How to get western riders to wear helmets?

I become a vegetable from a truck wreck, falling in my kitchen or from a horse wreck my family knows that I do not want to burden- pull the plug. They respect it and would want the same for themselves. Quality of life not quantity.

I think your risk calculations are a bit off if you don’t have a realistic understanding of what is likely to happen to you in a wreck without a helmet on. You’re much more likely to end up seriously disabled, not so bad that anyone can “pull the plug.” Just unable to do anything without help. Possibly suffer serious mental and personality problems, too. And you’ll cost everyone an absolute fortune for your care- not just your family, but the entire health-care system.

And by the way, many of you think helmets can do far more than they can. They do not, for example, prevent concussions (you have only to look at the plight of NFL players with CTE to realize that). They will prevent skull fractures.

[QUOTE=SportArab;7812316]
And by the way, many of you think helmets can do far more than they can. They do not, for example, prevent concussions (you have only to look at the plight of NFL players with CTE to realize that). They will prevent skull fractures.[/QUOTE]

They probably prevent SOME concussions. And with NFL players there is more going on - they sustain an awful lot of sub-concussion trauma on a regular basis that seems to contribute to CTE. So there is enough complexity there that I would hesitate to use it as a comparison. (If you are riding in a way to get lots of sub-concussion trauma, with or without a helmet, and you aren’t riding rough stock, I suggest some riding lessons. :smiley: )

They are not magic force fields that protect you from everything, this is true. However, they do provide protection from a bunch of things and I have not seen compelling evidence that they cause or contribute to more issues than they prevent, so I personally am kind of baffled that anyone would choose not to wear one. (Similarly to a seat belt - in very specific circumstances a seat belt can actually cause injury or make a situation worse. But the vast majority of the time it improves your chances of escaping with no or minimal injuries, so we tell people to wear seat belts and ev have laws about it now.)

I really don’t understand people not making their kids wear helmets. I may vehemently disagree with you about your understanding of the risks such that you as an adult choose not to wear a helmet, but I don’t understand at all not making a kid wear one. The kid is not old enough to make the choice for him or herself (depending on age it may be something the kid can’t even understand properly to make the choice, due to brain development) and kids are notorious for doing stupid things and acting immortal (there’s that brain development stuff again) and the long term scenario for a kid who suffers a TBI who is not outright killed is pretty depressing - years and years of living with whatever problems the TBI causes?

(My opinion here is very colored by the fact that one of my housemates has all sorts of serious neurological problems as a result of a TBI from a car accident. I see how much it messes with her trying to lead a normal life - and she has recovered exceptionally well given how bad the initial injury was - and in terms of TBI survivors she’s probably “lucky” - she can perform daily care activities most of the time without help, she can’t drive but she can usually safely use public transit, etc. So she isn’t one of the TBI survivors who ends up stuck in a nursing home. But for all she CAN do, she still goes through a lot day to day, and there is plenty she can’t realistically do - like with the unpredictability of some of her less frequent but more severe problems, she would really struggle to live alone or hold down a normal 9-to-5 job that didn’t allow her to work from home at a moment’s notice. Plus she has issues like when she gets tired she has trouble communicating. It isn’t the worst thing I’ve known someone to live with, but it sure as heck isn’t any fun. If a helmet might help keep a kid from having to go through that? I’m sure as heck putting a helmet on said kid.) (Note that what I describe is after she is many years out from the injury. This is probably as good as it gets for her. Immediately after the injury, when she was ready for rehab, she had to do quite intense rehab. As I understand it she had to learn to speak again, and walk, and a number of other basic skills we take for granted.)

Wearing a helmet is second nature to me, I did, for a while feel sort of pressured to leave it off during western events, but no more. Following my accident I ride in a helmet and a vest everytime.

It isn’t just trying to prevent getting hurt again, for me it is about wiping your own butt! I couldn’t wipe for a while there, having broken collar bone and shoulder one side, wrist the other, and multiple broken and fractured ribs meant I was relying on others. I NEVER want to go there again, my family did not sign up to have to do that for me, so I will take all sorts of precautions not to become a burden on them, but I promised myself to take reasonable precautions. A helmet is first, then the vest, then listing for sale the horses that I have been wishing and hoping to get back on…my good old boy, and my new competition horse (when I find him) will be sufficient.

