How to stop a dog fight? HELP

[QUOTE=howardh;5744321]
I have two bulldogs that have known each other since pups that have started to fight explosive out of the blue fights.

I don’t need advice on rehoming or trainers I am working on that just some tips on breaking them apart once the figt starts and I know the signs but sometimes they lock before I can diffuse it.

I am talking two 85 pound dogs in a death match and just me there. I know they get disoriented when held up but holding two dogs locked is quite a task.

I repeat HOLDING two dog up. I have thought about keeping a bucket of water handy but once you toss it do they back off or just regroup and charge again. I say this as I have broken them apart and they just recharge. I am scared one will kill the other HELP.[/QUOTE]

have you had these dogs done if not they are more likely to fight to get dominance over the other one

Um… why is a break stick a “dirty” secret? It’s an appropriate way to part 2 Bulldogs if they’re fighting (NO other breeds!). Everyone mentioning throwing water on them, yelling, choking them off, etc., has obviously never been involved in two Pit Bulls fighting… 99% of the time, that doesn’t work :wink:

And DA is a flaw? Excuse me?? LOL, that’s like saying a Lab chasing a ball is a flaw! DA is NOT a flaw in Bulldog breeds, it’s a perfectly acceptable trait and people should be well aware of this when they decide to have multiple dogs. Not sure why you’d want OP to euthanize her dogs… the only time I’d suggest that is if she just wasn’t willing to crate & rotate. I suppose euthanizing would be a better fate than being killed by the other dog.

Those suggesting rescues… nice thought but have fun getting two DA dogs into already flooded Bully breed rescues. It can’t hurt to email them if that’s an option OP wants to explore, but be prepared to be told they are full, because most (if not all) are.

I’ll post this link again: http://www.pbrc.net/rotate.html

It’s not that hard to adjust your life to crating & rotating. Your dogs and you will be MUCH happier for it!

Yes.

They are fine 99 percent of the time

Well, I would be a whole heck of a lot more concerned with that 1% of the time when they might kill or seriously injury one another.

and I do have a
Pro comoing to help me

If that pro didn’t tell you to keep them separated at all times, you should probably find another one.

but I have been alone twice when a fight happens and a 130 pound woman vs 190 lbs of bulldog sucks god bless adrenaline.

Adrenaline isn’t good enough. This just illustrates why the dogs need to be separated AT ALL TIMES until they can be re-homed to separate homes.

I am looking for help on how to BREAK UP THE FIGHT. For that moment in time when they are not separted…

But the fights don’t have to start in the first place! It’s like saying “I feed my horse 5 pounds of hay and 25 pounds of grain a day and never turn him out. I’m looking for suggestions for how to treat his ulcers when they inevitably flare up.” You have a preventable problem. PREVENT IT before you get yourself in even deeper above your head.

A responsible owner wouldn’t let this keep happening. They would separate the dogs and keep them separate at all times.

[quote=howardh;5744747]Just watched a you tube video on break sticks! Simple tent posts will do the trick, thanks to the person who mentioned those. That is what I was looking for.
[/quote]

This just has me fuming. As an animal owner, you have a responsibility to make sure your animals are safe and healthy. You have two dogs that you KNOW will fight, and you are only concerned with how to break up the fights when they happen. Don’t tell us they cannot possibly be separated b/c that is a load of manure. EVER allowing these two dogs to be together (or with other dogs for that matter) is completely and totally irresponsible.

I don’t care if they get along fine 99.9% of the time. YOU KNOW THEY WILL FIGHT AGAIN, yet you continue to let them be together. What happens when you CAN’T break up the fight next time?

I have such a hard time with someone who continues to put their animals in KNOWN dangerous situations for stupid reasons. There is no smart or rational reason to allow these dogs to be together ever again - unless you want them to fight.

Get sturdy crates and keep them separated ALL THE TIME.

[QUOTE=vacation1;5746426]

This whole subject makes me bitter. Who sold OP these dogs without giving her any idea how likely and how bad dog-aggression can be with them? And didn’t tell her about the “bully” world’s dirty little secret, the breaking stick? :mad: Of course, the OP decidedd to acquire two dogs of a breed she clearly didn’t know enough about. Exasperating. And sooner or later, someone is going to lose a dog. I would NOT rehome the other dog. If I couldn’t keep it, I’d euthanize. That is what you take on when you get a dog from a breed whose delusional breeders do not accept the concept that dog-aggression is a flaw. You are stuck with the responsibility of handling a dog which is extremely user-unfriendly in the way most people want to own a dog.[/QUOTE]

It is quite clear based on your post that you have little experience or knowledge with bully breeds / bulldogs.

