[QUOTE=slc2;3029504]
People do lie about their backgrounds.[/QUOTE]
:lol:
[QUOTE=slc2;3029504]
But it’s not just the person themselves who misleads other potential students. Very often, it’s the person’s students, who repeat the person’s achievements incorrectly…and the trainer may not go around diligently correcting them. I can’t believe some of the things OTHERS say about certain trainers. [/QUOTE]
This is a good point… I would say the greatest “lies” that were told to me regarding trainers were passed on by their students. Students don’t want to say “yes, I have been riding with for xxx years, learning nothing, but I am hanging in there!” They want their trainer to be well respected, experienced, qualified - whether it is true or not!
Buying / selling / importing horses can lead for good opportunity for trainers to be perceived by people to be more experienced than they are. This isn’t necessarily the trainer’s fault, but I agree that some are not particularly forthcoming with the truth. Did the trainer really train those fabulous horses, or were they bought ready to show?
Case in point…
I am sure I am not the only Canadian who was a little confused when they read the news bulletin (in a few places) on Stefan Peters riding Wholio in a demo at an upcoming fundraiser - a horse trained and sucessfully shown GP by one of our own, Jon Costin. The bulletin made it sound like whoever it is who rides him now (sorry, don’t know the name) “trained” the horse, when in reality, she can’t have had him for more than 6 mos. or so. There was no mention of the horse’s past in Canada (was probably shortlisted for our team, I would imagine).
I am sure that there was absolutely no malice intended in the writing of this article, or by the current trainer of the horse - who, for all I know, may be extrordinary, and may have trained several horses to GP, I have no idea who she is (please note that I am not faulting her here - as I am sure she did not write the article herself). However, my point is… if you went, watched this high profile, well publicized ride, loved the performance - and as a result signed up with this trainer for a clinic or whatever… did you really get the whole story? All I can say is that I hope at the actual performance, they give some background on the horse.
I think I have the local scene pretty well figured out now, but if I were to move to a new city, I would not even bother asking trainers what their credentials are, or asking students for opinions on their trainers. I would just want to see them ride, and take a lesson with them. Proof is in the performance.
They sure do and it’s very annoying. I wish more people were honest about their riding backgrounds.
Ive learned my lesson after $$$$ down the tube on “trainers”… I now look up scores, verify training and background. I look at how their students are scoring and how far they (the actual trainer) took that student. I look at if their own horses are sound, are their client horses sound and staying sound. There are a lot of factors. Im not out here to make friends anymore, Im out here wanting a job done.
If the person is WHO they say they are, they will not have an issue to hand over their resume. If they do have an issue, RUN and run fast. My checks are good so their resume better be as well.
while i agree that it is a HUGE problem that so many trainers are not what they say they are… i did want to point out that just becuase someone doesn’t have a show record, or an internet presence or etc - doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t know anything…
i happen to know of 2 extremely qualified and experienced ( thru GP) trainers that have no online info at all. But they came from some really good schools and stables… they are just v. low key and not into showing…
so…
A show record is supposed to at least give you some sort of ‘yardstick’ that at least has some consistency between different people, and it might be easier to look up those records than some of the things STF mentions…but I think having trained horses that stay sound, etc that she lists, actually is crucial.
It’s important to me for the trainer to have a RECENT history. That can be either his/her own performance that of their students. I chuckle at those 20+ year old photos trainers still use for advertising.
People do lie about their backgrounds
Yeah, we noticed, slc.:):)
I have a theory that is you must be able to ride two levels higher than what you teach. All the peices fall into each other. 2nd level is only the start of the puzzle and unless you understand WHY it feeds into the next movement, you cant really teach it nor teach the theory behind it.
So… with that said, a “trainer” should have students or past students that have been at that level… even if the rider themself does not ride. Finding past scores are easy now. USDF has made it easy with the new database, at least for the last few yrs. Finding their students is. A instructor should not be afraid to give student names to verify their scores if they are secure with their “learned” abilties.
What an idiot trainer can teach in one lesson can take a long time to fix. Dont fall into it. Find someone who has noted ability in what they are doing and go that direction. How do you find them, look at the scores on the USDF shows at the upper level riders.
But, make sure its on more than one horse. Dont fall for the “trainer” who buys a schoolmaster and rides it to FEI and calls themself an FEI trainer. There is a lot more TRAINING one to FEI than learning to ride a forgiving already made soul at FEI.
Ok, Im done ranting. Ive been hell bent for 4 days and ready for a bar fight as it is! :lol:
But, make sure its on more than one horse. Dont fall for the “trainer” who buys a schoolmaster and rides it to FEI and calls themself an FEI trainer. There is a lot more TRAINING one to FEI than learning to ride a forgiving already made soul at FEI.
AMEN!!! 
**This can apply to more than one of trainer’s horses… find out what level the horse was at BEFORE trainer got it.
What is fascinating is how these shady “trainers” can attract a cult like following of seemingly intelligent adult people. People who in every OTHER aspect of their lives would not give someone like this the time of day. They would certainly review the resume of a job applicant or do a background check on a prospective renter but when it comes to HORSES common sense seems to fly out the window. We have a “trainer” in our area who moves around about every 10-15 years (she is due to leave SOON!) and there is almost an L. Ron Hubbard situation going on. Her website is spooky, like going back in time… anyone care to revisit the 60’s?!
