How to work with a horse that refuses to move forward

[EqTrainer]

I do not like to generalize about breeds but this is IME often a TB thing - if they balk it is because your leg is on, on, and more ON and instead of tuning it out like a more pleghmatic horse might do, they throw a revolt. By stopping all together.

My advice is, is your leg OFF unless you are asking her to go? When you ask her to go - this is really important - do you keep your leg DOWN, your seat ON and just slap her w/your leg? No pulling it up, no pushing, no grinding, just a slap? Because the other potential issue is that if you PUSH with your leg, then your seat may be coming up/changing and it is your seat that controls the energy your leg makes. A lot of sensitive horses will slam on brakes if your leg says go and your seat disappears.

Or… maybe she’s just naughty

[sm1]

@dressagevettech;3838691

My trainer gets on her and has no problems getting her to forward and working.

Then it’s the rider. I second EqTrainer. Also, how defensively are you riding (tense, not a deep seat), do you have an independant seat or are your legs/heels bouncing, and are you anticipating when is she going to halt again? As far as thinking goes, TBs will read your mind.

I ride my OTTB without having my heels go into his side, it’s all small nuances of the calf and thigh. And seat of course. He appreciates it that way, and so do I.

[Go_Fish]

Sometimes the horse is being asked to do the wrong job…

[Foxtrot_s]

I’m in agreement with EqTrainer. A TB mare had been sent to a dressage trainer and she had a bad case of the balks so I got her given to me. I think she was over-faced, asked to do too much, too soon, and was very sensitive. In the end, with my varied activities and not too much drilling, she turned into a wonderful hard worker who loved her job. She was a real go-getter and ambitious, never balked again. I think this reads like a criticism - but it’s not meant to be - just saying my own experience. I have her daughter, and her daughter’s daughter.

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=dressagevettech;3838691]
I have a 7 year old mare that is schooling First Level, but we have hit a bit of a wall in our training.
She will out of nowhere stop midstide and plant all four feet.
When you ask her to move on she will kick out and then progress to crow-hopping backwards.
It is very inconsistant when this will occur. Sometimes at the walk, but mostly while trotting.
She has had a saddle fitter look at her and we got a saddle that fits her quite well.
She regularly sees a chiropractor and he has not found anything wrong.
She just had her hocks injected as she was lame on both hinds, but has been back to work for at least a month now with no problems.
Beyond that she has had a full exam to check for cysts or other reproductive issues which all came back clean.
So I feel that this is not a medical behavoir and stems from a hole in her training.
This behavoir has been going on for a long time, even before I got her. This is part of the reason she came to me, and I got such a good price for her.
My trainer gets on her and has no problems getting her to forward and working.
She will still test me but she will adamantly refuse to work if someone she doesnt know gets on her.
When she does move forward she is a pleasure to ride and seems to enjoy her work.

So I come here asking for ideas and advice on how to approach my mare with her sucking back.
Using whips or spurs on her just causes her to react more violently and has never gotten positive results.
We have tried waiting her out, turning her in circles, or backing her up. None of it seems to work well, or if it does for long.
Even going outside the ring into a field doesnt seem to make her any less liable to suck back either.

Thanks for any ideas you all have!!![/QUOTE]

uf the horse doesnt do it with your instructor then its the way your riding her
so look to education of yourself

if a rider is heavyin the hands or hands set then you will have bit avassion and the horse not wanting to go forwards also you would be deemed to be sending hoer mixed messages
asking for her to go forwards with your body but asking her to stop with your hnads
in this case there is not a clear direct signal so the horse is confused
confusion in a horses mind is a fear factor - fear is 1st is to flee the 2nd is to advade
asyour ridding her then then 2nd fear factor is happening
look here-- http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/showthread.php?t=178116

read the 1st three links

when working a horse use the half halts in all transitions working the horse by lengthening and shortening his strides starting of with walk then walk and trot then add canter paces
using the half halt stride in each transition
always master new movements in walk then once learnt can use it in up gears
by using the half halt stride which is your freind of a pace the same as trot is you are informing the horse via a direct clear signal something going to change ie from a faster pace to a more collected one or visa versa
the half halt stride is explained how to do on my helpful links pages

[DressageGeek_Ribbon]

I agree with EqTrainer and gls too - when my horse won’t go forward, it is generally because I am asking but inhibiting at the same time.

Look upon this as a good thing - it’s like having eyes on the ground even when you are not riding with your trainer. Having a sensitive horse keeps you honest! And watch when your trainer rides, too - see how they ask, and what response they get - very educational! It may be worth videotaping the trainer and you.

And good luck!

[happyrider]

Agree with prior posts…if she’s not doing it with your trainer then it’s a rider issue. You may not be telling her to do something but you may not be telling her not to. Also, she may simply feel she’s got your number or it could be an aid issue. If she behaves well on the lunge line consider having your trainer lunge the two of you in various capacity to see if you can find where it shows up.

