hit 100. However I haven’t come off in a couple of years, despite a few close calls. Now I’m off to ride a little later today, hopefully haven’t jinxed myself!

[ridernc]

@Bepau

If I listened to what everyone said to me I would still be jumping .80 cm with a horse that was actually problematic, he actually broke my elbow and left me out of the saddle for half a year because I was convinced by people that he was the perfect ride for me. I’m trying to stop listening so much to others and only listening to my coach or to what I consider that applies to me, like certain comments that seem to be saying similar things that my coach has said or things that seem that would work, like the person who suggested trying small jumps and relaxin. It worked perfectly today!

If you’re referring to the last horse you posted about on a previous thread, you got about 6 pages of replies from folks here telling you the horse was definitely problematic as was your trainer. It sounds like you ultimately switched horses and trainers (as almost everyone suggested) and were happier for it. Maybe there is a lesson in that.

@PNWjumper

Based on that comment (along with a few other “odd” comments), I suspect that you are not doing anything close to the heights you’re posting here. And no, falling off often once you get to the 1.20m level is not normal. In the lower levels and as you’re learning, sure. But by the time you’re jumping 1.20m, you should be able to sit a stop on pretty much anything but the really dirty stopper. Everyone falls off at every level, not saying that in and of itself is odd. But if you’re falling off regularly or even having horses stop with you regularly…that is not a positive thing and will ultimately impact your confidence very seriously.

^ Sums it up nicely. Good luck, wear a helmet.

[merrygoround]

You ask, after all these years?

I never realized I was supposed to counting.

Does when, where and why, need to be in the explanation.

[Doctor_sOrders]

@Bepau

@supershorty628

Theres no need to be rude just because I don’t think your advice applies to me, you don’t take advice from everyone do you? You being rude to me, even to the point of getting angry or bothered, just because I didn’t take your advice makes me even more relcutant to listen to you. I mean, do you think you’re so good that everyone has to listen to you or else they’ll get hurt or break their necks? Do you think you know EVERYTHING that if someone doesn’t listen to you it means their stupid? I know i don’t know everything which is why I ask around, which is why I have a trainer who corrects my every move, but I don’t go around shoving advice that clearly doesn’t apply to certain people or that they don’t want.

Without having seen video of you riding, I would venture to guess your riding, like your response here, is defensive. When riding difficult horses or after having a series of falls or scary encounters with a horse, it is very natural to get defensive! I myself am working through my tendency to develop a defensive posture when a horse starts to act out because of some bad falls I have had. Like others have said, going back to basics/taking a step back is always a great option when your confidence is shaken. Sounds like this approach is working for you so that is great.

It is also natural for young women to be defensive when receiving less than positive commentary. I too struggle to not get defensive when I am told something I don’t want to hear. However, you have to realize that when you put yourself out there, whether on the internet or in the show ring, you will hear things you don’t want to hear. Some of it can be very useful like what @supershorty628 has told you. She is a very accomplished rider who rode a “less than perfect” horse around some big courses. Go look at her youtube videos and you will see someone who has done what you are wanting to do.

Her advice may not be what you want to hear but it is good advice all the same. It seems like you are confused a bit on the point of a safe horse vs. an automatic horse. There are safe horses that are challenging rides. There are challenging horses that are unsafe rides. I think she is trying to help you by telling you it is not worth riding the dangerous or unsafe ones.

Lastly, I haven’t read all the posts but it concerns me that I am 3 pages in and I have seen you mention multiple times that you get distracted easily and no one has commented on it. Do you feel your distraction is contributing to some of the stops at fences/falls you have had? Have you considered that maybe you have ADHD or something that means you struggle to concentrate? If so, you may want to take this into consideration! Sports psychology is an integral pillar in riding success I have found. Others have already said how this sport has a large mental component. Maybe there are some measures you can take off the horse to improve your riding, like mental exercises to improve focus and concentration.

[Doctor_sOrders]

@Bepau

@RAyers

The more replies I get the more i notice that people in the US really are sort of up tight, or at least most seem to like everything controlled, 100% safe and no risks. I mean the best of horses are the toughest to ride, the satisfaction you get from finally getting that perfect ride when training hard with a challenging horse is the best feeling ever.

I think if you want good advice you should be careful how abrasive you decide to be. Your comment above is a broad brush statement to make. How would you feel if someone commented saying “The more replies I get the more I notice that people in Mexico really are sort of too casual in their riding, or at least seem to like to run around on horses they can’t stay on, 100% risk and no regard for safety or proper riding.”

Both your statement and the fictional one above are clearly ignorant, offensive and in no way apply to either country.

