Even before the USHJA, AHSA tried to bring in the riding school students on school horses by introducing the Children’s Hunters. That lasted about 2 years before successful Children’s Hunters were selling for similar prices to Junior Hunters.
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This. Plus the fee schedule for some show barns is just ridiculous- I’m all for paying people a fair wage but dang can you let the kids and adults do SOME of their own care for a discount off daycare? Or help setup/takedown and pay less there? I was lucky enough to be taught how to keep track of my ring and check in myself, groom tack and prep my horses, warmup and learn my courses and be ready at the ring for my trainer at the correct time. If you(g) don’t teach them, they have to pay for the hand holding - which fewer and fewer people can afford.
The shows don’t help much either - stalls and fees are astronomical to the point that the people who just want to come show Saturday and Sunday in the opportunity are staring at hundreds of dollars before even stepping into the ring or paying the trainer. When shows require hay and shavings only be purchased onsite and tack on this and that fee, plus RV spots (if they exist) being $$$$, plus whatever else, you just start to wonder if they really care about the grassroots at all.
Support your local shows, y’all.
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They are not allowed to do that
“GR1216 Facilities.7. Subject to local law and contract requirements, any owner or trainer stabled on the grounds of a competition must be permitted to haul in hay, grain and bedding, meeting management’s specifications as published in the prize list, for their own use, and use any farrier or veterinarian of their choice.”
So they CAN say you have to use shavings and you can’t use straw, for instance, but they CAN NOT say you have to buy your shavings from them.
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Thermal and NEE both charge a stall cleaning fee if you don’t buy a minimum amount of bedding. Thermal is five bags. I think that NEE is the same.
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Amen on the sunshine and butterflies.
Similarly, what @Arzny was getting at, to me, was less about minding or policing posts and more an uneasiness about how easy it is to use selective bits and pieces to tell an inaccurate story.
Because extremely important points were made about keeping up with changing societal norms (and the urgency related to that), the ‘selectively edited’ aspect was acknowledged by USEF in muted terms.
Now I suppose it’s a matter of triage and really, at the end of the day, what are you going to do about somebody’s film project shot out into social media? It’s blown over. Instagram and TikTok are now on to the next thing. Yay for short attention spans, especially if a greater good comes out of the whole thing.
But I’m still nervous about a line down the road where social license turns to social blackmail because who wants to be made the example of the moment?
**Many edits because typing incoherently while multitasking
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Blockquote[quote=“RAyers, post:20, topic:792937”]
This is where the cultural aspect of performance horse sports has to change. It isn’t the show that causes the cost to be astronomical, it is the trainers and their programs.
Let’s look at rodeo. Kids from the city/suburbs, can come and to mutton busting in front of an audience of thousands for something like $15. They get to wear the same gear the PBR riders wear and have almost the same atmosphere. Those kids become invested in rodeo and western culture. At the recent National Western Stock Show they ran 30 kids a day for 2 weeks, and the area was sold out (we had to watch from the arena perimeter fencing which was standing room only). Only one kid decided not to go at the last minute and the crowd still gave him a cheer for just being out there.
Where are the pony classes where kids can pay $15 to ride in the GP ring and even jump a 10" vertical on a lead line to a cheering crowd?
The sport is self selecting to an activity only the wealthy do and this opens it up to further attacks and irrelevance. It isn’t just the shows that need to put in the effort to engage the general public but the trainers too. They need to put their effort in to bring in kids who may never understand or experience what we do, and they need to do it at a cost that is affordable to even the lowest hard working family.
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Not to mention, rodeo really knows how to put on a spectator event. I went to the National Finals Rodeo a few years ago (I was out in Vegas for a conference) and I was absolutely blown away. It was so different from our HJ shows or even racing. Always something happening in the ring, high energy, and a packed arena.
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THIS!
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That’s horrible. TIEC doesn’t do that. I wonder if the show facility has a contract with a hay/shavings company that must fill a quota.
I don’t think we’re gonna solve the accessibility problem through lessening costs of shows by bringing own shavings/hay. Yeah it helps but like most people I know who start riding don’t even do shows for the first couple years. They’re just getting their bearings and figuring out if they like it.
Really I think it comes back to the accessibility of lesson horses and solid beginner programs–and if one can make a solid living off of that.
I don’t blame trainers for recognizing having a barn of active show folk helps pay a trainer’s bills and allows them to have some semblance of a savings account for retirement. Wanting a reasonable living situation and reliable income is a fair ask.
So then how could that be replicated for at-home? What kind of business model could work for more of the intro-to-horses level? Folks who may just simply want to do an at-home show vs. compete? Maybe do more pony club and 4-H stuff? That’s where I’ve seen the biggest decline over the last couple decades. Most trainers/barn owners I’ve spoken to cite how expensive it is to keep a barn of lesson horses and how hard it is to keep a full roster of lessoners to support costs.
Then when those lesson programs are gone, folks really don’t have much of a choice but to hop on the show program bus if they really love horses. And that’s usually out of reach for majority of the US population.
ETA maybe I’m thinking super crazy, but it would be incredible if USEF subsidized/rewarded trainers with lesson programs, IEA, pony club events, etc. Like I don’t mind my membership fees going to that. Far better than another big ass ribbon or trophy. Or memorial statue. Or whatever else they think they’re spending our dues on.
Also, why aren’t we doing income-based membership dues? Surely for families that make under BLANK, kids can have membership fees waived?
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Exactly. I have a horse for lease and a half care lease is $1200 a month, for 3 days a week. I’m not making money off of that, that’s just her expenses. I understand why people get sticker shock, but trainers can’t afford to subsidize people learning to ride.