For example, you could start with lunge line with side reins and you have no rein control. You could work on rising trot if it doesn’t show up then move to sitting trot. Try different things while working her and try to make her trot feel like it does to you when you aren’t on the lunge line. If it still doesn’t show up then remove the side reins and have you take up connection with the reins and continue rising/sitting. By trying to isolate the variables hopefully you can help find some pattern.

A final note, behavior like this can often be retrained but you can’t erase the fact that it exists. You will have to be aware of it whenever you change up things - new rider, coming back to work after time off, going new places etc. It should dimish over time but often does a little lurking in the background and you’ll have to manage it so it doesn’t take over again.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[Fixerupper]

I suggest that you video your rides as well - it can be a real eye-opener when you see what you are really doing rather than what you think you are doing…it’s a great training aid!

[poltroon]

As far as “goes better for the trainer,” I’ve seen three reasons for this, any or all of which might apply.

1. The trainer rides a lot of horses all the time. She naturally takes less nonsense. She is firm and confident in what she asks. She’s a busy lady and she doesn’t have all day, and the horses know this. It’s like the difference between how you might behave for a teacher instead of your mom. Over time, horses get to know their riders and know what they can get away with and still be loved. (We riders do the same with our bad habits.)

2. The trainer isn’t a very regular ride for the horse, and so the horse is listening harder to try to figure this new person out.

3. Your trainer is just that much better than you. That’s why you pay her.

The only other thing to consider is physical differences, like if you are 100 lbs heavier than your trainer.

Even a horse in pain may still go better for a trainer because of reasons 1 or 2, though I agree you should look to training and behavioral solutions.

I think the key is to try to decide if there’s a precursor. Is she tired? Did a bug fly up her nose? Did you ask for something hard? Facing away from the barn? Were you working on something too repetitive, so she had time to think? Then think about how you might modify her work program so you avoid those issues. When I was dealing with a nappy horse (who had good brakes!) I had pretty good results by only asking to canter facing towards the barn for a while. The attitude went away, and then (a) I knew it was just attitude and (b) after a while she was resigned that we had agreed that those were the aids to canter and © it helped increase her physical fitness.

[osumbrosie]

I get a freeze, spin around away from an object, and we’ll go again, but its always around a particular object or corner of the arena. I know he wants to get out of work, but I don’t know how to fix it. I was able to get past said “scary object” yesterday, but the freeze and spin came out of nowhere. For me I know he just wants to not work.

[Pipkin]

Had teeth looked at? With the hocks, did you have x-rays or did you inject for investigative purposes and she came back sound?

I would go back to the ground and reassert basic forward aides, but to be honest I wouldn’t rule out a physical issue.

[staceyk]

I had a month or two experience of this with my otherwise kind and reasonable gelding. The ultimate correction was that I rode differently, and learned to help him position his body better to stay balanced and most importantly, by staying out of his face. He would get unbalanced, loading his outside shoulder, and velcro himself to the wall (in my cluelessness I let him drift there) and stop. He’s not one to escalate or be very naughty, so I basically did one of a few things…
– smacked with whip quick and fast, repeatedly, till he took ONE STEP in the right direction, then tsop and heaps of praise, no rein contact
– turned him on his hindquarters or the forehand until going straight forward started to appeal to him more, again heaps of praise

I had to really get aggressive about it, and make the balking VERY uncomfortable (this horse is phlegmatic as they come, and a sweetie) to get the right reaction.

I think the problem (which I’ve only partially fixed) was (mostly) too much rein contact. I’ve ridden many other horses that did not react, but this one is super-sensitive about it. The experience has made me a much better rider.

[Valentina_32926]

My mare started this exact behavior around 6 years of age - turned out to be a thyroid problem. At one point I never knew how sensitive she would be - one day a shift in the saddle got me flying changes, the next day both spurs and whip wrapped around her rib cage got her turning her head to look at me like “what do you want?”

So I asked around and found a great vet that came down from Michigan every s often. He listened to her symptoms and told me to have her thyroid tested - he was correct. Put her on Thyro-L and have never had those issues since then.

It’s worth the money and little cost for the powder ta goes into her feed.

[dog_amp_horsemom]

I hate to say it but alot of horses are just good at figuring out their rider and know when the rider just doesn’t have what it takes to make them go forward. Alot of replies have suggested that and I agree.
backing, circles, whips, spurs ect ect - forget it. You will probably be good to send her to a trainer where she is consistently ridden by someone who is firm enough to get her to go forward ( and that rider will do that in the first ride) and while she is in training - you would be best to have lessons on a horse that goes forward and keeps your confidence at a good level - then when you get your mare back - get lessons from that trainer immediately - do not ride her until you get that lesson. Horses seldom forget -
now yrs ago I got a barn sour horse and I could not go past an imaginary line that horse set - so - got a trainer out and my horse reared with him and it tried all kinds of things but the trainer rode through it and after that I never had another problem - ever. but I was young and ignorant so I was pretty confident!
hope this helps…

[SassyJuliette]

She’s Got Your Number ???

