How to tackle scratches?

[JB]

the sauerkraut deal is just to drain all the liquid, so you have just the “pulp” left (ie the fermented cabbage). You pack that around the leg (which you couldn’t do if it had all the liquid) and then wrap.

It’s an old remedy for scratches, I knew about it 25 years ago. Not sure how common it is anymore with all the new products, but it’s cheap! You generally leave the wrap on for 2-3 days (so wrap properly and well!).

The moisture, the pre/probiotics, all those things that are good about fermented foods, can do a good job softening scabs and healing skin

[cnd8]

JB, you mentioned the idea above about a ration balancer since he’s getting less than the required serving size of ProElite Senior. I started researching the different brands available in my area and came across Triple Crown Balancer. The product info sheet claims only .5-1.0 lbs per day is needed to balance diets in which horses are being fed below the recommended feeding rates. Compared to ProElite Grass advantage, that would require 1-2 lbs per day, I think this looks like it would work out more economical because it would last so much longer. What do you think?

[JB]

PE (and Tribute, and some others) does have a higher feeding rate than most. TC is pretty typical in the serving size. So yes, TC is more economical than those whose min feed rate is higher.

If we look at the copper and zinc for the 2, TC Balancer is 300ppm and 1000ppm respectively, and PE Grass Advantage is 200ppm and 600ppm respectively. So it’s not quite a 1:1 comparison where 1lb TC Balancer = 2lb PE Ga, but you can start to see the differences on an equal amount fed basis

[cnd8]

Thank you so much!

[Angela_Freda]

Yes, the cabbage, minus the liquid.

[Simkie]

To counterpoint:

Here’s my typical fe:cu:zn:mn this year. Hay is tested. Water has been tested and does not contribute here. (Have you tested the water? It absolutely can contribute.) Horse is also on pasture for 8 ish hours a day which is not tested or counted here due to the variability in that.

This is where we go at this time:

I’m actually facing this right now. One horse has finally out grown his lanky teenager phase, and his grain ration dropped this year because of that. He wasn’t one that historically needed extra supplementation, but surprise, does now. We’d gone out of town and when we came home, he had a pretty ugly set of scratches.

So I upped his cu and zn to the second pic there and it’s clearing right up.

Yeah, he shouldn’t need more. Why does he? Who knows. But there’s so much we don’t know about nutrition, and the horse doesn’t read the spreadsheet. I was very frustrated with this sort of thing a few years back–why was that one horse always popping with weird stuff at a consistent point of the year??–and tried upping the cu and zn after working through a lot of other stuff without much success. It worked.

[PaddockWood]

Very interesting. I DID test my water this year and it was low in iron. I recall a webinar w Dr. Deb Taylor of Auburn and her opinion that getting Cu and Z up helps protect against laminitis. All I know is in all the years of testing insulin on my mare who is also PPID - just a few weeks ago her number was the lowest it had ever been. 53. Since I’ve had them home and really in control of feeding and having my minerals so tight I couldn’t help but wonder if that’s why.

[PaddockWood]

Actually probably best to start a new thread. Would seem some would benefit from these discussions titled under its own thread. Here’s my water results. What do you think?

[Simkie]

Considering the cu/zn/fe/mn balance, the water looks good–you’re not getting more fe or mn to toss off your cu and zn. It’s certainly possible to have a ton in the water, and that can be a problem! For a little while I was sure our water here had a ton of mn, and that was why cu and zn were such a thing…but nope, test came back like yours.

I agree it’s pretty wild what getting enough cu and zn into the diet impacts. That’s great you’ve seen such improvement! When I was first facing stubborn and seasonal scratches (and cellulitis and abscessing, fun times) and was debating upping the cu & zn, I realized that a) risk is low and b) it was cheap. My two favorite things, ha!

I see results in a couple three weeks, usually sooner. I keep the dose up for maybe 6, then go back to baseline.

This is also a weird regional or location thing, ime. I had NONE of these issues before living in the north east.

I don’t know why certain horses just seem to need more, but have a couple swags that at least sound plausible: the microbiome is consuming some amount of the cu and zn, leaving less for the horse. Or the horse has some borderline damage to the gut, which is limiting absorption. Or there’s another mineral that’s high here that’s impacting this ratio, that hasn’t come to light yet. I dunno!

