How to deal with the perpetually fresh horse...

[TwoStrides]

Background… I’m an amateur who aged out a few years ago. About a year and a half ago, I bought an OTTB mare as a project. She is beautifully built (could pass as a warmblood cross), very cute mover, jumps a ten, and is very athletic (maybe too athletic…). All in all, she has a lot of potential.

As a junior I catch rode quite a bit and sat on all kinds of things, and this mare is only the 2nd or 3rd horse I’ve ever sat on that is just plain consistently FRESH to this degree. It is definitely the worst as the weather gets colder. I can ride her 6x a week, bring her out the 6th day and she’ll be snorting and spooking with her tail in the air like she’s been sitting in her stall untouched for a month. Half of me wants to ride her until I have a wet saddle pad and a humble horse, the other half of me doesn’t want to do that because I don’t want to create a bigger monster by making her super fit.

I think it’s been frustrating particularly because I can’t find a valid reason why she is so incredibly fresh so consistently. She gets ridden 5-6 days a week, gets turned out all night, and eats 1 pound of Purina senior morning and night. I’m not particularly worried about my safety, I can sit her spook and buck but it makes it extremely difficult to have any sort of productive ride where I can accomplish anything.

Although I’m not convinced it’s a hormonal problem, I think my next move is trying Regumate. I am also NOT a draw reins person, but it’s gotten pretty ridiculous… to the point where I’m considering schooling her in them to give me some more control when she’s fresh. Any other suggestions much appreciated!

[HLMom]

How old is she? Do you have a trainer riding her? (Not that it sounds like you need a trainer, given your experience, but it would give you an additional opinion on her behavior).

[EventerAJ]

Check for ulcers? Saddle fit? Source of pain?

Could it be the way she’s ridden, she’s just used to being wild, as if that’s what is expected of her? Do you ever go for quiet walks, allowing her to relax on the buckle? Often the more tense a horse is, a rider tends to shorten the reins and lock elbows, gripping, which just makes a horse hotter. Keep your leg on, but be soft in your arms, reward relaxed attitude. Pick a flatwork pattern, like fig8 or serpentine, with predictable circles, changes of bend, to engage the horse’s brain in a repetitive, boring way. Find every opportunity you can to let go, allowing horse to stretch down.

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[hoopoe]

what hay , what supplements, why the Senior concentrate?

an easy start would be to pull back on alfalfa, if that is what she eats. Try Timothy or grass mix

Cooling down the diet would be my start.

I would then get a professional saddle fitting.

Consider looking into a Dressage trainer for some guidance. I had a TB who if you rode him “too lightly” his mind would wander. This is the opposite thought of Eventer AJ

Dressage and the demands of figures and movement, focus her mind back to you. Could you be riding too much on the " loopy rein " autopilot" and not enough into the aids. Into the aids is not about a head set etc, it is about the communication loop between yourself and your horse. You can have the relaxed even balance of training level and still have the horse on the aids.

If she feels like she is adrift with a rider on her back, she may panic or protest. I agree a horse like this needs a lot of correct figure work to keep their focus inward and on the rider,

a wandering mind sees a demon at every opportunity

[TwoStrides]

@HLMom

How old is she? Do you have a trainer riding her? (Not that it sounds like you need a trainer, given your experience, but it would give you an additional opinion on her behavior).

She’s 9, but green for her age because the person I bought her from had a large breeding program and bred her, which of course made her lose 2 years of training.

Honestly… my trainer has seen all of her antics and I think for that reason, she isn’t too hot on the idea of getting on her. I asked for a training ride once because I really wanted to observe her behavior from the ground and as you said, get a second opinion, she said sure, but never followed up to schedule anything and nothing ever came of it. I’m not getting a lot of help in that way, but they are good horse people, the care is good, it’s within my budget and I am not familiar with the area so I’m hesitant to move her not knowing who is trustworthy in the area.

[TwoStrides]

@hoopoe

what hay , what supplements, why the Senior concentrate?

an easy start would be to pull back on alfalfa, if that is what she eats. Try Timothy or grass mix

Cooling down the diet would be my start.

I would then get a professional saddle fitting.

Consider looking into a Dressage trainer for some guidance. I had a TB who if you rode him “too lightly” his mind would wander. This is the opposite thought of Eventer AJ

Dressage and the demands of figures and movement, focus her mind back to you. Could you be riding too much on the " loopy rein " autopilot" and not enough into the aids. Into the aids is not about a head set etc, it is about the communication loop between yourself and your horse. You can have the relaxed even balance of training level and still have the horse on the aids.

If she feels like she is adrift with a rider on her back, she may panic or protest. I agree a horse like this needs a lot of correct figure work to keep their focus inward and on the rider,

a wandering mind sees a demon at every opportunity

She gets coastal hay, no supplements at the moment, and she eats the senior feed because at the farm I am boarding her at, the other option is Purina ultium, which I have had negative experiences with (tried it twice—my horses all dropped weight and got hot).

