How to future-proof the horse industry

[4horses]

My main concern is the impact of climate change on hay and feed prices. It seems moving hay from one part to another is becoming more and more normal. Texas for example sends semi-trucks to Florida to buy round rolls because they don’t have enough to feed their animals. Florida buys hay from up north and has it trucked in. If hay prices have already doubled, what will they be in another 10-20 years?

I had a small lesson program and for the most part, I enjoyed giving lessons. The thing that beat me was the incredibly hot weather in the summer. I just didn’t want to be out there and then be down with heat exhaustion for the rest of the day. The new clients treated me like a McDonald’s drive through. Can we stop by and just show up for a lesson, with no phone call or notification? Or they would schedule a lesson as a new client and then no-show. Given the proximity to the interstate, I had many tourists who just wanted to drop in unannounced- many were happy to just get pictures with the horses. It is not easy to own a lesson barn.

The other issue I found was obesity can cause problems- Saddles that seem to fit just fine suddenly don’t fit so well when the person is on the larger side. And many times I simply could not accommodate larger riders given that my horses aren’t that big! When your lesson horse gets a sore back from a large bouncey beginner, I always felt obligated to give them time off. People would also get very offended if you asked their weight prior to scheduling them for a ride.

The kids were probably the best part. The adults, not so much. There are much easier ways to make a living. Another matter was how many lessons would I have to give, just to pay for an insurance policy covering my liability?

If I could clone myself, I could probably have made it work. But being a one person show is exhausting and while sometimes I had great employees and volunteers, other times, not so much. This was not a large scale lesson program by any means. The one person in this area with a large lesson program has another job supporting her and she just hires employees to handle the operation.

[pony_grandma]

I had a German dressage lady surprised our barn has dirt floors. But we had the basics - a good homemade outdoor arena, 3 pasture fields, 2 paddocks and run-in spaces, access to good ride-outs. I had a very astute Western trainer guy comment Wow your horses here, what a nice collection. They all have the same eye. Soft. Bright inquisitive. Vets and farriers respected us.

We did it on a paper dollar back then. It WAS possible. I couldn’t do it now.

[Demerara_Stables]

@BeeHoney

It’s not clear to me that there is an accurate link to the fanciness of a property and the welfare of the horses on it. Fancy barns can be rife with mismanagement or quite cruel to horses, and the veneer of a gorgeous facility makes people blind to it. And I’ve seen facilities that are very simple, but that are populated with healthy, well managed equids.

To be clear, I’m not saying there’s a link there either. “Fancy” doesn’t necessarily equal well maintained, and well maintained certainly doesn’t have to be fancy.

My point was, (and maybe I’m mis representing @endlessclimb’s point), if things are “dirty” and not maintained well, chances are the horses won’t be either. Old facilities and older (sound) horses are totally fine, but things should be safe, clean, and healthy not neglected.

[Rallycairn]

And your farm seems like a thriving paradise! So your children’s choices, while very understandable, are even sadder.

[Demerara_Stables]

Admittedly I just read the facebook post that started this thread, and I think this is the problem (emphasis mine):

“I think I charge an awful lot, and at the end of the day, I just feel awful about expecting people to pay SO much for a luxurious hobby.”

The best thing that happened to me was having to hire a person at my second facility. I can’t just do things for free - I have to pay someone if a horse needs hand walked or a wound needs dressing. I also had friends and family members tell me “stop feeling bad!” So I did. And you know what, people are HAPPY to pay a LOT for good care. I wouldn’t pay what I charge people, but they do, and that’s what matters. I also had a mentor tell me that I’m charging what it costs to run my facility - and everyone else isn’t charging enough. I think a lot of barn owners feel bad, but really you just have to stop feeling bad and make sure you can survive.

[lenapesadie]

@Demerara_Stables

And you know what, people are HAPPY to pay a LOT for good care

Louder for the people in the back.

[poltroon]

As far as fancy footing - yes, horses can be ridden on less. But I think if you are going to jump regularly or train in an arena, footing is one of those things that keeps horses sound and healthy longer. Being on a surface that is ALMOST regular is I think more dangerous for a horse than one that is clearly irregular (like a trail) and going around in circles on very hard ground is unrewarding for either horse or rider in my experience. And very dusty footing is also bad for both horse and rider lungs as well as again, taking a lot of the fun out of riding.

Good, solid facilities are expensive to build and maintain, there’s just no question. Although: some things that are “fancy” are not necessarily that horse-friendly. People are expensive, and they are more expensive now that we are understanding that we have to pay a living wage and the ridiculously high cost of American health insurance. For years, so many barns made themselves affordable by hiring undocumented labor under the table.

It’s easy to say we don’t need electronic scoreboards (and we don’t) but I doubt those are really the overwhelming cost driver.

[Bogey2]

I have the “underfoot” book for arena footing. I did the mason sand, green sawdust with the Mag chloride for dust control. It is on a 6 inch base of packed bluestone. I put it in over 20 years ago and add to it as needed. I have not had any injuries at any level to the dressage horses or school horses here over the years. I know another farm owner who does twice the amount of training I have done over the years with the same footing and she has had no injuries.

