How to future-proof the horse industry

[dmveventer]

@lenapesadie

I work long hours in a competitive environment. Not an uncommon situation for young ish adult women earning enough to own a horse. There’s about 0 chance I could commit to an additional 14 hours of work per month on someone else’s schedule. I randomly need to work until midnight or the weekend or on holidays with no notice.

I was going to say the same thing. It’s not that barn chores are “too hard” it’s that there’s not a huge population of 20-something women who can afford to own a horse at all, let alone afford one with a job that allows the time and flexibility to do ride said horse, let alone do hours of barn chores on top of that. I bought my horse at 27 and I’m definitely on the young end of boarders at my barn (not counting those still supported by their parents). My job is generally pretty flexible but when it’s not, it’s not, and I need to be able to drop everything and work overtime or travel when needed. I’m established enough now that I could potentially carve out time for barn chores on top of everything, as long as I could do them exclusively on the weekends and get an exception for work travel, but that would come at the expense of my riding time and my social life, which already takes a back seat around my barn time. Full-care board works much better for my life even with the higher cost.

It’s rough out there for young adults today, between student loans and high costs of housing and stagnant wages in a lot of industries and the lingering effects of the pandemic economy. Then when you get past the broke 20’s stage a lot of women start having kids so while they might have the money their time goes to zero, leaving you drawing mainly from a population of older women whose kids are grown up so they finally have both the time and money. It has nothing to do with who is willing to do the work.

[sascha]

@Demerara_Stables

As a (training) barn owner, there is no way in hell I’d let people do self care. And I’m very picky and already have educated, considerate clients. I’ve been at barns with every level of care, from self through full training, and having that many cooks in the kitchen always makes for 1) a messy barn, 2) often an unsafe barn (so and so forgot to latch the gate/close the feed room/pick up after themselves in the aisleway), and 3) a place where things (all the way from sponges to tack and feed) go “missing.” Sure, it can work in small barns where everyone is on the same page, but I’ve found that there are very few people that have the same standards for safety and cleanliness that I do

There is the other side to that. Our self section is immaculate. Full/training sections? Not so much.

Unfortunately, it seems most believe the same as you so self-care barns of good quality are very hard to find.

Self care doesn’t always mean back yard hooligans. It can mean older, serious riders who have been through the wringer under other people’s substandard care and refuse to let the care of their horse fall to someone else again.

[lenapesadie]

Right! My girls in accounting are doing exactly zero extras during Q1. Nursing? Often long shifts and varying days out of the week with schedules subject to change. Finance? All work all the time.

[fivestrideline]

@lenapesadie

Not an uncommon situation for young ish adult women earning enough to own a horse. There’s about 0 chance I could commit to an additional 14 hours of work per month on someone else’s schedule

Same here. Overtime is required and unpredictable.

I’m lucky now that my barn is so close to my job. It wasn’t always and I was scraping barn time down to a minimum to make it work. I was getting to the barn after 9pm, often getting home close to midnight, and rarely made it out 5x a week. No way I could commit 14 extra hours a month on a barn schedule. I paid $$$$$ for full board, instead.

[MorganMaresVT]

@Demerara_Stables

I don’t see a way, in this country of lawsuits and idjits, that people will let others on their land to ride.

Come to Vermont! We have a deep history of land access and protections for land owners are built into state law. This is vital for encouraging outdoor recreation of all types, riding included.

Unfortunately people moving here from other places are threatening this ethos but it’s still a place where public access to private land is the norm.

[lenapesadie]

Yup. I would have stayed as a boarder if I had a different horse. My current situation at work is I don’t have time to breathe much less do anything else.

If I didn’t have horses at home, I’d never see them.

[frugalannie]

lenapesadie and dmeventer have ably defended the younger generation. Thank you for your perspectives. What our barn offers isn’t for everyone, especially parents of young children or those in jobs with unpredictable/ extreme time demands. And not everyone wants to be involved in the care and feeding of horses. But it offers a low cost option for those on a tight budget to own a horse and that’s hard to find.

I’m in my seventies with lots of physical issues, and I can manage barn chores if necessary. It still surprises me when a healthy younger person who rides feels that cleaning five stalls a few days a month is just too taxing physically (not talking time commitment here). As you pointed out dmveventer, I find that those in their late 20s and up are more likely to enjoy this particular situation and the 40-60 ish are superstars. Many of them have been responsible for horse care much of their lives and they think it’s easier having to do it only a few days a month. I’m not criticizing those who don’t want to participate in this kind of arrangement. I’m just trying to point out that I perceive a generational shift in what some are willing to do for the privilege of having a horse.