Wearing a helmet is second nature to me, I did, for a while feel sort of pressured to leave it off during western events, but no more. Following my accident I ride in a helmet and a vest everytime.

It isn’t just trying to prevent getting hurt again, for me it is about wiping your own butt! I couldn’t wipe for a while there, having broken collar bone and shoulder one side, wrist the other, and multiple broken and fractured ribs meant I was relying on others. I NEVER want to go there again, my family did not sign up to have to do that for me, so I will take all sorts of precautions not to become a burden on them, but I promised myself to take reasonable precautions. A helmet is first, then the vest, then listing for sale the horses that I have been wishing and hoping to get back on…my good old boy, and my new competition horse (when I find him) will be sufficient.

Never was too happy about my son riding rodeos with no helmet (along with most of the other kids) but the establishment didn’t push the issue. Guess the angels kicked in. :rolleyes:

It is not just western. I see a lot of English riders that just wear the caps which do not offer real protection.

I wear a helmet when jumping and showing but most of the other times I do not. Yes, I have had a bad concussion and should know better but it is not something I did when I first started riding so not part of my riding habit. I have spells when I do better then slack off.

I do make all of my under 18 students wear one but after that it is their choice. Most continue because it is ingrained to wear one.

easy enough to fix, no helmet no medical coverage for “free” at hospital. If you have no medical insurance ??? why should I pay for your not wanting to wear a helmet when I do?

same for motorcycles, etc. I must admit, I was taken a bit aback by hearing someone’s child wore a helmet taking skating lessons, but when you hit your head, you will be glad you had one

[QUOTE=kdow;7812333]
They probably prevent SOME concussions. And with NFL players there is more going on - they sustain an awful lot of sub-concussion trauma on a regular basis that seems to contribute to CTE. So there is enough complexity there that I would hesitate to use it as a comparison. (If you are riding in a way to get lots of sub-concussion trauma, with or without a helmet, and you aren’t riding rough stock, I suggest some riding lessons. :smiley: )

They are not magic force fields that protect you from everything, this is true. However, they do provide protection from a bunch of things and I have not seen compelling evidence that they cause or contribute to more issues than they prevent, so I personally am kind of baffled that anyone would choose not to wear one. (Similarly to a seat belt - in very specific circumstances a seat belt can actually cause injury or make a situation worse. But the vast majority of the time it improves your chances of escaping with no or minimal injuries, so we tell people to wear seat belts and ev have laws about it now.)

I really don’t understand people not making their kids wear helmets. I may vehemently disagree with you about your understanding of the risks such that you as an adult choose not to wear a helmet, but I don’t understand at all not making a kid wear one. The kid is not old enough to make the choice for him or herself (depending on age it may be something the kid can’t even understand properly to make the choice, due to brain development) and kids are notorious for doing stupid things and acting immortal (there’s that brain development stuff again) and the long term scenario for a kid who suffers a TBI who is not outright killed is pretty depressing - years and years of living with whatever problems the TBI causes?

(My opinion here is very colored by the fact that one of my housemates has all sorts of serious neurological problems as a result of a TBI from a car accident. I see how much it messes with her trying to lead a normal life - and she has recovered exceptionally well given how bad the initial injury was - and in terms of TBI survivors she’s probably “lucky” - she can perform daily care activities most of the time without help, she can’t drive but she can usually safely use public transit, etc. So she isn’t one of the TBI survivors who ends up stuck in a nursing home. But for all she CAN do, she still goes through a lot day to day, and there is plenty she can’t realistically do - like with the unpredictability of some of her less frequent but more severe problems, she would really struggle to live alone or hold down a normal 9-to-5 job that didn’t allow her to work from home at a moment’s notice. Plus she has issues like when she gets tired she has trouble communicating. It isn’t the worst thing I’ve known someone to live with, but it sure as heck isn’t any fun. If a helmet might help keep a kid from having to go through that? I’m sure as heck putting a helmet on said kid.) (Note that what I describe is after she is many years out from the injury. This is probably as good as it gets for her. Immediately after the injury, when she was ready for rehab, she had to do quite intense rehab. As I understand it she had to learn to speak again, and walk, and a number of other basic skills we take for granted.)[/QUOTE]

There is no question that brain injuries are horrible to deal with.