[quietann]

Yeah, my mom, who thought riding was too expensive and time consuming, told me at 17 that I could use one of the family cars to get to the barn, or drive to see my (first serious) boyfriend - but only one. I went for the boyfriend; I’m sure she ended up disappointed.

[hillary_again]

I’ve boarded for years. I have told a few barn owners that they are not charging enough. They look at me like you-know-what… But here is the deal: when they throw in the towel, since “it’s not worth it” - boarders like me don’t come out ahead. Please charge what you need to and be able to be there when I need boarding. Yes, it’s expensive. Hey, what about horses is not? Let me spend my money and have your service - that’s a business, and thanks for being in it!

[Demerara_Stables]

Yes, I have had people tell me that over the years as well, and for a long time I didn’t listen. But I’m trying to make my business a viable one and working through a lot of financial decisions for capital investments and staffing has really made the rubber meet the road and I’m thankful for it (and for people like you that call me out!).

[Eclectic_Horseman]

@quietann

Yeah, my mom, who thought riding was too expensive and time consuming, told me at 17 that I could use the family car to get to the barn, or drive to see my (first serious) boyfriend - but only one. I went for the boyfriend; I’m sure she ended up disappointed.

That’s funny. I was grounded for sneaking around to see my first serious boyfriend (he was 4 years older with a car). So I rode my horse over to his house and put it in his fenced in yard while we visited.

[Angela_Freda]

@poltroon

People are expensive, and they are more expensive now that we are understanding that we have to pay a living wage and the ridiculously high cost of American health insurance. For years, so many barns made themselves affordable by hiring undocumented labor under the table.

The alternative is doing some of the work “yourself” ( meaning the BO/BM/Trainer).
But in my experience that’s not what happens.

[Obsidian_Fire]

@endlessclimb

I think we have “classed” out the lower end barns, as well.

God forbid Suzie the 6 year old is taking lessons in a dirty cordura saddle in a grassy non-dragged “arena” with fencing that has some wear and tear.

God forbid someone rides their “forever two-foot” or “never above first level” horse in anything but $$$ GGT footing.

Nice things are nice - but we really need to come to a reality check with “wants” and “needs” for horses.

THIS. The woman who first gave me english lessons ran a thriving (at one point) lesson program. She had ponies and one or 2 horses for adults. The kids who came thru her program got to learn everything from grooming to tacking up to caring for the tack and then riding. Her ponies gave ONE lesson a day, period. They were not lame. They were loved, doted on, cared for.
However… the barn was (is) old. Not in the greatest shape. The arena leaks in the winter. It’s a bit dark, even with lights on. What I saw happen with her program is that “fancier” barns were pushing the kids faster, taking them to shows sooner, things like that. And the newer generation of parents bringing their kids to this barn succumbed to the “well if Jane is doing XYZ, how come Suzie isn’t also?” and after awhile the kids were less and less…
I felt badly for the instructor. She and her husband are some of the most generous people I’ve known. If you needed a job to afford your board/horse, she gave you one. Mucking stalls or other. I asked her once why, and she said “because everyone should be able to afford a horse.”

[Obsidian_Fire]

@FjordBCRF

When I get friends who have kids interested in horses, my advice is to always support the interest if you can and start them in lessons. Be prepared that it can get very expensive very quickly but things like showing are not required. Neither is owning. I don’t love saddle horse 4-H, but that is a lower cost option to get involved and learn without a huge financial commitment. A friend from college has a daughter that got bit by the bug a few years ago, and they seem to be navigating pretty well. Daughter has zero interest in showing (currently) so that helps a bit.

A good friend of mine has a niece who was interested. My friend had a Shetland pony she’d bought just for fun, she taught him to drive and saddle broke him. Niece learned to ride on the pony, my friend joined 4H as a leader and took niece to all the meetings, etc. One of my favorite memories of this was meeting at a local park for a trail ride. My friend and I on our 16H long legged horses and this little midget pony, lol. By golly we had a great time and that pony kept up very well. Toward the end he was dragging a little, walking kinda slow, my horse reached down with his nose and gave him a nudge on the backside, lol, pick up the pace dude!

We need more of this sort of thing.

[Jackie_Cochran]

I got my first horse in 1970. I couldn’t really afford him at all but my DH and I made it work somewhat. Most of my adult life I was horse poor.

I used to daydream about introducing my possible future grandchildren to the wonderful world of horses.

Now, decades later, I have 2 grandsons. I can no longer afford to own a horse (and I had 7 at one time for a while). My son and daughter-in-law live in a very high cost area of NC. There is absolutely no way that they could continue to live comfortably even if they were just paying for decent riding lessons at a decent stable. Owning a horse is so completely out of reach for them that I decided that my grandsons would NOT be introduced to the wonderful world of horses by me (though the eldest did get to ride a horse a few times.) Neither one inherited my mad love of horses which is very good for their future economic prosperity.