[Scribbler]

I just noticed that OP says she has been riding 3 and a half years and is jumping 1.2 m.

That is a very short time to be riding and I would not expect any rider to have excellent problem solving skills at that point. If you want to jump big this early you need a good horse

[MissCoco]

I’ve been riding a bit less than 5 years, and I’ve fallen off 10 times.
Here’s my break down:

2 x inappropriately horsed or lessoned: I was pushed before I was ready to deal with minor disobedience/unpredictability

2 x horses being horses: major spooks I just had no chance of sitting. I do lots of ab work to help me sit bigger spooks.

5 x weak position: These were minor bucks, playing after jumps, little spooks, and well-projected stops or runouts I should have been able to predict or deal with once they occurred. Most of them happened because I was nervous, unfocused, or just had a weak, disorganized position when I was capable of better.

1 x me making bad choices: Learned an important lesson about my decisions being the biggest safety factor in my rides!

I think any number of falls or near misses that shake your confidence is a sign you should consider changing something about your program.
There is no harm in staying at a level that feels straightforward until you feel super confident at those heights, and there are always things to improve and be worked on in flatwork or over low fences that should translate to higher jumps as well.
It’s a lot harder to rebuild shaken confidence (or to recover from an injury) than it is to avoid it in the first place.

[rockyriver7]

I had a dirty stopper for 5 years. He used to toss me off all the time, I lost count. And, at the time I was a terrible rider. However, that horse taught me so much that is invaluable to me today. Working through his issues instead of moving on to a better horse was an awesome experience. From the countless refusals, first I learned how to fall and not get hurt. Then I learned how to stay on. Then, I learned how to prevent the refusal in the first place. Overall the experience made me 10x the rider I used to be, and now I have a much better seat capable of riding the difficult ones. The horse improved tenfold as well. At the beginning I had people saying I was a terrible rider and my horse shouldn’t be jumping, and by the end I had people offering to buy my former dirty stopper at shows and asking me to ride their horses.
It’s not like “x” number of falls makes you a bad rider. Its a direct reflection of the horses you ride and the opportunities you take. Sometimes working through an issue is a good thing.

[ComingAttraction]

Lost count in the 80’s. 🤷🏼”â™€ï¸

[Puffergrrl]

@Bepau

You’re right, decision is the most important.

I just get really anxious, I feel like falling off means I’m a bad rider and my confidence has so taken a hit. I just don’t know why but I feel like i don’t ride well and it makes me a bit sad to say the least.

Yeah, dirty stops are something we are working on with my horse ' He didn’t stop like that at 90 cm but at 1m and up he has been telling us basically that he wants and NEEDS a rider to ride him or he won’t care and refuse.

I didn’t read all of the original responses, so apologies if some of this has been said, but I was hoping I could help.

1st, I will tell you that I fell off more in my best year of riding than I had in probably in 8 years (placed top 25 in the US nationally, silver medal zone jumper finals, awarded Gold Star Emerging Athlete, etc.)…and pretty much all of them were in the schooling ring at shows before big classes. As long as you learn something from landing in the dirt and promise yourself you’ll never come off for the same reason again, you have nothing to be embarrassed about. Being worried about falling off or looking dumb or what other people think about your riding is only going to distract you and cause more problems. You don’t have to be pretty to be effective. First you get the job done, then you can make it pretty.

On to your horse. Let’s go easy on him for the time being and not call him a “butt head” just yet. He sounds like he’s actually quite good and forgiving at the level you both have experience at, right? Where you’re having trouble is in the 1.10+ range where he hasn’t jumped at all and you both haven’t jumped together. That’s fair. It’s possible that he is one that is going to be what we’ll call “particular” at bigger heights. Which means that he’ll jump, but only if you’re very accurate. I’ve had one like that. Sometimes that’s how you get a big jumping horse for a good price. (Everyone else passes them up, because they want something that will jump the height even from a miss). Maybe your trainer knew your budget, knew this, and thought he/she could work with you to make you two work out in time.

Every horse takes some riding. I know from watching a lot of the Mexican team ride, those guys can really work a horse, and I’m guessing you don’t have quite as much raw strength as your trainer to dig in and really RIDE such a big horse too. So it’s possible that things will also improve with time after you get to know each other better and you learn what buttons to push to get him to listen and respond to YOU and not just your trainer.

Have patience, it sounds like you’re on an okay track, it just takes time. It’s good that you’re riding extra horses, because that will give you a lot of knowledge on how to deal with a lot of different situations and help you build muscle memory for position and many things will just become a reflex response you don’t have to think about. However, be sure you give extra time and focus to your own horse, so that you form a bond and some additional trust there. He needs to believe in you and right now, he’s not so sure. Sell him on the relationship with confident riding and by being a kind friend (even if you sometimes think he’s being kind of a butt head).