Or maybe I’m just a cranky old cow.

[BeeHoney]

Another great point about another cultural factor–our workplace expectation of long/excessive work hours if you “want to get ahead”–affects the viability of horses as a sport/hobby. Young people who are working hard to build their careers don’t have time to drive out to a barn, groom, tack up, ride, and then drive home. Going for a run or making a quick trip to the gym is a lot more viable.

I agree with others that people being willing to do self care or partial self care has less to do with how hardworking or committed people are, and a lot more do do with the demands of their jobs and families. Also, for most people, it’s more profitable for them to invest in their career rather than spend time doing farm work for reduced board. Lastly, many people don’t have the skills to effectively take care of horses.

[fivestrideline]

@BeeHoney

Also, for most people, it’s more profitable for them to invest in their career rather than spend time doing farm work for reduced board.

This is a huge factor. My overtime wage (heck, even my regular wage) is FAR beyond the hourly cut off of my board that a barn could pay. It makes infinitely more sense for someone like me to work at a “real” job and carve out an hour or two to actually ride the expensive animal.

That said, self care is a fabulous solution to a lot of people’s problems - it’s just not a solution for everyone. And blaming lack of horsey-work-ethic on the younger generations isn’t fair - it’s worth looking at WHY the older (often wealthier, more established, with more steady income and home life) people have the time and ability to work off board/self care.

I’d keep the horses at home if I could - but with an SO who likes to travel, two (over) full time jobs between us, and lacking generational wealth, it’s a stretch. For now, I board the horses at a backyard place and don’t get to ride if the weather sucks. It is what it is, but it certainly won’t be sustainable forever.

[lenapesadie]

No doubt self care / co op is an excellent option for those able to do so. I was merely pointing out that for many career women (or men) it’s simply not feasible or practical to pick up shifts at a barn to defray horse keeping costs. It makes more dollars and cents to work more at their primary job and pay for horse care.

[sascha]

@lenapesadie

it’s simply not feasible or practical to pick up shifts at a barn to defray horse keeping costs.

Honestly, done well, ime, it doesn’t save much money. It saves stress. That said, I’ve not done co-op only self care. Taking care of one or two to my standards is enough.

[Bogey2]

I am keeping my current boarders and their old horses for now…along with my retired horses. I stopped taking in new borders as stalls opened up. I can’t do the training I used to do and board does not cover enough of my expenses. Thankfully the farm is paid off but my taxes and insurance are crazy along with the cost of feed.
I keep seeing people looking for “cheap” board and in my area we can no longer do full board for less than 900.00 a month and that is not going to afford you anyone to help out and pay a fair wage.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

No industry is future-proof. I’m a writer and I remember how 10 years ago people would tell me that although I was poorly paid, people would always appreciate good writing and my work could never be outsourced. Now there’s lots of gleeful talk about AI can replace me.

Many years ago, I worked in the arts for next to nothing, “paying my dues,” which did not spoiler alert pay off. Like some others in this thread said about the horse industry, even though in theory the skills you learn in poorly paid fields can transfer to business, that doesn’t mean that work is really respected by managers who would rather see work in medicine/finance/etcetera. Also, just as a side note, some horse people in particular can be weird when employees leave them and don’t provide great references (even if the employee was not at fault).

I work with students and young professionals in a number of my jobs applying to various programs, and on a practical basis I would never advise them to go into the arts or equestrian industry, except as a side hobby they could possibly slowly build into a career, and to only leave a day job when they could afford to do so.

I appreciated the eloquent post of the professional whose FB post touched off this thread. It was thoughtful and heartfelt. But, very gently and respectfully, it does not sit well with me if your business (which frankly caters to very well-off people, more well-off than the average person) requires unpaid or poorly paid laborers to survive. This has been a longstanding problem in the horse world. I’ve been at barns with working students, and while two of the barns (FWIW, fairly well-heeled barns) were good about giving their hard-working opportunities to ride and at least some compensation but the lower-end barns (with the “kids don’t work today/no one wants to work attitude”) often shafted kids on promised lessons. Regardless, it’s not a sustainable model to ask young people to sacrifice earning potential and opportunities for long periods of time with minimal financial and career payoff.