  1. “Break sticks” are not a “dirty little secret.” I don’t even know what that means or what you’re implying. If you’re a responsible bully breed owner (whether that be pit bulls, Staffie Bulls, AmStaffs, American Bulldogs, OEBs, etc.) you have a break stick, or you know what one is/how they are properly used. Many times people associate “break sticks” with dog fighting, and they are quite incorrect. There are even several YouTube videos showing the proper use of a “break stick” and how to break up a fight between two bully breeds. However, “break sticks” are used in an emergency situation (aka: the two dogs that are normally separated…one got out of the owner’s control and went and attacked the other one.) Not in “well I know they’re going to attack each other at some point when they’re together, so I will just keep this handy.”

  2. Dog Aggression has never been a breed flaw with bully breeds. It has always been a breed trait. Persons should know this ahead of time before getting that cute little puppy or stocky bulldog pup. This is one of the many reasons why bullies are not breeds for everyone.

I can agree with you on one point though: this person obtaining two same-sex bully breed pups/dogs. If you have a breed or a dog from a breed category in which Dog Aggression is a trait, why add fuel to the fire and put two of the same-sexes together?

If the OP is willing to work with a behaviorist or behaviorist/trainer experienced with bully breeds and can properly instruct the OP on little triggers, etc. that can lead to a fight, and if the OP is willing to practice “crate and rotate,” then it may work out.

If the OP is not willing to do the things above, then I would recommend the OP enlist the assistance of a bully breed rescue for placement of the dog. I don’t mean ask them to take the dog because 99% of the time…they’re going to be full. You can, however, foster the dog at your own home (still crate and rotate) and have the rescue filter out potential adopters for the dog by their set of requirements.

It is of the utmost importance to keep them separated.

Phaxxtan,

How nice of you to assume that I am happily letting these dogs run around now. It is not the case. I am a responsible per owner, I LIKE BULLIES and have had them before and have not had this issue. Now that it has happened multiple times the dogs are separated, but excuse me for wanting a few tips on how to break them apart or any dog apart as we live in the country and I have had dogs wander into our place and I would like to be armed with some info or tools to help me out if I need it and in a perfect worked these two dog will never be together again but if they do by some accident (like someone having one out me coming home with the other and not knowing it…)
I am very glad someone told me about the break stick.

I have contacted and have an appointment with a trainer and have ordered muzzles as well. I do not want to give up on these dogs yet as I am very worried about adopting one out to a bad home. bully rescues are RESCUES and I highly doubt that they have the time or resources to check up in all their adoptees. I would rather pursue finding a home for one myself as I don’t think it is much of a life to be in a crate. someone I know that I could keep in contact with to make sure it is working…

The dogs are separated now thanks to all who have had this experience and quite vehemently gave that advice. I get it.

I also completely hate when people generalize about an entire breed. As I said, I have had bullies in the past that have happily co existed. Same sex bullies.

This is like saying all Arabian horses are crazy…

I reread my post and I didn’t want to mislead, I have HAD one of the dogs for three years and he was very happily playing with the pup that I got by the way because someone was dumping this dog because they HAD A BABY and didn’t have time for it, so please do not preach to me about responsible pet ownership.

Thank you for coming back and clarifying some of the questions. I would add that if it is going to be hard to keep them separate, contact a Bully rescue. A good rescue will do all they can to find a good home. The reputable Bully rescues do home checks and follow ups. They are stewards of the breed and do not want bad things to happen to the breed. A good Bully rescue goes way beyond a regular breed rescue. They make it harder to adopt just to make sure the dogs land in a good place. If you cannot keep both dogs check to see if a rescue can do a courtesy listing for you and have them do the leg work on re-homing. They would probably want a donation for that, but you can rest assured they will find a good home. If you are going to keep both, you are on the right track by getting muzzles and other devices just in case. The break stick is a good thing to have when you have any large breed of dog that could/will fight with another in your home or a stray that wanders on your property, the C02 extinguisher is another good thing to have on hand. I have a Bull Mastiff and a Rottie, have had Rotties for years, I feel it’s best to be prepared and never have to use the equipment than not to have it.