[Puffergrrl]

@supershorty628

I keep coming back to this because I think OP is pretty plucky (I mean this in a good way) and does actually want to improve their situation, despite some questionable statements upthread. So here’s a thought. OP, you said earlier that you have to get a perfect distance on your horse or he’ll stop, but this doesn’t really happen if you keep your leg on (if I’m paraphrasing correctly). I’m wondering if, in some ways, this idea of the “perfect” distance is actually contributing to the problem. The logic behind that:

A lot of people get so hung up on there being one perfect distance, and it causes a problem because they’re trying to aim for this one take-off spot at every fence. That puts a lot of pressure on you as the rider, and for some people, if they come off the turn and don’t see that one spot, they freeze, take their leg off, pull to try to make it happen, etc. Then if it doesn’t work out, there’s this negative feedback loop in your head of “oh, I didn’t get to the perfect distance, I’m not accurate, I’m not good enough,” and that can wreck your self-confidence. In actuality, there’s a range of distances that you can leave from, with the width of that range dependent on the horse’s scope. My trainer growing up had a great way of showing people this in lessons, but I can’t really do that here so please be patient with some poorly drawn stick art.

Let’s say the end of the ring is the bottom of the screen.

|===============| <- this is your jump
>>>>>>>x <-- hypothetical perfect distance (> just so your hypothetical distance is in the center)

So this is a lot of pressure on a rider to come off the turn and approach a fence aiming for this one little x. And what happens if you don’t get to that x? What if you’re a little long or a little deep? If you’re thinking about it as needing the perfect distance, that’s a lot riding on getting right to X marks the spot. But what it’s actually like is more like below:

===============

There’s really a range for your horse, and he can jump from anywhere within here and clear it.

---

So what’s really key to getting from one side to the other? It’s not the perfect distance, it’s getting to a place within the horse’s range with enough impulsion and enough balance that you can be a little long or a little deep and still be okay. Getting to within that range can be summed up in 4 steps:

1.) Establishing a canter that has enough impulsion that you have options at the jump. I’m not talking about going fast, but about having enough canter that if you’re a little long or a little deep, your horse can still get from one side to the other.

2.) Establishing a track to the fence. It’s important to be straight. It’s really tough to find a distance you trust when your horse’s front end and back end are on 2 different tracks.

3.) Maintaining your pace and track to the fence. Once you come off the turn, you shouldn’t need to make big adjustments in stride or straightness (which isn’t to say there’s no adjusting going on, but you shouldn’t feel like you need to gun for a big distance or choke the horse down to nothing if it’s going to be deep).

4.) Jumping the jump

I’d bet money that when you’re jumping around and it’s going well, you’re not getting to the same exact distance every single time, but you’re carrying enough impulsion and balance that you’re somewhere within this range and you’re confident that it’ll work. Your confidence gives the horse confidence. You know your horse best - maybe he really doesn’t like to get deep, so your range is a little smaller, or you need to support with your leg more at that spot, or maybe he’s weird and if you’re getting deep, you need to drop the contact - you and your trainer know his idiosyncrasies and your skill level.

I stand by everything I’ve said in this thread already, particularly regarding the importance of being physically strong and having a good foundation (and the benefit of reviewing videos of yourself), and I’m probably shouting into the wind with this post, but it was another thought. That could help. If you read it. And if my stick art actually posts looking the way it does in my preview box.

Oh be nice to the kid Emily

[Scribbler]

@Puffergrrl

Oh be nice to the kid Emily

Mmmmm, read the thread :). OP was getting rather defensive and going in circles on the issue.

[Doctor_sOrders]

@Puffergrrl

Oh be nice to the kid Emily

How is this not nice? I think this is a really well thought out post chalk full of good advice pertinent to the question the OP asked. I am amazed again and again how many good eggs keep coming back and spending tons of time answering questions and helping people that, in my personal opinion, really don’t deserve and/or appreciate the advice they are receiving.
This board teaches me patience daily.

[BayAreaRider]

https://www.worldofshowjumping.com/WoSJ-Exclusive-interviews/From-youngster-to-international-Grand-Prix-horse-Killer-Queen-VDM.html

"Deusser says, “When it comes to her character, she is very easy in the ring - she is really straight forward, she does not care…”

Just made me think of some of the comments here about how it was “boring” to ride a horse that knows it job and does it well. I think everyone wants a horse that knows its job and does it well so we as partners can be our best.