[PaddockWood]

If every owner could completely add up their nutrient sources at least once it would be a good thing - especially all the feed sources. I’d never tested my water before and was always curious because I get a serious calcium ring or something in there - on my Nelson stainless steel bowls.

Thanks for your reply and thoughts on it all!

[cnd8]

One last question. I was printing out the TC Balancer info sheet to give to the barn manager last night and realized there is also a TC Balancer Gold. In our convo, were we both referring to the TC Balancer version? Just want to make sure. I notice the protein is way different, among other things, in the Gold version.
I was going to have her pick up TC Balancer.

[cnd8]

Oh! Scratches update! I made a fresh batch of the triple antibiotic, max strength Desitin, hydrocortisone, athletes foot stuff, and I have been brushing it on with a toothbrush (I hate Desitin under my nails! lol) each PM, and it is definitely calming down under there! I soaked the scabs mostly off with chlorohexidine before I first applied it, but the scabs had been growing back so rapidly before. Now they are pretty much at bay, so I feel good about that! I think the toothbrush is pretty key too. Can really brush it in so it makes a nice contact with the skin to create that water barrier.

[JB]

@cnd8

were we both referring to the TC Balancer version

I was referring to the regular 30% balancer, yes.

@cnd8

I have been brushing it on with a toothbrush

that’s a lot of work LOL unless it’s a small area. I just used a latex glove because yeah, it’s ridiculous to get off skin LOL And then I use a paper towel to wipe off the old before adding new.

Just be careful the brush doesn’t pull any scabs off to create a wound

[cnd8]

Thank you! Oh, it is a very small area. Just a couple scabs on the back of his fetlock with an old worn out soft toothbrush.

[SinMiedo]

Several people have mentioned the vet-made special cream and if I had to bet, I’d say it’s more than likely Greer’s Goo. The real deal is comprised of Nystatin powder/cream, hydrocortisone, and a zinc oxide cream. It’s expensive-ish to have compounded, but you can make a pretty close dupe. Nystatin is rx only unless things have changed recently, but you can get miconazole OTC.

[theresak]

@cnd8

Well, the reason I get paranoid is my last horse would blow up with cellulitis if I didnt stay on top of it.

FYI for my very similar horse, I did high-quality pre/probiotics for a while with the thought that all the antibiotics for the cellulitis killed all of the beneficial bacteria on the skin that helped protect. Add extra copper, zinc, vitamin e, and pre/probiotics turned the corner on the occurrences of cellulitis and eliminated the chronic scratches.

[Weezer]

This TB’s skin is so sensitive that any medicated cream I tried irritated her skin. The coconut oil softens up the scabs and seems to soothe the skin. After almost a week of using the coconut oil, the scabs are almost off and the surrounding skin looks healthy.

This mare is wearing woof wear mud boots unless the grass is dry. Once the skin is fully healed, I’ll use Keratex powder to keep her legs dry under the boots. On the occasions when the boots have been wet before bedtime, I’ve wrapped her in standing wraps to keep her legs dry.

I’ve been supplementing her with copper/zinc for almost a year and will start adding probiotics next week (as suggested by another poster).

This is the best her legs have been in the three years since she arrived, so I’m excited!

Thanks everyone for the great advice!

[vxf111]

That’s what my vet uses. She puts that right in the label.

[BroncoMo]

Alright. This is timely. I have success based on some suggestions up thread. I have two horses who recently blew up with horrible scratches. The worst I’ve ever seen on my personal horses and they were sore; I’d never had scratches so bad that they were sore to touch.

I mixed:

8 ounces 40% zinc oxide.
8 ounces neosporin.
4 ounces hydrocortisone.
2ish (I think) jock itch cream (can’t remember the active ingredient).

Mixed it all up and slathered it on, then had to go out of town for 3 days. At that point, I could see improvement from the addition of copper and zinc in their feed, but still pretty bad. I came back from my trip to find the one horse nearly completely healed, and the other had made drastic progress. I put more on yesterday. I expect continued improvement. All in, I think I spent $35 on all the topicals (all generic), and will get three treatments out of it (total of three legs, back of pastern mostly covered on all legs involved). A touch pricey, but I want this shit GONE!!

[cnd8]

It has worked for me as well! I’m applying it every couple days now just to be safe, but the scabs and irritation are gone.