Also, personally, I have found that the more poorly a job paid me, the worse I was treated. Anecdotally, I’m working with a kid as a tutor and he works at McDonald’s (a little unusual this day and age, where everyone is interning). He has been promoted to a training position and recently talked with me about negotiating with his manager for more time off to study for the SATs/better pay, which he said was an important business skill (I agree). A kid working at a barn wouldn’t even have those options and might be paid less and just get the “kids today” lecture.

It also doesn’t sit well with me to judge people because after a hard day of work, a long commute, and paying for board that they want to ride their horse rather than do barn chores. Or even gasp want to ride, go to the gym, have dinner with their families, and spend time with their children.

I lived in the UK for a bit, and I did not own a horse, but I know self-care livery is much more common there. I did ride at one barn while I was there. However, this was more than 20 years ago, and commutes in the UK as well as work schedules back then appeared to less rigid and restrictive than is common in the US (at least for the people doing it).

[lenapesadie]

@sascha

it doesn’t save much money. It saves stress

Like having mine at home. I do things on my schedule. I know exactly what kind of care they are receiving. I never worry about the arena being crowded. I pay through the nose for that privilege.

But I wouldn’t be able to do self care or co op at a place that wasn’t my home. I don’t have the bandwidth to commute to a barn (maybe if it was like 5 mins away). My work is, unfortunately, all consuming.

[lenapesadie]

@Impractical_Horsewoman

Or even gasp want to ride, go to the gym, have dinner with their families, and spend time with their children

Too right! It’s not some kind of equestrian failing to prioritize one’s human family.

[xQHDQ]

There are no easy answers.

One thing that has not been touched on yet is the business savvy of horse professionals. Most don’t have any. I’m sure there are more efficient ways to do things. I don’t have a business background, so I don’t know what they are, but here are some things I’ve thought about as an amateur and boarder. Do breeders/trainers know where the tipping point is for a young horse -where they can get the most money for the least amount of effort? Do barn owners/trainers know how many boarders vs. horses in training vs. their own sale horses makes the most sense economically? How many people does it take to do X job in Y amount of hours and what does that cost vs. doing the job in more/less hours? What’s a better way to feed/hay to save waste?

I would ask similar questions of our governing bodies? How can they reduce fees (for both competitors and show managers)?

Regardless, we all need to have a little more empathy for what each of us is going through to afford to do this, whether as a professional or amateur.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@sascha

There is the other side to that. Our self section is immaculate. Full/training sections? Not so much.

Unfortunately, it seems most believe the same as you so self-care barns of good quality are very hard to find.

Self care doesn’t always mean back yard hooligans. It can mean older, serious riders who have been through the wringer under other people’s substandard care and refuse to let the care of their horse fall to someone else again.

Preach it louder please! I’m a self-care person, always have been. NEVER, not one time, has anyone had to get on me about the care of my horse or my care of someone else’s property. My previous barn (which got sold) there was one other person who was even pickier than myself, on self care.
Do not get me started on what constituted ‘full care’…
OTOH, I am quite familiar with too many scenarios which have given self-care peeps a bad name. Those people shouldn’t own a stick horse, let alone a real one.

[dags]

@Amberley

Blaming WS for wanting $600/mo does nothing but make me dislike her instead of feeling sympathetic

To be fair, it was $600/wk + training + horse board. The camel-breaking straw was that while she was completely willing to pay living wages, she herself could not make one.

[BeeHoney]

@xQHDQ

One thing that has not been touched on yet is the business savvy of horse professionals. Most don’t have any.

That is becoming less and less true. Lesson programs are closing precisely because trainers are becoming more financially savvy and recognizing that this is not profitable. Boarding barns are closing because, again, barn owners are running their numbers and realizing that they are subsidizing other people’s horse habits or making peanuts compared to what they could be making if they invested their time and money in another business.

@Impractical_Horsewoman I appreciate your thoughtful post. That has long been a big issue in the horse industry–that it was/is fueled by the hard work of people not getting much in return (aka being taken advantage of). I see potential equine industry employees looking at other types of work that are safer, less physically demanding, and offer more in terms of advancement. People are making better decisions for themselves.

[sascha]

@lenapesadie

I don’t have the bandwidth to commute to a barn (maybe if it was like 5 mins away).

I get it. My commute is farther than I’d like, but, I am able to do it even though I don’t like it. A lot of people cannot make that 7-day a week commitment.