Hunter rider falls off then kicks horse in the belly at Hampton Classic

[findeight]

@Seagram

What she did was crappy, but seriously? No one else has ever done something stupid like this? It didn’t permanently hurt the horse, she looks like an idiot, and its done. You’ve never been mad enough at your horse that you’ve done anything similiar?? Its not good horsemanship by any means, but sometimes we are all human!

I commented over on the HJ thread but, yes, I was as stupid as this rider, albeit probably less then half her age at the time. I missed, fell down, horse went right over the top of me. And I heard about it repeatedly, not in a favorable way, for quite some time. No excuse for me and less for her pulling that stunt at a show. Even if the horse didn’t help her out much getting to and over that fence then took advantage. For those that have never lost their temper with any of the many horses they have handled in their long lives, more power to you. I admit to human frailty on that long ago occasion…and learned why it’s totally inappropriate and doesn’t work to solve training issues.

But some are reading a whole lot into this about the complete life story of the horse and rider based on a 30 second video of one fence demonstrating a horse not doing what was expected and the riders bad sportsmanship and horsemanship complicated by her tax bracket. IMO, once she quits jerking on the reins, horse is not backing away or in any terror. Plus she remounted, schooled two fences and returned for an uneventful second trip.

USEF is reviewing and will likely issue a violation, as they should have done in the first place. But think suspension is a little much if she’s got an otherwise clean record as an owner and rider. NIOT EXCUSING HER at all. But torches and pitchforks aren’t really going to solve a much more deeply ingrained disregard for the horses well being by others charged with their care that never reveal themselves publically and have a barn full of clients despite a record of violations.

[Bluey]

@findeight

I commented over on the HJ thread but, yes, I was as stupid as this rider, albeit probably less then half her age at the time. I missed, fell down, horse went right over the top of me. And I heard about it repeatedly, not in a favorable way, for quite some time. No excuse for me and less for her pulling that stunt at a show. Even if the horse didn’t help her out much getting to and over that fence then took advantage. For those that have never lost their temper with any of the many horses they have handled in their long lives, more power to you. I admit to human frailty on that long ago occasion…and learned why it’s totally inappropriate and doesn’t work to solve training issues.

Exactly, totally inappropriate behavior any time any place.
Stupid as a teaching moment for the horse, for the handler to lose it’s temper.

But some are reading a whole lot into this about the complete life story of the horse and rider based on a 30 second video of one fence demonstrating a horse not doing what was expected and the riders bad sportsmanship and horsemanship complicated by her tax bracket. IMO, once she quits jerking on the reins, horse is not backing away or in any terror. Plus she remounted, schooled two fences and returned for an uneventful second trip.

True, any one person with a temper problem, no matter who they are, what age or tax bracket, what an idea, may do that.
It is inexcusable for any one to do so.

USEF is reviewing and will likely issue a violation, as they should have done in the first place. But think suspension is a little much if she’s got an otherwise clean record as an owner and rider. NIOT EXCUSING HER at all. But torches and pitchforks aren’t really going to solve a much more deeply ingrained disregard for the horses well being by others charged with their care that never reveal themselves publically and have a barn full of clients despite a record of violations.

[B]What?

“Others also do it” or “others have their faults too” is NEVER an excuse for doing wrong!
The old “two wrongs won’t make anyone right”.[/B]

Yes, is done, has been pointed out, that person bears watching closely, hopefully a little better at keeping cool when needed after that.
Some people learn from one mistake, some it takes longer to learn what is right and what not.
Someone mentioned they were lucky to have learned from horsemen that themselves had learned not to go there and so taught better coping skills without it.

Then, some are also born with common sense enough not to do that either, I think.

[findeight]

I didn’t say others do similar and that should excuse it. At all. Just that the culture of wink wink keep your mouth shut dont name names of those flying under the radar skirting the rules with complete disregard for horse welfare or you’ll be sorry is far more deserving of the outrage and demands for immediate suspension then this very obvious and public display of a childish temper tantrum. She deserves a spanking and fine, not a jail sentence. No excuses for acting as she did at all.

[Where_sMyWhite]

I just gotta wonder… I doubt if this was some spontaneous behavior hatched for the first time in the ring… she has to have seen it and/or done it on previous occasions. Again, where is the trainer in all this?

[JustTheTicket]

I doubt she handles the horse at all at home, except to hop on in lessons so I seriously doubt the horse was backing away in terror in the ring because she regularly beats him. He backed away because she jumped up with aggressive body language. He stopped when she did. I also thought it was hilarious the way she tried to drag him out of the ring and he just didn’t care. She made a complete ass of herself.