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Agree. I think it would be very hard to convince anyone at a HJ show to include a class where kids from the general public can show up and ride, even if it was something like a leadline class. Personally, I would be happy to volunteer my horse for such purposes, but I suspect most would not, and many horses at a HJ show would not be suited for those purposes anyway.
However, we have a few great HJ schooling series in our area that are held in state parks or at county fairgrounds, and it seems like there are always some families that randomly happen upon the show and stay to watch. Are there non-horse classes that these types of shows can include to draw interest from the general public? I’m thinking fun type classes where kids race around a jump course on foot type thing. Prizes could include a riding lesson at a local stable. Maybe host a ‘clinic’ at the show where kids can learn to groom a horse.
As it is, HJ horse shows are SO boring for non-riders, I feel bad inviting my own parents to them. As many of you have pointed out, if we want to win public support, it would probably help to give local families an insight into our world that doesn’t seem super elitist and stuck up.
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So are swim meets. And tennis matches. And 10k races and road biking and your average softball game. Dog shows are painfully boring, with agility and some of the other timed events getting dang repetitive after a handful of rounds.
The issue we face here is not just that the general public doesn’t understand or have access to what we do, but that we have major, glaring animal welfare issues that are not being addressed in a substantial way. This isn’t explaining to Joe Public that bits and spurs aren’t abusive by nature, this is explaining why we let people known for outright FLAGRANT abuse continue to compete and be supported in huge ways.
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One hundred percent agree. They are even boring for the competitors. I’m not in the US so the USJHA doesn’t apply to me but we have the same issues here in Canada. My local Gold (A) show venue put out a survey to competitors asking for feedback on their shows. A long with a few other issues, one thing I did say was that their shows were boring and just felt like a glorified Silver (B-rated show). There was nothing that would give non-horse people any incentive to come and watch. I said they really need to think outside of the box. They should look to the Euro/Brit bigger shows for ideas. Those are spectacles and a lot of non-horsie people come and participate/watch. Have learning opportunities for non-horsie and horse people alike. Have the shopping not just be a few random tack stores that come every time. Have non-horse related activities that would lure people onto the showgrounds.
When they first started A shows at this one particular venue in the 90s they had one class that had the riders race in donkey pulled carts and then they had to go jump a course. I believe it was a bigger money class. I have a photo of Ian Millar racing a donkey cart. They had artists. Just get people in and then introduce them to the horses and our sport.
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I dunno. When I was a kid, I used to hang out for hours at Del Mar National. Reining, roadster ponies, western pleasure (before it got too weird), Open Jumpers. The different disciplines enthralled me. I realize that it would be nigh on impossible to do now.
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Hey, same here. In the mid to late 1970s. The Del Mar Fair show was the best!
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Yep! Same timeline. I probably saw you in the stands!!
Reading the responses on this thread once again reaffirms my strong belief that horse sports overall, and in this case HJ in particular, are super sick and have zero business policing themselves. If you are rip the bandaid off honest, (and know even a little bit about horse welfare, lameness and what really goes on in many HJ barns), you will not be talking about more transparency and getting sponsors or the public to know more about horse sports. Hell to the No!, You would want to keep all that from the light of day, or you would be committed like I am to cleaning house and really cracking down on the reality of abuse. It is “industry standard” practice in many barns give horses multiple drugs like a NSAID, a steroid and a muscle relaxant as “maintenance” or off label to calm them to appeal to the HJ judges or make them rideable to the average amateur who sucks. I venture to guess the public at large would not think this is so copacetic. Then, horses are shown week after week and locked in cages whilst drugged. Don’t think the public would like this either. They want to see the Black Stallion and Spirit eat grass and run free. Then, the reality is so so many of the horses are lame and hardly any judge, trainer, or anyone else ever says anything let alone eliminates anyone. You can search videos on USEF network and find lame horses in just about every class even big medal finals. Don’t tell me you can’t. Let’s employ legitimate vets who aren’t “horse show vets” that fill scripts like Michael Jackson’s doctor so that unscrupulous trainers can Willy Nilly drug the whole barn day after day, week after week, month after month, year after year. Let’s have them give an OK to compete to only horses sound enough that they should be out jumping courses. Watch the field dwindle. Hell, in the low jumpers and hunters there will only be a couple left. Let’s ask the public if they think it is Ok for a horse that feels marked pain each time it steps on its left front, right hind, or multiple legs to be asked to run around in circles and jump fences so that some entitled brat can win a ribbon that will likely end up in the trash. Oh, and then there is the high school and collegiate thing that is producing some of tomorrow’s trainers and other pros. They ride a horse they don’t know (like the Pentathlon) and jump them around. Very often these are super lame, broken even. They are treated like crap. Oh, and then there are clinics like that lovey Katie Prudent clinic where young riders, many very entitled and lacking empathy, ride horses they borrow and have zero relationship with. They are put in frantic situations that are super unfair to that horse and then instructed to rip the horse’s mouths off and float its teeth instead of taking the weeks and months it realistically takes to form a good relationship with a horse to do complex gymnastics with it. Horse sports are sick and way too many on the inside can’t see that at all.
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I have to agree. The orca example isn’t that far off. Is showing horses inherently as cruel as capturing wild orcas and treating them the way sea world did? Maybe not on its face, at least I don’t think so. But there are practices in showing and racing communities that are just as cruel. And they are prevalent and accepted at large. Drugging, overworking, whipping, various other torture methods designed to get quick results. If your barn is pretty and well-organized, and if you’ve won some ribbons, then it’s not abuse. Big name trainers have license to do whatever they please and then the community oohs and ahhhs over the results. Articles are written, we tell ourselves Dobbin is so well loved and pampered. And we know better. And then when the community gets called on its bullsh*t, the tantrums and pearl clutching and harkening back to the good old days ensues. The public will get in there eventually and it won’t be pretty.
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