Now if I was vitally interested in one of them getting married to a woman from a family with more wealth than I have (and I feel like I am quite prosperous) I WOULD have invested in riding lessons for them at a really good stable IF they had shown any real interest in the art of horsemanship. But they were not interested in that and I am very content with their women and glad to have them as part of my family even though they are not into horses.

When the automobile and trucks conquered our roads and tractors took over the hard field work, many people prophesied that the only horses left in America in the future would be cow horses (they did not foresee ATVs), police horses, race horses, and the only people riding for pleasure would be the really, really rich people.

I am afraid that we are finally arriving at that point. Thanks to the little girls of America wanting their own pony it took over 60 years longer than originally prophesied, but with over 6 billion more people on Earth than there were when this dire equine forecast was written, I figured that it was just a matter of time.

I think that the most prosperous age for the common people in the history of our civilizations is coming to an end. People do not seem to realize that with a growing population inflation is inevitable, especially in a time of rising living standards. ALL of us Americans on this forum have greatly benefited from our earlier prosperity, just as most of us are suffering from a decades long inflation in the costs of owning a horse.

I am so glad I grabbed my happiness when I could, I am so incredibly fortunate in that. I RODE my horses!!!

I see no way to future-proof the horse industry as we know it. The demand for the cast off horses from breeding “programs” to become beloved riding horses will end because most people just won’t be able to afford it.

I am so glad I am not younger than I am. I, as a bank clerk without a college degree, could afford horses and I could ride horses hunt seat decades ago using decent tack.

We might well be the last generation of equestrians from non-elite families. Elite families of those who earn a lot of wealth, and upper class families, families who own land, have good stables, and can afford good horses, will have horses.

Owning a good riding horse will end up being out of reach financially for the vast majority of the population in this country. After reading these Forums for many years I have seen the cost of owning and maintaining a good horse skyrocket. To me right now buying a horse is an equivalent waste of family wealth as buying beachfront property yards from the ocean. Economics wise this is a total waste of resources for a family of moderate means. The vast majority of American families just cannot afford to buy their daughters a pony.

The upper middle class is not immune from this reality, keeping horses nowadays is insanely expensive and it does not look like it will get any cheaper in the future.

[sami-joe]

@4horses

My main concern is the impact of climate change on hay and feed prices.

Yes, plus the general unsustainability of the horse-related materials’ economy. A tangle of single use plastic explodes out of our 60-horse ranch’s dumpster every Wednesday morning. None of it gets recycled, not that much is, even when it is supposed to be. We cannot recycle our way out of our plastics nightmare, anyway.

To mention a single product: the horse industry has benefitted directly from 3M’s cover-up of hundreds of random blood samples tested in 1975 showing that their wonderful invention, coban, or as we call it VetWrap, and others, has contributed to many of the forever chemicals, PFOS and PFAS, that scientists see lately in every drop of blood and every water table.

Don’t get me started on horse blanket waterproofing products I’ve blithely used for a decade or more.

I won’t complicate this topic with my economic/political views, except to refer to this aged Current Event thread, wherein I asked whether anyone else has seen the horse industry as a Canary in the US Economic Coal Mine for about the last three decades.

While humans and horses survived multiple ice ages together and have likely relied on each in some form since the Pleistocene began, today, in a nation where we appear to value most the act of, as writer Marilynne Robinson says, “adding wealth to wealth,” I am not optimistic about the future of regular people or regular horses. I do my best to limit my various footprints and hoof prints, but it’s not remotely enough.

Here’s the NYer piece about 3M’s culpability. How 3M Discovered, Then Concealed, the Dangers of Forever Chemicals _ The New Yorker.pdf (3.0 MB)

ETA: Please advise if this crosses the politics line and I’ll delete,

[Angela_Freda]

@Jackie_Cochran

I am so glad I grabbed my happiness when I could, I am so incredibly fortunate in that. I RODE my horses!!!

This
I yearn for more, but it’s never going to be the same, in any way.
Things, every single thing, is more complicated, expensive and out of reach.

[FjordBCRF]

@sami-joe

To mention a single product: the horse industry has benefitted directly from 3M’s cover-up of hundreds of random blood samples tested in 1975 showing that their wonderful invention, coban, or as we call it VetWrap, and others, has contributed to many of the forever chemicals, PFOS and PFAS, that scientists see lately in every drop of blood and every water table.

Don’t get me started on horse blanket waterproofing products I’ve blithely used for a decade or more.

Coming back into horse ownership as an adult in 2020 after 12 years as a chemicals hazard classification/regulatory professional and now 6 years in corporate sustainability at a speciality chemicals company…let’s just say when I started reading labels/ingredients, I wondered if a lifetime exposure as a kid to touching and inhaling so many nasty’s didn’t help my autoimmune issues.

[sami-joe]

@FjordBCRF

after 12 years as a chemicals hazard classification/regulatory professional and now 6 years in corporate sustainability at a speciality chemicals company

I know that the US procedures for measuring the safety of novel retail and industrial chemicals/materials differ from those of countries w/ similar economic status. Maybe in a thread with more leeway about ideas for systemic solutions, you could tell a story or two.