I just cant get over a grown ass woman throwing a temper tantrum in front of all her friends and their cameras like that. I mean, good lord. Dust yourself off, finish the round and then complain about how dumb you felt back in the barn like a normal person. I would assume that she’s used to never falling, in a literal or metaphorical sense and has no idea how to deal with little disappointments.

[ohnoO]

Just an FYI, JTT, you are not alowed to finish the round if you fall off. You need to leave the ring on foot, hopefully leading the horse with your stirrups run up and the reins over his head.

[Palm_Beach]

It’s OK to get upset and angry, it’s OK to express your anger, just not in a manner that causes injury to someone else. I think that she would have broken her foot before she would have actually caused injury to the horse’s belly. But I am just stunned that someone obviously not a child would act that way - and in public. Maybe I need to watch more Housewives…

And people fall off in all disciplines, which is why I posted this here. It’s a disgrace, though, when the person who is supposed to be the more intelligent one of the pair acts like this person did, and in a public place. Makes all horsepeople look bad.

[Palm_Beach]

I wonder if belly kicking is part of The Social Climber’s Bible?? After all, she did write the book…

http://www.socialclimbersbible.com/authors/

Gosh, I just clicked around that website and I guess it’s supposed to be funny, but I think it’s sad. Really really sad. And I have to say I’m not surprised that she is a belly kicker. Elitism at it’s most honest.

[lilitiger2]

@Palm Beach

It’s OK to get upset and angry, it’s OK to express your anger, just not in a manner that causes injury…

yes. I posted in the H/J thread of this because I really think this is important, regardless of discipline. One has to learn to regulate frustration. Of course riding–life in general–is frustrating and of course everyone has moments where we want to kick someone in the stomach (or lower!) and yet…we don’t. As I posted there, I think this is one of the most important thing instructors can teach–the ability to regulate frustration/anger/disappointment. It’s not just horses that are frustrating–plenty of life circumstances are really, really awful, and the people who do well have some ability to manage their emotions. Those who are hostage to them are far more vulnerable (and easy to manipulate). Negotiating life well doesn’t depend o n everyone around us getting it perfectly. It depends on how well we manage what ever circumstances get thrown at us

[Bluey]

@lilitiger2

yes. I posted in the H/J thread of this because I really think this is important, regardless of discipline. One has to learn to regulate frustration. Of course riding–life in general–is frustrating and of course everyone has moments where we want to kick someone in the stomach (or lower!) and yet…we don’t. As I posted there, I think this is one of the most important thing instructors can teach–the ability to regulate frustration/anger/disappointment. It’s not just horses that are frustrating–plenty of life circumstances are really, really awful, and the people who do well have some ability to manage their emotions. Those who are hostage to them are far more vulnerable (and easy to manipulate). Negotiating life well doesn’t depend o n everyone around us getting it perfectly. It depends on how well we manage what ever circumstances get thrown at us

That.^^^

The criticism is way overblown, but that is the way things turn out sometimes when you do something that you really should not have done.

We can learn from such instances, or we can find a million excuses.
Seeing that video, one suggestion would be maybe try to find help, if flying off the handle is a bad habit someone fell into, or never learned any self-restrain.
We truly can’t or should not go thru life kicking out when frustrated, what an idea.

That was bad, no matter who it happened to, if the kick connected or not.
There is just not much that would excuse hauling off and kicking at a horse like the video shows here.

I hope all of us also learned from that situation.

[511]

Even if a horse pulled a knife on me I would not kick them like J.J. did,
It never has and never will make a behavior better and it destroys the delicate trust that a horse needs to have in his rider.
Jazz dragging the beautiful creature out by the bridle and the horses resistance made me cringe at what was in store for Joe Cool when they were out of sight.

This just proves that money can not buy class but it seems that it will buy judges and stewards downplaying such poor behavior. I can’t think a rider of limited means would not be facing suspension for such a display.

[Thylacine]

@Guilherme

I read the piece but the video was unclear. It surely did look that way. If the judge had a better angle then I understand that.

The conduct was inexcusable and was not excused. But maybe a rider who acts in an unprofessional manner and then immediately returns to normal behavior should get at least as much consideration as, say, the Menendez brothers.

