How to get a powerful canter, without speed?

[mika0116]

@JB you and I are in complete agreement. If you read all of my comments, I suggest the same over poles only.

I would love to see a video of OP doing lines in striding asked for to a standard A hunter line on aforementioned horse. A horse already short at the standard distance will really struggle to leave it out in practice, especially over poles where there is even LESS distance on the backside covered by the horse. Especially one that appears unbalanced/ lazy enough to break to a trot while coursing?

I rode 3rd Level + I am very aware how to gain adjustability. Upcoming show for OP, should do the add step until they can consistently nail the set distance from the appropriate track and rhythm at home. A competent trainer would also teach inside leg to outside rein and this wouldn’t be news to a showing client and OP likely wouldn’t need to be asking the internet how to gain power at the canter.

I don’t even know how you learn to canter without inside leg - outside rein? Literally step 2 here: https://howtodressage.com/troubleshooting/canter-correct-leg-lead/

Again, not everyone who has horses has trainers, but if you’re actively showing hunters at an A show and wanting to place – a good start would be fully riding inside leg to outside rein under trainer supervision OR post videos and photos so people can accurately diagnose as best they can over the interwebs.

Hopefully the OP gets video and the show and we can see what comes of all this! I notice only a few people willing to post photos and videos of themselves to describe what they’re looking for advice on. I’m always willing to put myself out there!

I’ll see myself back to the eventing and dressage boards & only chime in non-hunter advice. I recommend a few dressage lessons and a spin the jumper ring to the OP.

[danhelm441]

@meupatdoes

The main way to add power without speed is to install a really good half halt that lives in your back, not in the reins. Then you can add power with your seat and leg but contain it with your back.

To develop this: work on getting your downward transitions without having to use your reins. So ask with your body, then if the horse doesnt listen (or hear you at first, if they aren’t trained to ‘listen’ to your back they wont hear it), THEN use your reins to say, “That meant WHOA.” Always ask with your back first and think of your reins as the enforcer, not the initial requestors.
You want to feel like your pace control is a pile of marbles in your bavk and if one of them slips out you just use the reins to put it back, but then you let go again. Work on getting enough positive tension in your core that all the marbles stay there.

I’m glad to hear you say this because this was my intuition as well. When I use the reins to regulate pace, I feel like I pull him off balance and put him on the forehand. It’s most noticeable in downward transitions, but I’m sure it happens in bigger->smaller canter transitions too.

Sitting deep and following the motion just a little slower makes a big difference. We schooled downward transitions today in just a neck rope and I could see it was making a big difference for us. He stays forward and doesn’t stall out, but also slows down without curling up. I just hope I have the coordination and presence of mind to do it correctly between jumps on a course.

[JB]

@danhelm441

When I use the reins to regulate pace, I feel like I pull him off balance and put him on the forehand. It’s most noticeable in downward transitions, but I’m sure it happens in bigger->smaller canter transitions too.

This is because you’re pulling energy backwards, he hollows his back, drops the base of his neck, and falls on his forehand

@danhelm441

Sitting deep and following the motion just a little slower makes a big difference.

Asking more more impulsion is about asking for more energy from behind, but then you contain that energy up front (bit, hackamore, neck rope) so that the horse’s frame compresses a little by the hind end “dropping” even a hair, the back lifting, the front end elevating a little because the neck is lifting up out of the withers.

It’s like putting your hand flat on a counter/table in front of a wall, and scooching your hand forward so your fingers touch the wall. Keep scooching your hand, and the goal is for your fingers to bend upward in the middle. That’s the general idea with the horse

[JB]

@danhelm441

It’s most noticeable in downward transitions,

All transitions are ridden forward. Ride forward into an upward transition and ride forward into a downward transition

Up trannies have your hands allowing the front end room to move (without throwing away contact or “contact”), down trannies are taking that energy and stopping it without sending it backwards, without pulling.

Having someone tell me “ride forward into the trot” (from a canter) was a real lightbulb moment.

[Clover5]

@JB Agree with this!

I want to let you know that “trannie” is a slur for transgender individuals. I know you’re using it as a shortening for ‘transition’, but it’s a bit of a shock to come across when you’re not expecting it

[JB]

I’ve been using “trannie” (transition) and “weaner” (weanling) for a really long time. I can’t help it if something more modern has taken it a different direction

[meupatdoes]

@JB You can’t help it if the word has an unintentional hurtful meaning now, but you can control if you continue to use the word knowing this information.

After reading Clover’s post, I was today years old when stopped using that word as slang for “transmission”.

[gertie06]

@danhelm441

but I feel like NF puts out a lot of dubious content.

Really? I’m a subscriber and nothing has seemed “dubious” to me so far. Granted I’ve only taken two classes, but neither of them felt questionable. What classes on there do you find iffy and why?

[S1969]

@meupatdoes

@JB You can’t help it if the word has an unintentional hurtful meaning now, but you can control if you continue to use the word knowing this information.

After reading Clover’s post, I was today years old when stopped using that word as slang for “transmission”.

Eh, I was going to say that word has been used for tranmission for longer than anything else. I’m not sure it’s going to go out of style as a result of some people using it as a slur against transgender people.

[JB]

@meupatdoes

@JB You can’t help it if the word has an unintentional hurtful meaning now, but you can control if you continue to use the word knowing this information.

I mean no disrespect to anyone at all, but I’m really not going to lose sleep if I continue to say trannie in the obvious context of transitions between or within gaits of a horse.

I doubt the auto community will stop saying it either.