When people told you to separate the dogs, you asked if that was the only solution and stated that the dogs are fine 99% of the time. I don’t recall reading (and sorry if I missed it) that you separated the dogs until this last post of yours. So yes, I assumed you hadn’t separated them. If I’m wrong, that’s great - because these dogs shouldn’t be together ever. However, you gave the impression that you didn’t want to / wouldn’t separate the dogs and just said that they are separated now based on the strong advice you got here… so I don’t think I was so far off base in my assumption that you hadn’t been keeping them separate prior to posting here.

I’m glad the dogs are separated now and wish you the best of luck.

Not only will they get better at fighting (and thus harder and harder to break up), they get better very quickly. Things can go from bad to horrible in the span of one accidental “We’re both home, let’s see how they do together” instance.

Says the person who’s knee still hurts 8 months after a dog bite from breaking up 2 boxers (1 newly adopted) intent on killing each other. 3 ER visits total for that (1 for each dog and 1 for me) mistake. We were lucky that no one got more seriously injured and that our formerly non-DA/very friendly boxer is getting over his fear/hatred of other dogs.

I may be stating the obvious here but rescues are not magical and seem to be idealized a little bit here. I worked for one of the better ones in my state and you better believe we were not doing home check ups every 6 months…there is not the staff, time, or money. Dogs we adopted out DID sometimes come back abused. DID sometimes come back neglected. WERE dumped at the pound. And that was AFTER references, vet checks and having to meet with an adoption counselor before meeting the dogs…they are not miracle workers. And at least the part of the country I’m in, theyre all FULL TO HELL AND BACK. I think you can find a private home just as effectively as a rescue can…most will let you cross post and advertise because they are HAPPY not to have to take one more dog in they don’t have space/a foster home for. As wonderful as Bully rescues are, and as a bully lover/owner–its HARD right now to find a home for a known DA bully breed.

[QUOTE=howardh;5746898]

bully rescues are RESCUES and I highly doubt that they have the time or resources to check up in all their adoptees. I would rather pursue finding a home for one myself as I don’t think it is much of a life to be in a crate. [/QUOTE]

I merely suggested contacting one to help you screen potential adopters. I did not say “take them to a rescue.” YOU would have the dog at your home, and YOU could check up on the dog after it’s been adopted; however, the rescue would help screen people through various means.

Chances are if someone has ill-intentions for a dog, they tend to shy away from an owner that says “so-and-so rescue will be helping to screen potential adopters.” And even the most “awesome” and “perfect” adopters can sometimes be not so awesome and not so perfect just to get a specific type of dog or dog breed they want. I would not recommend trying to find a rescue to take your dog, however (as I think you said you weren’t going to pursue that anyways.) They ARE full to the gills, and many state laws prohibit rescue groups from accepting “owner turn-ins” without the animal first being brought to Animal Control.

I don’t know with what rescue you have worked or known in the past, but the bully rescue with whom I have volunteered for the past three years checks in on ALL of their adoptees. Then again, they don’t overload themselves with dogs, and wait to find the “perfect” home for their dogs instead of okay you meet these criteria, when do you want to pick them up?

A break stick is an invaluable tool for bully owners and owners that may have random dogs wandering their property as well. Just be sure to learn how to use it properly (aka - how to approach two dogs fighting without getting hurt.)

Best of luck with your OEBs. I much prefer them over English Bulldogs and the health issues they bring, and they (OEBs) are very popular in our area.

The OP asked for help on breaking up a dog fight. This thread has disintegrated into one of COTH’s inevitable pile-up with a lot of assumptions and anger going on.

I’m glad the OP is going to keep them separated from now on.

I had chows for fifteen years, and I know accidents can still happen despite the best intentions, so I understand wanting to know how to break up a dog fight alone.

If you find out, let me know.:lol:

I always seemed to wind up with the scruff of one dog wrapped in one fist and the scruff of the other dog in the other fist, holding them apart as long as possible, hoping help would show up before the inevitable occurred.

Once, I got creative and covered the nostrils of one dog and stuck a garden hose going full blast down its throat. When it lost consciousness, it let go of the other dog. The half-drowned dog was fine but sadly the other died a few days later from its wounds.

