How would you market a horse with a stop?

[dags]

I mean, there’s a reason the phrase “jumps around the first time” exists. For sure my junior hunter wasn’t going to give you a free pass the first time around a new course, and I had plenty of first fence stops because I was too focused on looking pretty and not riding. Like yours it was never a dirty stop, and it was obvious it was going to happen at least 3 strides out. It was definitely possible to ride through it though, and taught me a hell of a lot.

There are no shortage of horses that need a pro trip the first time around, or a warm up class with their main rider to get the heebie jeebies out, or a morning school in the ring when available. Phrases like “appreciates a chance to see the jumps” apply here.

Less demanding divisions such as the 2’6" are usually a bit less surprising in fences & course design, and it’s certainly easier to muscle one over the 2’6" than the 3’+. If you can set this one up on auto-pilot with just one well-ridden warm-up there’s probably a place for him at those levels. Bonus that the buyer gets that 3’+ scope, and if the relationship evolves well they might luck out with one they can move up with.

You’re definitely going to take a hit on price but I wouldn’t call it worthless, especially if it is an otherwise “nice” horse. Most can’t even afford an average horse in the current market and are having to allow for one quirk or another. And quirks that are predictable are far more palatable.

Rest assured most of the ISOs that call for No Stop, Auto Change, Hack Winner generally don’t have the budget to actually purchase that animal.

Curious, how often does this one get a pro trip first time around? Or is it always forced to face its fears with a jr/am on board?

[fivestrideline]

@dags

Curious, how often does this one get a pro trip first time around? Or is it always forced to face its fears with a jr/am on board?

Very good question. I was assuming the pro was taking it around and having to muscle it a good bit. If that’s not the case, it may be just fine with prep, like you said!

[gracelyn4]

Definitely going to put an eye exam on my to do list! He’s had a basic one in the past, but worth looking into again.

He’s not a dirty stopper at all! He’ll never make you think he’s going over and change his mind. It’s very predictable and very easy to sit. Just- takes some serious effort to convince him otherwise once he’s decided so not easy for a kid. Someone thinking they can ‘beat his stop out’ is why I’m generally wary of the care lease but these comments have definitely been helpful in terms of opening my mind to other avenues as well.

[sami-joe]

@LSBC

They are often appraised for a lot more than they could sell for as well.

…so the donating party can take a sweet tax deduction.

The prep school where I worked has several imperfect former jumpers whose owners lowered their taxable income by some $40,000-$50,000 as “donations in kind” to the school.

[gracelyn4]

He’s mine- and I technically ride as an ammy. I’m not sure if a 2’6 kid would be able to muscle him over bc you seriously have to micromanage his every step so it’s more than just kicking on. I was warned away from selling him to a kid because his stopping would knock their confidence which is why I was worried about marketing him lower than 3’ ability (if I went the hunter route).

[Rel6]

How is he to jump at home? Does he need to have his stop if its a home ring he’s familiar in, and gets to go see all the jumps first?

There are a lot of people out there who don’t want to show, and would pay for a kind, school master to learn on at home without any intention of showing. Certainly would not get the same price you would for one that can step into the show ring, but if the horse is otherwise well-schooled, quiet and ammy friendly it would be marketable in my area for lowest of 5s. Huge demand near me for horses that their adult owners can take to schooling dressage shows, trail ride, and jump at home.

If he’s pretty fancy you might be better off donating to a college for the tax write off. I helped school for an IHSA program, and all the horses that needed some extra time to see the jumps generally schooled the night before and the morning of (and I’ve seen some still stop in the morning and then school and show perfectly).

[LSBC]

Exactly! And appraisers don’t often need to see the horse do “everything.” I have been on standby many times to ride a horse for an appraiser who didn’t even need to see it under saddle because it had a reasonable record.

[dags]

I wouldn’t be expecting the 2’6" kid to do the warm-up trip. I’d expect the pro to set the horse up and hand it off, if it truly does jump around just fine after that first trip.

If he announces his stop a mile away I’m not sure I’d call that a confidence killer. Frustrating & annoying perhaps but that’s horses for you (a lesson which some of these kids desperately need to learn).