[rockonxox]

I appreciated @supershorty628 's post… reminders for me to keep in my mind when I’m jumping a course and stuck on being a perfectionist and down on myself vs riding the ride I have and setting up/balancing my horse properly. If OP doesn’t find it useful know that some of us did

[Scribbler]

@BayAreaRider

https://www.worldofshowjumping.com/WoSJ-Exclusive-interviews/From-youngster-to-international-Grand-Prix-horse-Killer-Queen-VDM.html

"Deusser says, “When it comes to her character, she is very easy in the ring - she is really straight forward, she does not care…”

Just made me think of some of the comments here about how it was “boring” to ride a horse that knows it job and does it well. I think everyone wants a horse that knows its job and does it well so we as partners can be our best.

As I said earlier I think this is a misconception of beginner and junior riders who don’t have much finesse yet. They think that riding a difficult horse makes them look like a “better rider.” Also subliminally when you have a difficult horse all your attention is on problem solving and you don’t get to develop finesse, plus you get to blame everything on the horse. Riding becomes a non-stop emergency situation.

More experienced riders cherish the subtlety of an easy horse and the communication especially if they have created that easy horse and have a communion with it.

Beginner riders may not have the finesse to communicate with a truly well schooled horse and can’t do anything in the saddle other than be a passenger. In their minds, it’s a choice between a “quiet well schooled horse” they associate with lesson string dead heads, and “problem” horses. The problem horses give them something obvious to work on (like staying alive). They can pride themselves on riding out a buck. When a good pro on the same horse wouldn’t even let it buck.

Also beginner riders often choose horses that are too much for them because they don’t feel secure on anything and can’t really tell the difference between a forward horse and a problem horse. Both scare them. Everything scares them.

I am not saying this is all true of the OP but I have certainly watched many many juniors and adult beginners and adult re riders making very bad choices in this regard and have thought a lot about how that happens.

When I was 14 and a medium beginner I made a choice to buy a horse I could ride then and there, and I made the same choice as a returning rider. I then created and solved problems in both horses but always felt safe on them. I never had Black Stallion or My Friend Flicka syndrome.

[SilverwoodGelfling]

I’m a younger adult rider, who started riding in high school, didn’t fall off the first several years, then fell off a lot my 4th summer, then nothing for awhile, and then about 8 months ago started coming off again, after a long break from riding, and still coming off occasionally as I rebuild my balance and strength. Recently I’ve had one fall caused by poor tack-attire and a spook combination and a couple falls over fences, just an off day, prior to that it was tack falling off, or schooling reluctant jumper ponies Pay attention to when/why you fall to see if there is a pattern that you and your trainer/coach/ mentor can work to correct

[Farosh]

Lol I feel like I always manage to stay on big jumps, bucks, spooks, spins, stops, and explosive events but fall off over the littlest things 😂
My favorite recent one was trotting around with my ottb mare who has had some intense moments in the past that I’ve always managed to handle just fine but she is generally very chill. She was super relaxed trotting around and I took a hand off my reins to scratch an itch and something spooked her while I wasn’t paying attention and she did the littlest jerk to the side and I tried to pull the rein I wasn’t holding to straighten her out and just blooped off the side.
On average I probably fall like 3 times a year but sometimes it’s definitely a lot more. Right now most of the horses I ride are pretty easy and I’m not really jumping anyone higher than 1.10m atm.

[chestnutmarebeware]

I’ve only skimmed all the responses, but I’ll mention something that I don’t believe has been specifically stated yet—riding a stopper, especially a dirty stopper, for any length of time is very likely to damage your jumping ability for a very long time, if not forever.

It makes you ride defensively, and in the back of your mind you’re always wondering a bit if the horse is actually going to jump the fence you’re pointing him at. It also makes you sit up and ride effectively (in self-defense), which is good, but in my experience you never really trust a jumping horse again.

I rode a lesson horse for a year or so as a teenager that was a bad stopper, and although I didn’t fall off more than a time or two, that lack of trust in any horse has followed me for my whole life. Since then, I only like to jump horses now that really take me to the jumps with enthusiasm because any other kind triggers that “is he going to jump, or just slam on the brakes?” flashback-like thinking.

[Wanderosa]

@Scribbler

I just noticed that OP says she has been riding 3 and a half years and is jumping 1.2 m.

That is a very short time to be riding and I would not expect any rider to have excellent problem solving skills at that point. If you want to jump big this early you need a good horse

I think…eh, I don’t know what to think. Never met anyone riding for 3 years waltzing around a 5’ course and I grew up in the company of some balls to the walls Irish. I guess it’s possible. You’d just fall off a lot, like the OP indicates she does.