“Ignorant” has been morphed into a bad word to mean someone is stupid, with far too many people remaining ignorant about its actual meaning (oh the irony!). Those who know it’s meaning can decipher between when it’s used rudely, and when it’s used properly. I’m not going to stop using that word either

Should we also stop using"colored horses"? Chink? Coon? Retard?

Context matters, not simply a word. It would be exhausting trying to keep up with “forbidden” words just because some small segment of a population has chosen to turn it into something else. The masses shouldn’t have to cater to the tiny minority who is looking for trouble.

[blue_heron]

Yes, you should stop using those words…

[S1969]

@blue_heron

Yes, you should stop using those words…

All of those words have a legitimate (non-derogatory) definition and usage. I think that’s the point.

[blue_heron]

You can stop using a slur for your cutesy shortening of a horse-related word, though.

[S1969]

@blue_heron

You can stop using a slur for your cutesy shortening of a horse-related word, though.

Sure. I just don’t think the automotive world will.

I’m not sure we have to always be offended when someone clearly isn’t being offensive.

[JB]

@blue_heron

Yes, you should stop using those words…

Are you going to always type out racoon, no truncation allowed ever? Coonhound - do they need to all change their entire breed names? Will you never say “nitrofuracin retards wound healing”? Do you expect the entire research world to never use “retard”? “Chink in the armor” - gap? What will you use for ignorant? Some find “oriental” to be offensive - we should all stop calling them “Oriental rugs”?

If someone can’t understand a word’s use in context, why should everyone else have to make sure they don’t speak anything that potentially has an alternative, made up, derogatory meaning especially when that context is a total 180 from the one at hand?

[danhelm441]

@gertie06

Really? I’m a subscriber and nothing has seemed “dubious” to me so far. Granted I’ve only taken two classes, but neither of them felt questionable. What classes on there do you find iffy and why?

I’m not a subscriber, so you’ll have to take everything I say about NF with a grain of salt! But I’ll occasionally go down NF YouTube rabbit holes. There’s nothing sketchy about the content, so that’s not what I mean by dubious. It just doesn’t seem substantive, and I feel like the value is what’s questionable. Maybe that’s by design though? So you subscribe to get anything actually educational?

I obviously still voluntarily go down the NF rabbit holes! But it’s more about the lifestyle. Puff pieces on pros at WEF, seeing what’s in their track trunk, what their barns look like, what their horses eat, etc. And ofc, I get bombarded with the IG ads. I like NF but I don’t seem to learn anything from all the free content I consume It’s like junk food for my brain.

[danhelm441]

@JB

If someone can’t understand a word’s use in context, why should everyone else have to make sure they don’t speak anything that potentially has an alternative, made up, derogatory meaning especially when that context is a total 180 from the one at hand?

It’s not that people don’t understand the word in context, it’s just that it’s so easy to avoid. It’s one thing to go out of your way to tiptoe around a synonym for an offensive term, but this is more like an example of going out of the way just to say it.

[findeight]

If I may digress back to the original topic…couple of thoughts.

Think of riding the collected canter, driving from the back, leg to hand canter like riding a merry go round horse. Sit down, hands up, shoulder back and think “up down up down up down up down” every stride. Whether for one or two strides before a down transition, a half dozen rolling back from an oxer to a vertical or riding up right to the base of that vertical, very briefly setting up a lead change or as an exercise around the rail. Up down up down hands up, shoulder back butt in the tack.

Overheard that from a leading Pony trainer teaching 6 to 8 year olds on school Ponies as an early introduction to the concept. Later heard it in clinic with an Olympian for Big Eq riders who should have had better understanding of basic theory and its execution given the level they were competing. That visualization worked remarkably well with both levels of riders it was described to.

That’s the elusive “feel” less competent trainers always tout but cant seem to teach to anybody anymore then they can teach a rider how to get a horse off the forehand, slow down or get a lead change. Said “trainers” are great at saying its wrong, rider needs to fix it but not telling a student how to fix it and/or teach the horse how to do it properly. Because they flat don’t know or do but cannot communicate it.

Perhaps OP might think of more educated instruction? As suggested upthread, a few Dressage oriented lessons, perhaps on a schoolmaster type might help OP enormously. Nothing like that Edison moment when the light bulb goes on…”ohhhh…THAT is what its supposed to feel/ look like. I GET IT”

Far as the strides, leaving out is not safe unless you like rotational falls or bellying into an oxer coming out of a line or combination. We teach over low heights but horses don’t forget what they learn early on and take those habits with them when fences go up. They are what we teach them to be.

Can only speak to shows I see regularly with judges I personally know and lines are moved in or out as fence heights go up or down. Not set in concrete at 12’ from poles to 3’ with judges encouraging riders to leave out strides.

Just food for thought.

[mika0116]

@findeight - you so delicately articulate my sentiments. Sometimes I am a blunt jerk, as I rather people be direct with me & really find constructive criticism helpful. Can you tell I like a trainer that is HARD on me?

Thank you from the bottom of my heart and agreed that OP would absolutely benefit from higher quality instruction, IMO.

[meupatdoes]

@danhelm441

It’s not that people don’t understand the word in context, it’s just that it’s so easy to avoid. It’s one thing to go out of your way to tiptoe around a synonym for an offensive term, but this is more like an example of going out of the way just to say it.

Exactly.

@JB, what would it really cost you to just say “transition”? There is literally no cost to you, but a proactive show of simple respect would mean a lot to trans COTH readers or trans/trans questioning folks in your own life.

Kindness, as they say, is free.