Maybe he’s braver when the jumps are smaller? I think it’s a little unusual to not consider a job over smaller jumps for a horse that has a confidence problem.

[gracelyn4]

Ah, I live in pony land a lot so I forget that that’s even allowed! Yes, if the schedule worked out so a pro could jump him around the same course before the kid, he’d be fine. Sadly, the height doesn’t matter to him- he’s easier to push over 2’ bc he can jump it from a standstill but he’ll back off just the same. I wouldn’t mind him doing a lower or local job if it was a good situation. Just didn’t want to market him for something he was inappropriate for which is why I’m glad I asked for some second opinions. It’s certainly more optimistic than being told he’s not worth anything at all!

[BAC]

@gracelyn4

You might be onto something there! I’ve warmed up horses before at my school’s home show. From what I remember, they were required to do the entire course satisfactorily with the warmup rider before the class went. So long as he wasn’t kicked out for stopping a few times in warmup, he’d probably be great just doing the same course over and over. Part of me hates the thought of just giving him away but if he really doesn’t want to be a show horse than I’d love to just find him the best home possible.

My friend took a chance on a known stopper because of the low price, a gorgeous warmblood, excellent jumper, fabulous mover. After 2-3 years she finally gave up on him. A well known dealer refused to market him as anything but a dressage horse, he didn’t sell and she ended up boarding him at a local backyard barn while she bought another horse. The family at the backyard barn fell in love with him and he turned into a fabulous trail horse and after a few years she ended up transferring ownership to the family. All that talent but he was happy as a clam being a backyard horse in his forever home, he is in his 20s now and still living his best life.

[TooManyTBs]

My children’s hunter growing up was like this - we bought him green and cheap knowing he had a stop and hoped it would improve with experience. He would do a low hunter class as a warmup then he was fine in that ring the rest of the day. We sold him for what we paid for him ($10k, this was late 90s, but he was typically in the ribbons over fences at A shows so would have been significantly more without the stop) to a woman in my barn who lessoned a few times per week but had no interest in showing. She kept him the rest of his life, he was half leased to lesson kids and used for IHSA. Very rarely stopped at home and was much happier being an at home only horse.

[Bristol_Bay]

@Rel6

There are a lot of people out there who don’t want to show, and would pay for a kind, school master to learn on at home without any intention of showing.

This describes me to a T, as well as a lot of other rusty stirrup types. I could well afford a horse, but not showing. If he’s otherwise dead broke, he would be great for someone like me who just wants to take lessons and cruise around the barn. Big plus if he goes on trail.

[Bogie]

I agree with the posters who said he would benefit from a discipline change. If he will follow a lead, take him foxhunting a few times and see if it makes him braver. There are many horses that find their inner courage once they’ve been out in the field for a season or two. And even if he always wants a lead, people always want a safe, fun horse that will go well in the field.

[222orchids]

I might look for a quality lesson barn that needs a good school horse that would never have to see a horse show again. If he is at home all the time, the stop could be less of an issue (or go away altogether). If he has all of the attributes that teach kids to ride (comfortable gaits, lead change, bomb-proof) a lesson barn might scoop him up for a fair price.

[Tha_Ridge]

@Rel6

There are a lot of people out there who don’t want to show, and would pay for a kind, school master to learn on at home without any intention of showing.

This is a good point—and there are PLENTY of showing ammies who have “practice horses” at home so they don’t have to jump their show horses’s legs off. They are not worthless by any means.

[Bluey]

Over 50 years ago our barn received this beautiful young bright red sorrel flashy imported Holstein gelding.
I was told he had been started showing and had a wicked stop and was sold for a song.
Thinking he may have been rushed, I was told to start him like a colt.
After he was riding well, start poles, then little gymnastics and see what we had.

I did that, never encountering any idea of stopping, wonderful gentle, forward and willing horse he was.
Once starting gymnastics he really seemed to like jumping, was adjusting well to any and all we did with him, no holes found, wonderful horse all around, we were having fun!