My Dad used to throw a heavy army blanket over one dog and, holding the leading edge tightly between his hands, jerk the fabric down between the combatant’s faces. He could get them to let go for a nanosecond, during which time he’d wrap the one dog completely in the blanket, yank it off its feet, and fling it somewhere the other dog couldn’t get to it.

Yeah. This is why I have collies (and a foundling Brittany) nao.:yes: I’ve used up my adrenaline for a lifetime, thx.:lol:

[QUOTE=diffuse01;5746778]
Um… why is a break stick a “dirty” secret?..And DA is a flaw? Excuse me?? LOL, that’s like saying a Lab chasing a ball is a flaw! DA is NOT a flaw in Bulldog breeds, it’s a perfectly acceptable trait and people should be well aware of this when they decide to have multiple dogs.[/QUOTE]

Um, I call them a dirty little secret because virtually all “bully” people have remained conspicuously silent on the existence of specialized objects designed to pry open their dogs’ mouths in event of an attack/fight, even as they loudly scream for public acceptance of their pets and for everyone else to go save one from a shelter. Presumably, this silence is because the very existence of such a tool calls into question their claims that “pibbles” are just like labs.

Your DA comparison is bizarre. A Lab’s ball obsession, a collie’s herding, even a terrier’s hunting instinct - none of these can even begin to compare to an instinct to slaughter your own species. DA was a horribly cruel, misguided trait to select for. There is no useful application for it; it doesn’t make any sense unless you are a dog fighter. The sooner it’s bred down or completely out of bulldogs, the better for everyone.

I have too much experience in having my dogs attacked by them. DA isn’t a breed trait in the modern world; it’s a death sentence. On a good day, that means the aggressor is euthanized. On most days, it means some good dog is torn apart by a genetically doomed animal.

we’re heading for a trainwreck i’m afraid.

the stick is used to breakup any dog fight, not just that between bully breed dogs. it’s a tool regardless if you’re dealing with two mastiffs or two labs.

This breed is KNOWN for having same sex aggression, it’s even written into the breed standard.

If you are trying to keep two dogs of the same sex together and they have started fighting, I can guarantee you will NOT ever stop the fighting, no matter how much training you do.

[QUOTE=vacation1;5749178]
Um, I call them a dirty little secret because virtually all “bully” people have remained conspicuously silent on the existence of specialized objects designed to pry open their dogs’ mouths in event of an attack/fight, even as they loudly scream for public acceptance of their pets and for everyone else to go save one from a shelter. Presumably, this silence is because the very existence of such a tool calls into question their claims that “pibbles” are just like labs.

Your DA comparison is bizarre. A Lab’s ball obsession, a collie’s herding, even a terrier’s hunting instinct - none of these can even begin to compare to an instinct to slaughter your own species. DA was a horribly cruel, misguided trait to select for. There is no useful application for it; it doesn’t make any sense unless you are a dog fighter. The sooner it’s bred down or completely out of bulldogs, the better for everyone.

I have too much experience in having my dogs attacked by them. DA isn’t a breed trait in the modern world; it’s a death sentence. On a good day, that means the aggressor is euthanized. On most days, it means some good dog is torn apart by a genetically doomed animal.[/QUOTE]

Lots of purebred dogs have what one would consider “undesirable traits” for use as family pets. So much human aggression still exists in certain breeds- growing up, my neighbor’s GSD (retired police dog) scaled their 8 foot privacy fence THREE TIMES and bit children playing basketball in their own backyard court. THREE TIMES this dog viciously attacked children for absolutely no reason, and because the owner was a relatively high ranking police official, the dog was never destroyed. It lived for many years regularly escaping its enclosure and scaring the living crap out of everyone that had to tolerate its existence. I think some people threw a block party the day that dog died.