[Feliz]

I also own a horse that can be fairly lively and spooky and I just tell myself that some days I just have to exercise his body. I find I need to do at least 2 decent forward rides a week with either a lot of trotting and cantering (not in the arena unless it’s really wet) or hill work to stop the energy building up too much. Yes, it means he’s fit, but he seems to really need to move out at least once a week.

Definitely look at the physical stuff (turnout, feed, saddle, teeth etc) but I’d suggest an alternative approach - can you find a really good trainer who can teach her to relax and focus and teach you how to do it with her? Dare I say it - a cowboy/NH person. My horse was unrideable before he ended up at the NH trainer I bought him off - the trainer totally restarted him. He’s still a quirky, hot horse but he’s safe.

Regardless of the NH advice above I suspect you might need a different trainer for jumping - some are very good at working with hot horses and others aren’t. I’m currently working with a very well known trainer and he has nothing but good suggestions for managing and riding C (I do all the riding myself). Over the years I’ve tried a few different trainers and there are some who just don’t work well with us.

[enjoytheride]

You could have her bloodwork done and see if she’s lacking in any nutrients. It’s a long shot but a shortage of magnesium can make a horse spooky and reactive. It’s a pretty cheap supplement if that’s the case.

[ClaireBear_NZ]

I’ve got an OTTB who is similar although a dressage horse. I gallop him at the beach at least once a fortnight and it takes the tickle out of him.

[x]

Try 24/7 turn-out. It may make a difference.

[hoopoe]

even though she was a brood mare, I would then think about ulcers. Also mineral / electrolyte balances.

work ethic might need instilling, again she may be learning that when you throw in the buckets, shies and snorts, the rider backs off.

Again, I would probably get a good dressage trainer well versed in correct flat work and the art of getting the focus through correct and balanced communication.

[Annabelle123]

You very possibly have thought of these things or already are doing them, but here’s a few ideas:

I’d probably ditch the grain completely if you don’t need it to keep weight on. Senior feeds can be pretty high in calories, and therefore high in energy. If she’s fussy about not getting any grain when her stable mates are fed you can always give her an ‘offering’ of a 1/2 handful (we do this with our fat greedy ponies).

Again in terms of feeding, if you are concerned she might have ulcers (especially as a TB), a full nibble net all day might be a good call. Making sure you aren’t riding her on an empty stomach might also make a difference, so you could try letting her have at least 20-30 minutes of hay before you ride.

Are you working her hard enough during your rides? Like at least 45mins of proper work (not including walk warm-up and cool-down)? Some horses just need more exercise than others and need to be worked properly 5-6 days a week to stay sane. I wouldn’t worry too much about making her even more fit since any lack of fitness she has now isn’t really helping your case. The mental aspect of exercise is important too - pole work, trot patterns, serpentines, and transitions can be your friend here.

The fact that she’s a TB mare automatically makes me think ‘thin skinned and sensitive’. When it’s cold (especially if she’s clipped) it’s sometimes helpful to keep a wool cooler on until they are totally warmed up. For example, put the cooler on during grooming & tack up, and leave it on for 10-20 mins while warming up at the brisk, marching walk.

Have you tried putting her out on a lunge line before you ride? Sometimes they need 15-20 mins of being a hooligan on the lunge to get their hijinks out. Full disclosure: for some of them this works wonders, for others it just makes them into total lunatics.

Don’t worry about using the draw reins if you need them, particularly if they will help her stay focused and give you some more control as you work her down. You can always take them off part way through your ride if things are going well.

You didn’t mention if you’ve had much experience with TBs before or if you mainly rode WBs as a junior, but it’s worth remembering that she was bred as a racehorse with the primary goal of being able to RUN. Doesn’t mean you can’t make her more rideable, but sometimes it’s useful to help set realistic expectations. I’d suspect that at least some of that freshness is probably just in her blood.

[hunt_jumpfl]

I have a gelding the same age that came off the track as a 6 year old. He definitely fits the description of overly athletic. Even with a 6 day a week program, he isn’t the type of horse you just hop on and ride. For the first few days after a day off or when hauling out for a lesson he needs at least 15 minutes on the lunge line. He does turn into a fit monster pretty easily, but that’s still easier to manage than trying to keep sessions short or skipping the prep. I wish I had a good place to let him gallop and burn off the extra energy a few days a week, but he lives on a small farm and we have to cross a busy road to get to the local trail system. Definitely check out if she’s comfortable, but in my experience sometimes it comes down to trial and error of building the program with the amount of work that the particular horse needs and that may be more than a simple flatting 6 days a week.

[BeeHoney]

So, I have quite a few OTTBs at my farm and I would say that what you describe sounds pretty typical for a normal, healthy, OTTB mare. I’d be willing to bet that there’s nothing wrong with her physically, but that this is just her personality.

[Frogger]

As the owner of several thoroughbred mares over the years, including at present a 7-year-old chestnut thoroughbred jumper mare that is spooky and reactive (and also careful and fast), I can tell you that time and patience are the best/only ways I have found to “fix” tension and hotness --likes years.