[QUOTE=mbm;3030062]
while i agree that it is a HUGE problem that so many trainers are not what they say they are… i did want to point out that just becuase someone doesn’t have a show record, or an internet presence or etc - doesn’t necessarily mean they don’t know anything…
i happen to know of 2 extremely qualified and experienced ( thru GP) trainers that have no online info at all. But they came from some really good schools and stables… they are just v. low key and not into showing…
so…[/QUOTE]
I agree with that…the diamond is still out there in the rough- You have to also click with your trainer and test the ethics and the stuff that makes it all work (like communciations galore…LOL!)
a trainer is not a fix- it’s only an aide and a friend and an assistant for you to get to the next level- ultimately it’s your own responsibility to get to the next level- by reading , by watching and auditing- but riding everything you can get your hands on and become competent - and foremost be fit and ready to do the job! It CAN NOT BE BOUGHT- it HAS TO BE EARNED…:)!!
sad truth number one! (yes there are more…)
…
Hello,
I would ask my COTH friends for verification - what is this person’s name ?
The world is very small.
Yours in sport,
Lynn
We’ve had our share of wing-ding trainers up in the great white north.
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Wannabe big German trainer in the 70’s in my neck of the woods. Organized some dressage shows. But he had a German accent…people thought he HAD to know what he was talking about! Moved out west the last thing I heard, suckering people in to his charming ways. Neither himself or his students ever did anything. Got in big doo-doos for horse abuse a while back.
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Apparent former National dressage coach of a small foreign country. Rode walk/trot in a local show a couple of years ago. Yes, and these horses did not appear too green to me! Lies upon lies about his acheivements and his daughters accomplishments. This person forgets that there are some of us die-hard dressage people that have been around since the 70’s when he used to have a prayer meeting in the corner of the arena before giving a lesson then proceed to beat the crap out of any horse that would not submit to his wishes. My old horse had a scar across his face to prove it. (That was the last straw for me). Disappears for a few years, then rises like a phoenix in some other area of the country, or in a foreign country, only to weasle back into the woodwork again when he’s found out. I think he waits for a “new” generation of dressage people to form before hanging his business card up again.
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“Big name trainer”, makes tons of money, but has never produced any riders. Tends to “use” riders’ names as clients that he has only taught at clinics.
The internet has made the dressage world very small. Too bad people don’t google their potential trainers/coaches, and ask for references of students to see if they are the real deal.
this is not changing the subject to point out that many judges have not ridden up in the higher levels where they are judging. Some have borrowed trained horses to show a few times. They have not trained a horse up or shown their own horses at the upper levels. Yet they can judge. It sucks.
New here please forigive.
What about instructos who are older and not recorded?
Horse that are lame? From riding? From accident? An accident can happen in the field.
Do the people now anything? Are the really all fake?
If stuendenst are lying (happens a lot) then why are you mad at the instructor? People mishear all the time.
I don’t like lyars. I just don’t know if you can really find out all the dealials about a person who is old.
I haven’t read every post on here, mainly ther 1st page.
But I think you have to qualify to compete at the qualifiers for the Olympics and World Cup. You need to have a certain number of CDI scores in order to even try to qualify.
It is possible that this is what the rider/trainer was referring to in the original post.
Spectrum.
I know of a “trainer” that claims 10 years of experience (concurrent, no less) SHOWING in H/J and dressage. Said “trainer” is 23. She believes pelhams and kimberwickes are legal dressage bits, and tried to convince me of such (all this occurred in a social setting, I did not and will never take lessons from her). No show records anywhere to be found, nothing. I want to copy the page with the pictures of the legal bits for dressage and send it to her anonymously.
She also claims to have trained with and worked for a “Congress champion”. I know the trainer she is referring to, as I worked for him in 2005 for a short stint. She told me, out of her own mouth, that she rode with him at a horse camp when she was a child. I see her advertisements every week. Seven years in H/J and dressage has now turned into 10.
I know too many “trainers” that advertise, and for every year that goes by it seems they add on at least two or three more. Pretty soon 12 becomes 15, becomes 20, becomes a lifetime of training despite the fact that the “trainer” is only in their mid-twenties and has only actually spent two or three years teaching or training.
It seems that no one around hear actually cares to VERIFY the ‘claim to fame’ background.
[QUOTE=feisomeday;3033092]
this is not changing the subject to point out that many judges have not ridden up in the higher levels where they are judging. Some have borrowed trained horses to show a few times. They have not trained a horse up or shown their own horses at the upper levels. Yet they can judge. It sucks.[/QUOTE]
Quite a few dressage judges are still around in Canada where they have not shown the upper levels. One judge in particular was given their card and got 40% at Training level at only 1 recognized show back in the 70’s. This person got their R Card. I have the photos to prove that one!
sick isn’t it? why would anyone spend their hard earned money to show in front of such judges? Why would anyone care what they think? Same question about those “trainers”. The students have to be such rank beginners to take lessons from them. so sad. such a waste of valuable learning time.