I have a APBT mix, and you know what the worst, most stressful part of owning her is? No, it’s not her terrible dog aggression (which she’s never, not once displayed), or her unpredictable nature around other animals. It’s EVERYONE ELSE that we encounter on walks or in daily life. You have NO IDEA how stressful it is to be on a walk and see some clueless idiot walking their dog on a 25’ flexi leash yelling “OH DON’T WORRY, KUJO IS FRIENDLY!! HE JUST WANTS TO SAY HI!” while the thing is straining at the end of the lead, snarling and choking itself trying to get to me and my well-behaved, automatically-sits-and-stays-in-those-situations dog. You’d be shocked how many people think it’s just fine to let their dogs freely approach mine in a questionable fashion because THEY THINK THEIR DOG IS NICE. Nevermind the fact that their dog is obviously acting aggressively or that they cannot possibly have any control of it from the other end of that pitiful flexi lead…

The worst part is, I KNOW that if my dog ever acted the way any of these dogs act, she would be deemed “vicious, out of control, unstable, a menace, etc.”. Responsible bully owners need to work ten times harder at obedience, control, and training than any other dog owners because in the event of a fight, the bully ALWAYS gets blamed. And so many people LOVE to read about it. A friend’s leashed bully recently grabbed and shook a LOOSE, AGGRESSIVE chihuahua (there are several eyewitnesses on record at this point) on a public sidewalk in my hometown and the chihuahua’s owner is taking her to court to sue for vet bills and “emotional damages”. Sadly, despite the fact that the plaintiff was clearly breaking leash/containment laws and putting her own dog in danger, the case is quickly becoming about how “vicious” the pit bull is. And she will probably recover money in court.

There are irresponsible owners of every breed. The OP, despite having owned “bullies” in the past, clearly has A LOT to learn (and honestly, leaves a lot to be desired in a bully owner). But a lot of this is turning into “Them vs. Us”. Just because a bunch of people on the street have no common sense when it comes to interacting with strange dogs, or because someone feels their dog is not a threat to the public because it’s small, or because certain people have extremely jaded views of their leash aggressive dogs does NOT mean that responsible owners of bully breeds should have to suffer.

well put frenchfrytheeqhorse.

as a bully owner, i’m keenly aware that my dog will be getting scrutinized when something happens. i’ve had to defend my dog from loose labs and other “friendly” breeds on many occasions and it’s not b/c she can’t take care of herself, it’s b/c if she does, no one will remember who started that fight. all they’ll talk about is yet another case of DA by a bully breed dog… :no:

friend’s german shepherd was attacked once by a yorki while walking on a public sidewalk. her mother was bit by the yorki while separating the dogs. she filed a complaint with the police department and the owner got fined but had it not been for the bite, i have a feeling that cops would laugh at her if she tried to file a complaint b/c a loose yorki attacked her german shepherd.

I don’t think there has to be an “us vs. them” mentality on either side here. I love bullies and have found that many of them make better family pets than a LOT of other “family” breeds - they are often far more tolerant of children and make goofy happy companions.

Fact: many many bully breeds have issues with DA.

Fact: many individual bullies are the most wonderful pets in the world.

Fact: many non-bully breeds also have DA.

Fact: many non-bully breeds have bitten humans more than once (I’ve actually met far more non-bullies that have made me nervous to be around.)

Fact: BECAUSE bully breeds have been knowingly bred by jerks to have increased DA, owners must always always be hyper aware that it’s an issue.

I find the negative bias towards bullies annoying even as a non-bully owner. Still, a LOT of bullies have really bad DA or develop it as they get older. Because of that, owners must be prepared and be extra diligent. It’s annoying, but it’s a necessary part of owning a bully. That’s why I think it’s important that rescues are very careful about who they adopt to. Education is KEY.

*** More on topic: Now that the OP knows it’s a problem, she has a couple of good solutions: crate and rotate + work with a good trainer or rehome responsibly.

There is also a spray called “Direct Stop” that is sometimes helpful in getting the dogs to separate enough to drag them away from each other. Could be good to have on hand in case they get out together again.

[QUOTE=vacation1;5749178]

I have too much experience in having my dogs attacked by them. DA isn’t a breed trait in the modern world; it’s a death sentence. On a good day, that means the aggressor is euthanized. On most days, it means some good dog is torn apart by a genetically doomed animal.[/QUOTE]

I recommend you contacting the breed clubs then and having them change the dogs’ breed standards and rewrite their history as well. As a bully breed owner, trainer, and volunteer with a legitimate bully rescue, we, as responsible bully owners, are keenly aware of our dogs’ history as well as their breed traits. We also learn how to manage them to prevent any incidents.

Just to clarify: DA and HA are not the same thing. HA is most definitely a breed flaw, and most definitely HA dogs (dogs with a wholly unpredictable temperament, no triggers, that will randomly attack a human for no provoked reason) are euthanized: as they should be.