These types of horses are not for everyone, but they are very rewarding in the end. You have to sit “chilly” as they say on the track but also continue to ask them to work. Some days this means starting out with 20 mins of walking and some days this means starting out as a human lunge-line cantering. With hot horses you have to let them go forward, but you can influence the way they go forward - sometimes complicated circles, sometimes simple straight lines.

Having a person on the ground that gives you confidence and that you trust is really key too. We are always working on ourselves and our horses! I am in my 40’s. A lot of the younger trainers are not familiar with these types. Don’t give up! You need someone who can ride this type to help you. And its awesome that you have decided to figure this type out! More young riders should get that experience. Our sport would be better for it.

Diet also matters – if you can skip the grain in the winter and feed more hay – do that – otherwise, maybe rice bran with added calcium (high fat) and vitamins but no sugar? Rice bran has really been key with my hot mares (and keeps them from losing too much weight but not as fractious). I’ve never had a horse get hot on alfalfa (but there are some out there). Alfalfa is nice for the ulcer issue too.

[Frogger]

As the owner of several thoroughbred mares over the years, including at present a 7-year-old chestnut thoroughbred jumper mare that is spooky and reactive (and also careful and fast), I can tell you that time and patience are the best/only ways I have found to “fix” tension and hotness --likes years.

These types of horses are not for everyone, but they are very rewarding in the end. You have to sit “chilly” as they say on the track but also continue to ask them to work. Some days this means starting out with 20 mins of walking and some days this means starting out as a human lunge-line cantering. With hot horses you have to let them go forward, but you can influence the way they go forward - sometimes complicated circles, sometimes simple straight lines.

Having a person on the ground that gives you confidence and that you trust is really key too. We are always working on ourselves and our horses! I am in my 40’s. A lot of the younger trainers are not familiar with these types. Don’t give up! You need someone who can ride this type to help you. And its awesome that you have decided to figure this type out! More young riders should get that experience. Our sport would be better for it.

Diet also matters – if you can skip the grain in the winter and feed more hay – do that – otherwise, maybe rice bran with added calcium (high fat) and vitamins but no sugar? Rice bran has really been key with my hot mares (and keeps them from losing too much weight but not as fractious). I’ve never had a horse get hot on alfalfa (but there are some out there). Alfalfa is nice for the ulcer issue too.

[rememberthenight]

2lbs of Senior a day isn’t getting her her vitamin and mineral package she needs. This will sound crazy, but my HA gelding is a whack a doodle when he is fed lightly. He is not a terrible keeper, but only being fed 2 lbs twice a day he was a fruit loop. I bumped him to 6lbs like the bag recommended and he settled much better.

I moved him over over to a ration balancer and he was even better. He will never been an easy horse, but he is manageable. And I avoid sugars and high NSCs.

I have seen some nutrition webinar that talked about horses getting frantic when missing missing out on protein and vit/min.

[Sunflower]

I have an OTTB that can be sharp and silly on some days. What has worked wonders is doing a little bit of groundwork. It gets him relaxed and focused, and really pay attention to me. 10 minutes does the trick. The ride that follows is soft, with a horse very tuned into me, and responsive but not sharp.

After a nice ride, he is very chilled out when we walk back to his pasture.

I feed grass hay ( as much as he wants) and flash-dried grass rather than hard feed. Taking him off hard feed actually has helped him maintain weight. Before he was a super hard keeper, especially on winter, getting three hard feeds a day plus free choice hay, plus whatever there was to snack on in turn out. I have read hard feed can cause or aggravate hind gut ulcers in some horses. Mine was never diagnosed, but he has thrived without the hard feed.

And with the ground work, he is the same horse whether I ride several days a week or twice a week. So, yes, I definitely second trying to find an NH person of a reputable sort who could help you with groundwork. I find it amazing what a difference it makes.

[BeeHoney]

I just want to point out that while everyone loves to blame bad behavior on the feeding program, research has not corroborated this POV. I would argue that trying to induce submission in a horse through underfeeding is a poor training technique. Many of the hotter breeds that are known for their fresher behavior are also horses that simply cannot maintain an appropriate nutritional status on a diet of grass hay, limited pasture, and senior feed.

[PonyPenny]

@TwoStrides

Honestly… my trainer has seen all of her antics and I think for that reason, she isn’t too hot on the idea of getting on her. I asked for a training ride once because I really wanted to observe her behavior from the ground and as you said, get a second opinion, she said sure, but never followed up to schedule anything and nothing ever came of it. I’m not getting a lot of help in that way, but they are good horse people, the care is good, it’s within my budget and I am not familiar with the area so I’m hesitant to move her not knowing who is trustworthy in the area.

I guess your definition of a trainer is different then mine. To have a green horse without training rides, doesn’t sound like much training. Have you thought about dressage training and also incorporating some lunge line training with side reins. Sounds like mare is not focusing on work which is different from tiring them out.