Agree. And the most expensive ____ [medicine/supplement/whatever] is the one they don’t get at all, or don’t get enough of to do the job.
I always thought that giving a horse a handful of something was a good way to create the routine, so that if/when you need to medicate the carrier is ‘familiar’… a lot like them being used to being in a stall. They do not need to be stalled all the time, but familiar enough that when/if they have to be, they can be.
I suppose they don’t need a carrier, unless of course you want the majority of horses eat their supplements. :lol: Even my chow hound Morgans and Arabs won’t eat supplements by themselves. Although I did know a QH mare that would eat a tab of bute out of your hand because she thought it was treat lol
Yes, great point. I have used beet pulp in the past as my carrier, and that makes a great hiding place for a lot of meds. I use alfalfa pellets now as I find that easier to increase (from a bulk/volume perspective) for some additional calories if/when needed, and a bit longer soaking will break them down to more mush.
I initially chose the TC Lite over the RB because I could see no reason that my IR mare needed 30% protein. NSC between the two is comparable (9.3 vs 9.8)… But I fail to see your reasoning here on the calorie count. Per Southern States, the TCL is 1150 kCal per lb and the TRB is 1266 kCal per lb. What dictates that a horse must be fed twice as much of the TCL than the RB?
While excess protein may not be a problem for a healthy horse, it can induce problems for the IR horse such as mine. See:
http://gettyequinenutrition.biz/Libr…stanthorse.htm
My girl gets 1 lb of TCL 1/2 cup of Farriers Formula per day, and bermuda hay. I was taking her out and hand grazing on primarily Fescue for about 30/40 mins a day but this proved to be a mistake and we are now recovering from a mild case of founder.
At any rate, am I missing something when I compare the two feeds?
1lb of TC30 is 136gm protein.
2lb of TCL (assuming a 1000lb horse) is 108gm
Not a big difference, not considering he probably needs 700gm, give or take, and generally in reality they need a bit more than the NRC recommendation to ensure they get enough usable protein, not just overall crude protein.
Per Southern States, the TCL is 1150 kCal per lb and the TRB is 1266 kCal per lb. What dictates that a horse must be fed twice as much of the TCL than the RB?
I was a bit high on the TCL calories, thanks for that. Close enough on the TC30.
TC Lite is fed at 1-2 pounds per 500lb body weight That means a 1000lb horse should get at least 2lb. If you’re only feeding 1lb because they don’t need the extra calories, then the TC30 is providing a whole lot more nutrition, with a pretty insignificant increase in calories.
While excess protein may not be a problem for a healthy horse, it can induce problems for the IR horse such as mine. See:
http://gettyequinenutrition.biz/Libr…stanthorse.htm
The difference in protein here is not even remotely on par with the excess Dr Getty is talking about. And in the context of feeding Bermuda hay, which I bet is fairly low in protein, including lysine, it’s a reasonable assumption that he needs MORE protein in his overall diet. More quality protein, usable amino acids, as opposed to the partially unusable crude protein.
My girl gets 1 lb of TCL 1/2 cup of Farriers Formula per day, and bermuda hay. I was taking her out and hand grazing on primarily Fescue for about 30/40 mins a day but this proved to be a mistake and we are now recovering from a mild case of founder.
At any rate, am I missing something when I compare the two feeds?
How much does she weigh? That’s really the missing number here, to make any sense of how much of what to feed.
The component most people miss when comparing feeds is comparing them on an as-fed basis. It’s not fair to just say a RB is too high in protein (30%) compared to, in this case, TC Lite at 12%, when the rate at which each should be fed isn’t taken into account.
That goes for any nutrient. RBs have a much higher nutrient % than other feeds because that’s the point of them - nutrient-dense products, for a lot of nutrition in a small package.
My girl is currently about 875 lbs (really a large pony) but she is about 30/40 lbs overweight. There are horse people, farriers and vets that say she shouldn’t be getting any grain at this time. Low NSC hay only and some recommend that the hay be soaked for 30 mins to lower the NSC even more. She also gets the Farriers Formula that contains 1.18% lysine among other nutrients needed for hoof and hair health.