I have not read all the posts and apologize if this solution has already been presented.
Sound like our horses are siblings. We were struggling with the same issue for a couple months until a fellow boarder came over to help. She gave my daughter a tool that worked like a charm! Get along the side of the arena and ask the horse to move. If she doesn’t, take your right rein an pull it tightly so the horse has to turn around and walk about six steps that direction. Then pull your left rein tight and turn to go in the original direction. Repeat until she decides it’s better to do what you want. My daughter got a smile on her face that I hadn’t seen in a while…so happy. Try it and tell me what you think ??? Happy Riding!

[Countrywood]

I have a horse that can be very balky, (and kicks out or bucks at whip). Myself and trainer have tried a variety of things and what is working the best is : The very first moment he ignores my aid to go forward whether that’s from a halt to walk or walk to trot etc, I back him up, hard driving him back with leg aids, so I am directing it. He’s moving “forward”, but in reverse gear. He really dislikes it, it seems to reset his mental clock. I only need to do it once or twice early in ride and the balking problem is pretty well solved, though he still takes a longer warm up to hit his groove and get motivated.

People wante to attribute it to rider but if a rider can ride other horses and they dont’ balk, then why does this one horse ( their own horse) balks? It’s not that the rider rides so poorly or holds them back, it’s that the rider allowed it to happen a couple of times and that’s all it takes for some horses. They will now test that rider each and every ride about going forward, until the rider makes it clear to horse that the first moment a resistance to forward is felt there will be consequences ( the consequences tailored to horse’s temperament and what works for the horse)

I realize now had I done this early on the problem would not have escalated. The trick is not to wait till horse actually stops and is in stuck or tantrum mode. Get after them with the solution or backing up or circling or whip or whatever seems to work the first inkling of ignoring a forward aide. (all assuming no physical cause which seems to be ruled out)

Sometimes a different saddle pad or half pad can help if it’s a sensitive back issue, assuming saddle fits. Best of luck.

[Foxtrot_s]

Thread read familiar - it is from Jan 2009…

[Bogey2]

I thought the same thing…is she built for the work?

[QUOTE=Entourage;3838735]
Hocks injected at 7 years old? I’m just wondering if this is normal. I would wager a bet it is probably something physical.[/QUOTE]

[onelanerode]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;3838890]
She’s training you!!! This is a not uncommon exhibition of nappiness. Spinning in a small circle with her nose to your knee will take the fun out of it for her. If she runs backward, keep her going backward, then when you decide to stop, do something basic like a turn on the forehand. Pick up the trot again and be prepared for the next exciting episode. Because it will happen…You will get less and less of it, but the tendency to try shutting down will rear its ugly head again. I find it frequently takes place in a particular area of the arena.[/QUOTE]

This is what I do; my trainer (who has worked with TBs and OTTBs for decades) taught me to do it.

My OTTB gelding will balk some when we’re hacking out (footing changes are problematic); if I push, he starts going backward. We don’t have a ring, so all our riding is done in a empty pasture or on trails. Depending on his attitude about it, I either sit tight (if he’s really frantic and it’s “no, I can’t”) and wait him out, or I put his head to my knee and spin him (if he’s saying “nope, don’t want to”). No kicking or whipping (that just escalates things, and I’m not interested in giving this horse an excuse to try rearing). Backing is his go-to, and it’s clear that at some point it worked really well for him.

Trainer also has had me do work from the ground before mounting every ride (horse had had inconsistent riding/training and had a lot of ideas about what he should/shouldn’t have to do). We school in hand on the ground, just basics: walk on, whoa, turning each way, being led from both sides, not lagging or barging, etc.

If I am not getting results under saddle, I will hop off and work him in hand; all the groundwork, plus the added confidence booster of his rider on the ground next to him (I guess he figures I will get sucked into the quicksand first?), gets me the result I want. I don’t get off and quit; he’s still working. I’m just doing it from the ground instead of the saddle. Depending on the issue, sometimes I’ll get back on, and sometimes I’ll quit after our in-hand work. He’s getting better, more confident, but there are days when my riding plans get scrapped because the “go forward” button broke and has to be reinstalled.

[x]

I had a balky, barnsour horse once. He would not move. If you got after him with a whip or spurs, he would melt down, rear, go backwards, do anything except go forward–he wouldn’t even go back to the barn which was why he was balking in the first place–going away. We reformed him completely with clicker training. Normal training did not work–getting after him did not work–more spur/crop/leg did not work. clicker training worked. The horse went on to compete successfully for me, before I eventually sold him (he was a sale horse). We used clicker training on him to get him to go forward willingly, and when we started jumping (he was a hunter) used clicker training again. We would school him at shows before we went in the ring with a clicker and treat at the far end of the ring, going away from gate, etc. He got good enough that he was sold into a lesson program.