But we’re talking about helmets, and I can tell you that there is NO data showing that even those big football helmets prevent concussions. They prevent certain kinds of injuries - like skull fractures - but they don’t stop you from having concussions. You get a concussion because your brain is floating in fluid in your skull, like an egg yolk floats inside the shell. When you’re moving fast and suddenly stop, your brain gets slammed around in your skull. No protective gear worn on the head can prevent that.

[QUOTE=HannahsMom7;7812490]
easy enough to fix, no helmet no medical coverage for “free” at hospital. If you have no medical insurance ??? why should I pay for your not wanting to wear a helmet when I do?

same for motorcycles, etc. I must admit, I was taken a bit aback by hearing someone’s child wore a helmet taking skating lessons, but when you hit your head, you will be glad you had one[/QUOTE]

And why not, then, have rules taking away health coverage from those who 3-day-event or stadium jump? Those are dangerous sports. Nobody has to do them. Taking your logic to its conclusion, why insure anyone who does anything remotely dangerous (and btw, the most dangerous thing you do every day is get in your car).

[QUOTE=SportArab;7812645]
And why not, then, have rules taking away health coverage from those who 3-day-event or stadium jump? Those are dangerous sports. Nobody has to do them. Taking your logic to its conclusion, why insure anyone who does anything remotely dangerous (and btw, the most dangerous thing you do every day is get in your car).[/QUOTE]

No that is your logic taking it that way…

My logic says everything we do is a risk, and yes driving in your car to whatever dangerous sport you are going to partake in is probably the most hazardous part of your day, but taking reasonable precautions seems to be a sensible requirement.

My son skis, his insurance requires he wears a helmet, I believe he is only covered on marked runs as well.

Any Brits here? did they not introduce that you would have to pay for recovery is the emergency services were called to rescue from a stupid situation? So if you decided to go climb one of the UK’s peaks on a Sunday afternoon, in your house clothes and town shoes and got into trouble, you would be held at least partly responsible. If you had maps, hiking boots, waterproofs, survival kit etc, then you were OK. Now I get that this is open to all sorts of interpretation, but it is at least a step.

I vaguely remember the law being changed so motorcycle riders in the UK had to wear helmets, when seat belt laws were introduced, both caused major strife, until everyone got used to them.

[QUOTE=SportArab;7812083]
I don’t see why people NEED to get other people to do specific things. In my opinion, a person riding in a western saddle without a helmet is FAR safer than a helmeted rider in any type of English saddle. Maybe we should get everyone to ride in Western saddles?[/QUOTE]

If you truly believe that, then you are delusional. I have had FAR worse wrecks in a Western saddle than an English one. All of my broken bones came while riding Western, not English. Why? Because the reality is that the longer stirrups and forwardly placed fenders in Western saddles are actually LESS secure than the shorter stirrups and more balanced stirrup bar placement of English saddles. If I grab the horse’s mane or martingale neck strap to regain my balance, that “handle bar” is less likely to shift with the horse’s balance than the saddle horn, too.

Never mind the fact that, in my experience, slow footed/low action Western horses are significantly more likely to trip and fall with their riders than horses with more animation. And no rider, no matter how skilled, can prevent a horse from tripping over its own feet.

I’ve re-schooled my share of really rank horses and have gone to the ground with a few of them.

My one and only head injury was caused when I was standing beside the horse and was below where the helmet would have covered. I say “would have” because I never wore a helmet and still wouldn’t if all my back injuries (that a helmet can’t protect) would let me ride.

My serious neck injury was, without question, caused by the edge of my snowmobile helmet which I continued wearing, even after that fiasco.

If a person is of legal age, this to wear or not to wear a helmet should be “Freedom of Choice”.

If the person is not of legal age, they don’t have much in the way of rights anyway, so do what your parents tell you to do or what the horse show requirements are.

[QUOTE=SportArab;7812642]
There is no question that brain injuries are horrible to deal with.

But we’re talking about helmets, and I can tell you that there is NO data showing that even those big football helmets prevent concussions. They prevent certain kinds of injuries - like skull fractures - but they don’t stop you from having concussions. You get a concussion because your brain is floating in fluid in your skull, like an egg yolk floats inside the shell. When you’re moving fast and suddenly stop, your brain gets slammed around in your skull. No protective gear worn on the head can prevent that.[/QUOTE]

We are talking about brain injuries because that is the bit of you that your helmet is protecting. I agree that a helmet will not protect against all things and that you can still get a concussion while wearing a helmet. However it will protect against a decent variety of things and so far there is no study I am aware of to indicate that wearing a helmet makes you MORE likely to get a concussion, so I don’t get “well, they don’t protect against everything so I won’t wear one” as a logical idea.