The protein content of Bermuda can be all over the chart, from coming close to that of Alfalfa to just this side of worthless. It depends on soil condition, fertilize applied, and cutting time, I will admit that I have not had my hay tested as I am currently buying from a local feed company that sources their hay from different farmers so it would be like hitting a moving target. If I can find a single source for my hay, I will have it tested. For you to automatically assume that my hay is lacking anything is pure conjecture on your part that is not warranted at this time.
As to the amount of feed suggested by the manufacturer, they are written by sales staff. I have never fed suggested amounts to my horse or my dogs, but look at overall health and body condition to guide me. That is not to say I don’t read the labels or do my research on what I am feeding. I will admit that the mare’s current weight issue is totally my fault and I beat myself up daily for this. I refer to this as SOS or Stupid Owner Syndrome. Her new Cavallo boots just arrived and if they fit properly, her exercise routine will resume this weekend and we can get over this episode of exploding fat cells.
Thanks for her weight. The ratios of all these things still remains the same. For a pony that size, 3/4lb of a RB, any RB, would be about right, but even 1lb isn’t out of the question for some.
FF has .5 to 1gm lysine, depending on whether you’re doing a single or double dose. Not a lot.
The protein content of Bermuda can be all over the chart, from coming close to that of Alfalfa to just this side of worthless. It depends on soil condition, fertilize applied, and cutting time, I will admit that I have not had my hay tested as I am currently buying from a local feed company that sources their hay from different farmers so it would be like hitting a moving target. If I can find a single source for my hay, I will have it tested. For you to automatically assume that my hay is lacking anything is pure conjecture on your part that is not warranted at this time.
It WAS warranted in the context of what I was trying to explain to you, to give you some context for why I was making the suggestions and comments I was making. I made it clear I was making an assumption, not stating a fact.
According to EquiAnalytical, Bermuda can range from 8 to just under 14, and that’s from samples over the last 17 years. So yes, it CAN be borderline sufficient, and if all you have to go by is untested hay, you have to start somewhere with some assumptions.
As to the amount of feed suggested by the manufacturer, they are written by sales staff.
No. They are written based on the amount of nutrition provided for that horse - age, weight, work - based on what average forages tend to be like. That’s why some companies also vary the formulas for the region in which they are sold, as places where alfalfa is the common forage have different needs than areas were it’s grasses. That’s also why there are ranges of feeding rates to take into account some of the calorie needs.
I have never fed suggested amounts to my horse or my dogs, but look at overall health and body condition to guide me. That is not to say I don’t read the labels or do my research on what I am feeding. I will admit that the mare’s current weight issue is totally my fault and I beat myself up daily for this. I refer to this as SOS or Stupid Owner Syndrome. Her new Cavallo boots just arrived and if they fit properly, her exercise routine will resume this weekend and we can get over this episode of exploding fat cells.
Good weight does not mean adequately nourished, and that’s why the feed guidelines are based on what the horse should weigh. Not all horses can have even the minimal recommended amount because it’s too many calories, so if it’s a regular feed you drop to a Lite feed, if it’s a Lite feed already you drop to ration balancer, and below that, it’s a v/m supplement with adding lysine and methionine since almost none of those provide any of significance.
It’s one thing to have a forage analysis which says you could do just fine by feeding 1/2 the minimally recommended amount for a given horse. But you don’t. And your argument for high protein being a problem doesn’t really hold water here, unless and until you determine the hay you have is 14% protein, in which case that would be the thing to manage to lower that.
I’m not trying to change your mind on how you feed. I had a question as to why you chose what you did, and countered with what I’d do differently, and why, since it appeared you were just choosing to do what you’re doing based on incorrect information about the numbers (ie 30% protein is too high, which ignores the amount fed).
That’s all.
An 880lb pony in light work needs 559gm protein. Moderate is 614. Yours needs a bit less. You can go from there, but without a forage analysis, you’re guessing, and you have to assume something in order to decide what else to do.
@K8ee The minimum amount fed, of any feed product, has a lot to do with recommended amounts of important vitamins and minerals, as well as protein.
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