The son of the owner of the stable came from college right before we were going on the show circuit and started riding him and got along fabulously, so we took horse along.
In a few shows they had won enough to move from preliminary to intermediate.
In one show in the middle of a combination horse came down to his knees, bumped his nose on the ground and still righted up and finished without faults.
The fall had bent the bottom part of one of the full cheek sides we found out once they exited the ring.
Thankfully had not hurt his mouth or face.
Now that stumble and recovery and still keep jumping from a horse that was supposed to be a stopper?
Horse went on to have a successful jumping career.

My point of that story, you just never know why a horse is not fitting in a program and some times changing to another program is all it takes to get horse over it.

OP, maybe put horse on the market at a fair price for him as he is now, with his stopping problem and let buyers decide if he is the horse for them, as others have suggested.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@gracelyn4

He’s mine- and I technically ride as an ammy. I’m not sure if a 2’6 kid would be able to muscle him over bc you seriously have to micromanage his every step so it’s more than just kicking on. I was warned away from selling him to a kid because his stopping would knock their confidence which is why I was worried about marketing him lower than 3’ ability (if I went the hunter route).

I just wanted to chime in “you’d be surprised”. I have a mare who I bought that everyone knew had a “peek”, sometimes a stop. Once she went around- no peek, no stop. She hated my over fences ride. Literally has been the only hunter in my half century of doing this I couldn’t get around consistently. I switched to dressage before a fluke ride put a junior on her (my kid) and the mare LOVES the kid’s ride.

I think in the 2 years since the kid and I switched horses the mare has stopped maybe twice. And no stop in the xc field when my kid accompanied me. Consistently “goes” even when the jumps are “scary”.

We wouldn’t have marketed her to a jr but damn- it was a light bulb moment (and humbling for me) that somtimes a change of ride is the ticket. Just my 2 cents.

[gracelyn4]

Hey, everyone, thanks so much for all y’alls input! Definitely gave me a bunch of new things to think about. This guy won’t be going on the market just yet while I play around with some of these ideas and see if he’d like a discipline/rider/etc change. I’ll see how he is out of the ring and following and lead and such.

I feel a lot more encouraged now about his options, and I’m glad to hear he’s not the only quirky guy out there that found their spot! Our last few clinics and shows had left me pretty discouraged based on feedback both about him and about me, but a lot of y’all had positive things to say about him finding a great home on a different path, so I appreciate the advice.

[beowulf]

OP when you first made this thread I immediately thought of someone I know IRL going through the same thing. Their horse has a vision problem, and what you described your horse doing is exactly what this horse did for years. It took them years to involve an ophthalmologist. He’s totally blind in one eye and has very little remaining in the other. He was eventing BN. A charitable horse, all things considered.

Are there really many H/J horses who need a “warm up” round to go around honestly? I would think those horses are telling their people they don’t want to play in that sandbox. It’s not like eventing where terrain, shadows, and different fence styles can test a horse’s bravery. A vertical is always a vertical, there’s no “gotcha” fences. Horses that have made a career out of requiring warm up classes and/or seeing every fence first are probably telling you they need a different job.

[dags]

We had the junior hunter I talked about above thoroughly vision checked. That wasn’t the problem. He’s was just … quirky and careful and a damn good jumper.

You don’t get the best hunter jump out of a horse that is just blindly jumping around. The best ones will probably “study” the fence a bit. Put a good eyeball on it and maybe even keep it there off the ground. It backs them off a bit, encourages them to curl over & around, and keeps them careful. And yeah, put the wrong person in the tack and it can go from studying to peeking to stopping. They otherwise learn to understand that leg means It’s okay, it won’t bite you, go on ahead and jump it.

I wouldn’t call show hunters the bravest lot out there; derbies were definitely designed to showcase the braver ones. And from riding all kinds of greenies it’s rare I trust any (new) horse the first time around the ring. I just think we’re all better off if I’m up there gently generating confidence.

And let us not underestimate the creativity of an overzealous course designer with a hefty garden center budget.

So I would disagree that it means they all need new jobs… there would be a lot of hunters in need of new jobs lol.

Hunters man, harder than it looks!