I don’t want a concussion, I don’t want a skull fracture, I don’t even want superficial injuries to my head that a helmet would protect against, like a bad surface bruise or lacerations. Yes I take some risks just by riding to begin with, but I do what I can to manage those risks by using appropriate safety gear, maintaining tack, riding suitable horses, etc. etc. A helmet is part of appropriate safety gear, for me.

[QUOTE=Montanas_Girl;7812713]
If you truly believe that, then you are delusional. I have had FAR worse wrecks in a Western saddle than an English one. All of my broken bones came while riding Western, not English. Why? Because the reality is that the longer stirrups and forwardly placed fenders in Western saddles are actually LESS secure than the shorter stirrups and more balanced stirrup bar placement of English saddles. If I grab the horse’s mane or martingale neck strap to regain my balance, that “handle bar” is less likely to shift with the horse’s balance than the saddle horn, too.

Never mind the fact that, in my experience, slow footed/low action Western horses are significantly more likely to trip and fall with their riders than horses with more animation. And no rider, no matter how skilled, can prevent a horse from tripping over its own feet.[/QUOTE]

Not every western horse is slow footed or built downhill by any means.

What I have noted is that in Hunt Seat most riders fall off before the wreck becomes big, in Western, the parts that hold you in hold you in just long enough for it all to go to hell in a handbasket.

In my experience, you will be about as successful attempting to get a western rider (or any rider who does not wear a helmet) to wear a helmet as you will be trying to reason with a drunk. Even if your approach is kind, compassionate, and reasoned. People have their reasons for not wearing a helmet, and although they may seem pretty dumb to me, they are their reasons (don’t want to mess up my hair, if you wear a helmet in means your horse doesn’t behave, too hot, no one else wears one, I won’t get hurt etc etc). Wearing a helmet is probably akin to wearing a seat belt. Yes you could still die but it reduces your risk. I think most who don’t want to wear a helmet have not really thought out the whole TBI issue and the financial and emotional costs that not only they, but their loved ones will have to bear. Not to mention many of these folks do not have sufficient medical coverage and then who is paying? We are. I now get off my soap box.

I only push helmets on people that ride my horses. I made my children wear a riding helmet for the same reasons I held their hand crossing the street. They could not recognize the hazards.

Legal adults make their own choices, as I do.

[QUOTE=SportArab;7812642]
There is no question that brain injuries are horrible to deal with.

But we’re talking about helmets, and I can tell you that there is NO data showing that even those big football helmets prevent concussions. They prevent certain kinds of injuries - like skull fractures - but they don’t stop you from having concussions. You get a concussion because your brain is floating in fluid in your skull, like an egg yolk floats inside the shell. When you’re moving fast and suddenly stop, your brain gets slammed around in your skull. No protective gear worn on the head can prevent that.[/QUOTE]

True. We are lucky that as riders we typically don’t get slammed in the head with the frequency that football players do. If football players didn’t wear helmets, I would venture to say their head injuries would, in most cases, be far worse. Helmets absorb some of the impact which should help- though depending on the magnitude of the impact it may not do much- If they drop a 16 ton weight on your head, a helmet ain’t going to matter- you will just die. Not to say that we won’t encounter situations in which helmet or no we would be severely injured or die, but in many cases that helmet is really going to help.

If someone wanted to bang on your head with a hammer, or drop you head first onto the patio wouldn’t you choose to wear a helmet?

[QUOTE=Mukluk;7812902]
True. We are lucky that as riders we typically don’t get slammed in the head with the frequency that football players do. If football players didn’t wear helmets, I would venture to say their head injuries would, in most cases, be far worse. Helmets absorb some of the impact which should help- though depending on the magnitude of the impact it may not do much- If they drop a 16 ton weight on your head, a helmet ain’t going to matter- you will just die. Not to say that we won’t encounter situations in which helmet or no we would be severely injured or die, but in many cases that helmet is really going to help.

If someone wanted to bang on your head with a hammer, or drop you head first onto the patio wouldn’t you choose to wear a helmet?[/QUOTE]

If football players did not have the padding they could not hit as hard. I played rugby and we hit, tackled, and slammed each other but you can only hit so hard without pads.

Said differently…. Why do you think eggs come in a carton?