G.

well at least we know whose on her legal team…

[findeight]

@5

Even if a horse pulled a knife on me I would not kick them like J.J. did,
It never has and never will make a behavior better and it destroys the delicate trust that a horse needs to have in his rider.
Jazz dragging the beautiful creature out by the bridle and the horses resistance made me cringe at what was in store for Joe Cool when they were out of sight.

This just proves that money can not buy class but it seems that it will buy judges and stewards downplaying such poor behavior. I can’t think a rider of limited means would not be facing suspension for such a display.

Just had to commnent here before this goes away. Nothing happened to Joe Cool when he left the ring, she got on, schooled 2 fences and went back in for an uneventful 2nd round. No excuses for what she did but it did not continue out of the ring and it’s pretty unfair to her trainers to infer they are chronic abusers off a 30 second video. No, the childish tantrum is all on her. Nobody here has downplayed that.

The judge did not downplay the behavior. He called to steward and informed them of the bad behavior, which is what is supposed to happen. It was the steward who declined to file an official report…maybe because they did not observe it, thus happened a few weeks ago, only the video is new. Due to public reaction, the USE(F) is now investigating- which it should have done in the first place. Maybe they can look into allowing a judge or other licensed official to report possible violations, not just the steward. Perhaps some good can come of this.

The hearing committee works within the rules when they investigate violations. If a rider in any tax bracket has a clean previous record, nobody was injured as a result and the horse shows no sign of physical abuse, it’s highly unlikely they would go right to the absolute most severe penalty available but woukdcstick to the disciplinary steps outlined in the rules, forfeiting any prizes won at the show, a fine and censure. And a record meaning subsequent violations will be harsher.

[lilitiger2]

@findeight

The hearing committee works within the rules when they investigate violations. If a rider in any tax bracket has a clean previous record, nobody was injured as a result and the horse shows no sign of physical abuse, it’s highly unlikely they would go right to the absolute most severe penalty available but woukdcstick to the disciplinary steps outlined in the rules, forfeiting any prizes won at the show, a fine and censure. And a record meaning subsequent violations will be harsher.

Fair enough. I hope they do take steps though. It’s a very good teaching moment. In the NFL they have “unsportsman like conduct” (nope, don’t get to kick your team mate in the stomach if they miss a pass) and I wonder how it would be viewed in tennis, if I kicked my doubles partner in the stomach when she missed an easy lob? I think some eyebrows would go up.

I think all the outcry really does reinforce the “don’t do that” aspect of this.

[Unfforgettable]

@Bluey

You mean, she was not trying to kick him, that is just the way she walks, jerking her leg up here and there?

The only reason it’s “poor sportsmanship” rather than “abuse” is because she missed.

[xeroxchick]

Go to Amazon and search her name for her book. Hmmmm. Anyway, from talking to a former employee it seems there might be some issues there.

[511]

Findeight- Thanks for the explaination. I did not know the proceedure.

[Palm_Beach]

@xeroxchick

Go to Amazon and search her name for her book. Hmmmm. Anyway, from talking to a former employee it seems there might be some issues there.

http://www.socialclimbersbible.com/

Here is Jazz Johnson-Merton’s Tip Of The Week #8 - “The only question you should ask when bending the rules to advance yourself is, WILL I GET CAUGHT?”

[Malda]

@Palm Beach

I wonder if belly kicking is part of The Social Climber’s Bible?? After all, she did write the book…

http://www.socialclimbersbible.com/authors/

Gosh, I just clicked around that website and I guess it’s supposed to be funny, but I think it’s sad. Really really sad. And I have to say I’m not surprised that she is a belly kicker. Elitism at it’s most honest.

Thanks for the link! It was good for a laugh. She’s the typical born-rich person who thinks the entire world envies her. Her vague “won at horse shows” and “created her own line of jewelry” (hired someone to do it for her then put her name on it) make her sound like a talentless commoner, I’m sure I have students from my low income schools who have more talent and intelligence than her.

I would like to be rich, but I would never be a social climber. I’m quite happy where I am socially.

[Thylacine]

@lilitiger2

Fair enough. I hope they do take steps though. It’s a very good teaching moment. In the NFL they have “unsportsman like conduct” (nope, don’t get to kick your team mate in the stomach if they miss a pass) and I wonder how it would be viewed in tennis, if I kicked my doubles partner in the stomach when she missed an easy lob? I think some eyebrows would go up.

I think all the outcry really does reinforce the “don’t do that” aspect of this.

you mean I can’t kick Nick Kygrious (sp?) in the guts, or the head, next time he chucks another tantie? (tantie = tantrum)

bugga. ah well such is life. but it would be sooo satisfying :yes: